Please, some advice for my Flame Angle!

[damian]

Hi,
I am new to this MB and I have been reading alot on here, sounds like you guys are really professional and know what you are talking about! So here it goes, I have a Flame Angle that is pretty sick. It eats well but has a cloudy eye, and maybe alittle ick (not sure)! Anyway I just got him last week and I acclimated him properly and added him to my tank and the next day I noticed his cloudy eye! After a few days I decided it would be best if I put him in a HT and medicate him. So under the advice of my local pet store I have started using Paragon as a treatment. I have also raised the temp of my HT to about 80 deg and lowered the salinity to about 1.018. I was wondering if you know much about this medication and if there is any other advice you could give me to help my fish get well!
Thanks

 

[beth]

Forget whatever medication that is, and don't raise the temp in your tank. If you can achieve a 78 temp, then that is ideal.
Good that the fish is in a hospital tank. Do a 50% water change of the hospital tank to dilute out that medication and, if you have carbon filtration, run that as well.
Then, over the next 1-1/2 days, drop your salinity in small increments down to 1.009. ensuring that your replacement water is of the same temp and ph as the hospital tank water. [Since the water is already started on hypo, you can do this a bit faster than what is normally recommended.] Dropping the salinity to anything above 1.009 is a waste of time for ick. Additionally, feed your fish garlic soaked food. If you can get zoe or zoecon, use this as well.
However, I must say, that you seem uncertain if you have ick. Ick appears as white salt-like dots on your fishes' body and fins, not necessarily all over, but usually there are many on the fish--it looks like the fish has been sprinkled with salt. Is that what you are dealing with??

 

[jimi]

If you are sure you have ick and chose to use hypo make sure you watch your ph closely. Be sure to buffer as needed as you add the fresh water. If he does not have ick clean water can sometimes clear up cloudy eyes. Do a water change as Beth said. Rushing to medicate probably has killed more fish in this hobby then it has saved.

 

[damian]

I would like to say first of all thanks for your help Jimi & Beth!! I am pretty sure that I am dealing with ick and popeye, my Flame has two or three small white spots on his body near the eye that is cloudy! I have noticed he is scratching since I have put him it the HT, on the side with the spots and cloudy eye! His eye seems to have a cloudy haze over it with maybe a little liquid behind it! Tonight I plan to put you alls advice into action, do you really think that I sould stop medicating? Will garlic oil form a garlic capsul do? Will this turn my fish away form the food he likes?
Thanks for all your help!!
[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: damian ]

 

[beth]

Yes, forget that medication. Use the garlic from the capsule; if the fish don't like it, then cut back on the garlic, but most fish accept garlic soaked food fine.

 

[damian]

hey I was just wondering, if the life cycle of ich is 23 days then should I remove my (false)purcula clown also even though it does not have the symptoms of ich or should I leave him in the main tank for the 23 days as long as he doesn't show symptoms?

 

[damian]

hey, just wondering but my Flames eye seems to be worse and the ick is still there but he still eats and swims okay.Is there anything that I should do for his eye or should I just let it be for now?

 

[beth]

How are you coming along with reducing the salinity? Is the fish's eye still just cloudy, or is it also swollen now?
As for the clown, yes it would be best to treat him with hyposalinity too, as he's been exposed---all fish should be treated. However, if you are dealing with an eye infection on the flame that is separate and apart from the ick problem [sometimes fish get cloudy eyes just from ick] then you may need to supply the flame in the hospital tank with antibotic medication therapy, in which case you don't really want to expose the other fish to that therapy.
Lets get the water down to 1.009 and see if things don't start improving with the flame before deciding what to do about other fish. In the meantime, you can feed your other fish garlic soaked food as well.
You may want to see if you can get Maracyn2--in the event that you will have to treat the fish for an eye infection.
[ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[damian]

Thanks for your advice so far Beth!! I have obtained some Zoe and just started using that along with the garlic! By tonight I should have the salinity down to 1.009 and the temp is about 79 deg. I have been buffering with seachem marine buffer with every addition of freshwater! My Flames eye is alittle swollen but no worse than it has been from the begining! As for my clown it seems as though you are saying not to put him in until we find out if we should treat with Maracyn 2, right or wrong? Will ich not run its life cycle and die out if the clown is still in the main tank and doesn't show symtoms of infection?
Thank again and any advice will be appriciated!!
[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: damian ]
[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: damian ]
[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: damian ]

 

[beth]

Ok, here is the problem. You have 2 fish, right? One you are certain is already infested with ick because you can see it, and this same fish has cloudy eye. The other fish, a perc, has no symptoms, but has been exposed to ick. Is that right?
If this is the case, the best thing to do is to treat all fish exposed to ick, whether they have symptoms or not with hyposalinity. However, you also have a fish that not only has ick, but cloudy eye. If you treat your hospital tank with Maracyn2 for the cloudy eye fish, then the perc would also be exposed to this medication. I'm conservative and feel that you shouldn't use antibotics on fish unless they need it.
Is the cloudy eye worse? Swollen?? Frequenlty fish with ick will get cloudy eye, and this will disappear on its own once the ick is erradicated. If you feel this is the case, then treat both fish with hypo, and leave out the Maracyn2 for now.

 

[damian]

hey,
Just want to say thank you for helping so far!! My Flame is looking better the ick has fallen off and his eye is still a little swollen but not very cloudy anymore, although he eats well and swims normal he does have a bit of a whitish looking film when the light hits him just right! What could this be? Will hypo cause this problem or is it something to worry about? Should I start treating with maracyn 2 now?
Any advice would be nice!! Thanks

 

[damian]

hey, just haven't gotten a reply since my last post just wondering what is should do! Things are about the same no major change!
Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[jimi]

Sounds like your doing fine. I would not add any antibiotics right now unless the condition gets worse. You can do partial water changes along the line to keep conditions at their best.

 

[damian]

Hey, just wanted to say that the Flame is doing great, but now that I know that I will not have to treat the Flame with Maracyn 2 I need to get my percula out of my main tank and treat him with hypo also and to let the ich cycle out of my tank! My question is what is me Max amout of time that my Flame can stay in hypo b/c if I put my percula in today then it will be another 3 weeks added to the 1 1/2 weeks that my Flame has already been in hypo, is this to long? Will the ich die out in my display with LR, LS, Corals and inverts in 21-23 days? I really need some info on this matter so if Beth or anyone else has any info let me know ASAP!
Thanks for all help offered!!

 

[beth]

You cannot just put your clownfish in the hyposalinity tank. Fish undergoing hyposalinity need to have at least 2 days of gradual reduction of saline levels, not just subjected to hypo cold turkey. The clownfish will die if you do that. All fish in the ick tank, should have been placed at the same time in the tank that you were doing hypo with, so that they could acclimate to the slow reduction in salinity.
Is the percula showing signs of ick now? Do you have another tank that you can use for 2 days while you acclimate the clownfish to hypo? If so, set the 2nd tank up and use it for only 2 days, acclimating the clown to hypo. Then, when you bring the clownfish's tank down to 1.009, you can move him over to the tank with the flame. Again, you will have to keep the fish in this tank under hyposalinity for 3 full weeks [starting over with the flame, bascially]. Then, if all is well, over the course of a week you can bring the salinity in the hospital tank back up gradually to normal saline levels.
Alternatively, you can maintain 2 hospital tanks, one for the flame and the other for the clownfish. However, your main tank should remain fish-free for a month, so you cannot return the flame to the tank until month after all fish have been removed from the main tank. All fish need to be treated with hyposalinity to treat the ick, and you main tank must remain fish-free for 1 month.
Meantime, in the absense of any fish in your main tank, the ick will die out. Ick life cycle is approx 3 weeks, and ick needs a fish host to survive. Without any fish in your main tank for a month, all ick will be gone.
[ August 26, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[totalxtreme1]

I have been reading the post about the ick and this matter. But not everybody can afford to set up a hospital tank nor have the time. I am one of those people and Im sure there are more here as well. I have inverts and lr as well as ls and some corals. Now your saying the only thing I can do is to set up a hospital tank in order to cure this ich problem? Is there meds that i can use? The hyposalinity will kill mostly all in the tank so thats out as you know better then I so whats next? Sometimes it always sounds easier then actually doing for some. Any help would be aprreciated. Thanks.

 

[beth]

The only thing that you can do in your particular tank is feed your fish garlic soaked food, and hope for the best. Are you saying you have ick? What's the situation?
Hospital tanks can be setup pretty cheaply.
If hobbyist chose to keep Live Sand, Live Rock, inverts, AND fish, then they must consider a separate hosptial/quarantine tank as a necesity, just as you consider your filtration or lighting for your tank as a necessity. You will kill off your tank completely if you use medications or hypo.
Now, if you had a fish only system, then it would be another story. Why do you think reef keepers have few fish, if any, in their tanks??

 

[damian]

Hey,
I just want to say thanks to everyone for their continued support though my Flames sickness! I was just wondering my Flame has been in hypo since 8/16 and i was thinking about starting to raise the salinity back to original on Monday and having completely done by next Friday, does this sound okay? The Flame is doing really well and he is very active and lively!
Thanks for all replies!!

 

[beth]

Ok, let me repeat. Hyposalinity must be maintained for a min of 3 wks AFTER all signs of ick on your fish have disappeared. You are not there yet. After the 3 weeks, then you can slowly raise the salinity to normal levels over the course of another wk.
[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Beth ]

 

[damian]

Hey,
I just want to say thanks for all the advice, everyone has been great!! But, my flame angle is showing signs of something different now! He seems to be hiding alot here lately and tonight i finally got a good look at him and i notice that he looks very thin!! You can almost see his bones in the middle of his body running horizontally! Could this fish have been spayed with syonide(sp)?? I have heard that it will cause these symptoms and then the fish will die!! I don't know what may be wrong i feed once a day just like always and he is still in the HT and i have started slowly raising the SG getting him ready for the display again! Does anyone know of anything that could cause this?? If so please give me some advice on what to do if i can do anything!!
Thanks again for your help!!
Damian