plumbing for multiple tanks
- Thread starter reeferjoe
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Just a few questions why five tanks? What size tanks? What system or multiple systems are you planning for the tanks ? Why do you want to have them all connected? Remember that when you interconnect you run the risk of cross contamination
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2904733
Best thing to do is to have them all drilled and drain into one larger sump and then one larger return pump T off multiple times to all the tanks.
I think there will be serious issues with supplying a good return to each tank that way
http:///forum/post/2904733
Best thing to do is to have them all drilled and drain into one larger sump and then one larger return pump T off multiple times to all the tanks.
I think there will be serious issues with supplying a good return to each tank that way
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2904802
I think there will be serious issues with supplying a good return to each tank that way
Yep, yep - you definitely will have to include a shut-off valve on each return line so that you can regulate the volume of return to all tanks. also be aware that it doesn't take much to cause overflows with this type of system - snails in overflows or return lines in particular must be guarded against
.
http:///forum/post/2904802
I think there will be serious issues with supplying a good return to each tank that way
Yep, yep - you definitely will have to include a shut-off valve on each return line so that you can regulate the volume of return to all tanks. also be aware that it doesn't take much to cause overflows with this type of system - snails in overflows or return lines in particular must be guarded against
matt b
Active Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2904822
Yep, yep - you definitely will have to include a shut-off valve on each return line so that you can regulate the volume of return to all tanks. also be aware that it doesn't take much to cause overflows with this type of system - snails in overflows or return lines in particular must be guarded against
.
Sorry, I figured it would be obvious that there need to be a ball valve on each return line. And what do you mean it would be easy to overflow???? Of course snails could get stuck and cause a overflow. You have that problem with every overflow. That is why you put strainers in the drains.
http:///forum/post/2904822
Yep, yep - you definitely will have to include a shut-off valve on each return line so that you can regulate the volume of return to all tanks. also be aware that it doesn't take much to cause overflows with this type of system - snails in overflows or return lines in particular must be guarded against
Sorry, I figured it would be obvious that there need to be a ball valve on each return line. And what do you mean it would be easy to overflow???? Of course snails could get stuck and cause a overflow. You have that problem with every overflow. That is why you put strainers in the drains.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
I cannot answer for Randy. My own thoughts are simply this. If you are going to as you say obviously put in ball valves to control the flow into each of your multiple tanks. It also has to be obvious that the restriction of flow will raise the level of water in your sump. The more valves with out a full flow through them will have more places with in them for things to impact the valve and cause an overflow.
Also the amount of restriction you will have in order to get water to each tank through a single feed system will diminish your surface skimming rate
Also the amount of restriction you will have in order to get water to each tank through a single feed system will diminish your surface skimming rate
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/2904977
Sorry, I figured it would be obvious that there need to be a ball valve on each return line. And what do you mean it would be easy to overflow???? Of course snails could get stuck and cause a overflow. You have that problem with every overflow. That is why you put strainers in the drains.
Not trying to be critical Matt, just figured it should be pointed out - since reefjoe was posting for the very first time, don't know what he knows or doesn't know - just as it is obvious to you that ball valves and strainers in the drains are implied, it may not be obvious to him. Also, in multi-plumed tanks like this, I've seen snails in the return cause a restriction of flow and overflow sumps. Again, just pointing out possibilites.
http:///forum/post/2904977
Sorry, I figured it would be obvious that there need to be a ball valve on each return line. And what do you mean it would be easy to overflow???? Of course snails could get stuck and cause a overflow. You have that problem with every overflow. That is why you put strainers in the drains.
Not trying to be critical Matt, just figured it should be pointed out - since reefjoe was posting for the very first time, don't know what he knows or doesn't know - just as it is obvious to you that ball valves and strainers in the drains are implied, it may not be obvious to him. Also, in multi-plumed tanks like this, I've seen snails in the return cause a restriction of flow and overflow sumps. Again, just pointing out possibilites.
neoreef
Member
All your concerns are good ones, if these are going to be reef tanks.
If you plan to raise fish in these tanks, then there are no snails and no concerns. Plumb your return through a central manifold, have a pressure relief valve T'd off the return before the manifold, going back to the sump. Remember, for a fish only tank or tanks, flow is less of a concern than for coral containing tanks. You don't need the monster pumps, hundreds of gallons per hour, etc.that you may need for a reef tank. From the manifold, plumb the return to each tank, including a ball or gate valve. Have the overflow pipes be bigger than the return size, and you are good to go.
If you plan to raise fish in these tanks, then there are no snails and no concerns. Plumb your return through a central manifold, have a pressure relief valve T'd off the return before the manifold, going back to the sump. Remember, for a fish only tank or tanks, flow is less of a concern than for coral containing tanks. You don't need the monster pumps, hundreds of gallons per hour, etc.that you may need for a reef tank. From the manifold, plumb the return to each tank, including a ball or gate valve. Have the overflow pipes be bigger than the return size, and you are good to go.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
As I am always looking to learn, I have a few questions if you don’t mind. You state that if there are not snails there are no concerns. Are you saying that snails are the only things that will impact the valves? What is the purpose of a pressure relieve valve in this application? Our ability to maintain a fish only tank or reef system is predicated on bio filtration. That filtration is achieved through water movement how would that be of a lesser concern in a fish only tank? Monster pumps and hundreds of gallons of flow through these pumps are also predicated on the size of tank you have and not necessarily the system you are trying to keep. Have the over flow pipes bigger then the return size? You are only going to over flow at the rate you are putting water back into your tank, i dont understand the reason for bigger over flow pipes
ameno
Active Member
I have to agree with you on this one Joe. A pressure relief valve will not work.
you have at least five open ended lines, there should be very little pressure build up in the line, just velocity, if a line gets pluged the velocity will increase in the other lines. You want to have a bigger line off the pump stay that size for the header and reduce at each branch, this will help keep a more even flow. I would probably have a valve at each branch just to have some control over the flow to each tank.
As far as the overflow issue it's not that common to plug a discharge line from a pump, normaly it would be the suction side. If you design the system as if it's one big tank and leave enough room in the sump for back flow, you should be fine.
you have at least five open ended lines, there should be very little pressure build up in the line, just velocity, if a line gets pluged the velocity will increase in the other lines. You want to have a bigger line off the pump stay that size for the header and reduce at each branch, this will help keep a more even flow. I would probably have a valve at each branch just to have some control over the flow to each tank.
As far as the overflow issue it's not that common to plug a discharge line from a pump, normaly it would be the suction side. If you design the system as if it's one big tank and leave enough room in the sump for back flow, you should be fine.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by ameno
http:///forum/post/2911986
I have to agree with you on this one Joe. A pressure relief valve will not work.
you have at least five open ended lines, there should be very little pressure build up in the line, just velocity, if a line gets pluged the velocity will increase in the other lines. You want to have a bigger line off the pump stay that size for the header and reduce at each branch, this will help keep a more even flow. I would probably have a valve at each branch just to have some control over the flow to each tank.
As far as the overflow issue it's not that common to plug a discharge line from a pump, normaly it would be the suction side. If you design the system as if it's one big tank and leave enough room in the sump for back flow, you should be fine.
I just think that the person attempting this type of set up is going to have a very hard time regulating flow to each tank. IMO it not like one big tank it is in fact 5 individual tanks tied into one feed. Even if his piping was perfectly level with his tanks he would have to restrict his initial tank in the loop to allow water to flow to the next valve and then restrict the next valve and so on. Add to that an increased flow problem if his sump is under the tank. His water is going to gravity feed back into his sump he will then have to attempt of restrict the flow to the point where he can some how get equal over flow from each tank. A very very daunting task IMO
http:///forum/post/2911986
I have to agree with you on this one Joe. A pressure relief valve will not work.
you have at least five open ended lines, there should be very little pressure build up in the line, just velocity, if a line gets pluged the velocity will increase in the other lines. You want to have a bigger line off the pump stay that size for the header and reduce at each branch, this will help keep a more even flow. I would probably have a valve at each branch just to have some control over the flow to each tank.
As far as the overflow issue it's not that common to plug a discharge line from a pump, normaly it would be the suction side. If you design the system as if it's one big tank and leave enough room in the sump for back flow, you should be fine.
I just think that the person attempting this type of set up is going to have a very hard time regulating flow to each tank. IMO it not like one big tank it is in fact 5 individual tanks tied into one feed. Even if his piping was perfectly level with his tanks he would have to restrict his initial tank in the loop to allow water to flow to the next valve and then restrict the next valve and so on. Add to that an increased flow problem if his sump is under the tank. His water is going to gravity feed back into his sump he will then have to attempt of restrict the flow to the point where he can some how get equal over flow from each tank. A very very daunting task IMO
ameno
Active Member
(If you design the system as if it's one big tank and leave enough room in the sump for back flow, you should be fine.)
This statement was ment only for designing the backflow if the pump goes down.
I understand your logic with the discharge.
I will try and explain better what I'm talking about, liquid will flow to the areas of least resistance. so if you have a large enough header the header will be the least resistance and water will flow thru the header first, once it starts going thru even one of the branches it will start to meet resistance and cause it to flow thru the other branches. The best set-up would be to have this supply pipe enter the header around the center.
As I said before, I would still use a ball valve at each branch just to tweek the flows if needed for each tank. And have one valve close to the pump.
This statement was ment only for designing the backflow if the pump goes down.
I understand your logic with the discharge.
I will try and explain better what I'm talking about, liquid will flow to the areas of least resistance. so if you have a large enough header the header will be the least resistance and water will flow thru the header first, once it starts going thru even one of the branches it will start to meet resistance and cause it to flow thru the other branches. The best set-up would be to have this supply pipe enter the header around the center.
As I said before, I would still use a ball valve at each branch just to tweek the flows if needed for each tank. And have one valve close to the pump.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2912019
I just think that the person attempting this type of set up is going to have a very hard time regulating flow to each tank. IMO it not like one big tank it is in fact 5 individual tanks tied into one feed. Even if his piping was perfectly level with his tanks he would have to restrict his initial tank in the loop to allow water to flow to the next valve and then restrict the next valve and so on. Add to that an increased flow problem if his sump is under the tank. His water is going to gravity feed back into his sump he will then have to attempt of restrict the flow to the point where he can some how get equal over flow from each tank. A very very daunting task IMO
Actually all good concerns, and like you Joe, I think that the person designing, building this system needs to be aware of all the issues. However, I can also tell you that it can be done - our local LFS has a 6 tank, one sump system designed by a local reefer along very similar lines. He has had to deal with each and everyone of the issues described above in his system, including snails in the outflow. The system does work, however it does require constant surveilance (sp - disclaimer: no, I dont teach spelling - get over it) and maintanance (sp). That said, Joe how come you haven't given me any input on my multiteired stand build thread or my remote DSB thread
http:///forum/post/2912019
I just think that the person attempting this type of set up is going to have a very hard time regulating flow to each tank. IMO it not like one big tank it is in fact 5 individual tanks tied into one feed. Even if his piping was perfectly level with his tanks he would have to restrict his initial tank in the loop to allow water to flow to the next valve and then restrict the next valve and so on. Add to that an increased flow problem if his sump is under the tank. His water is going to gravity feed back into his sump he will then have to attempt of restrict the flow to the point where he can some how get equal over flow from each tank. A very very daunting task IMO
Actually all good concerns, and like you Joe, I think that the person designing, building this system needs to be aware of all the issues. However, I can also tell you that it can be done - our local LFS has a 6 tank, one sump system designed by a local reefer along very similar lines. He has had to deal with each and everyone of the issues described above in his system, including snails in the outflow. The system does work, however it does require constant surveilance (sp - disclaimer: no, I dont teach spelling - get over it) and maintanance (sp). That said, Joe how come you haven't given me any input on my multiteired stand build thread or my remote DSB thread
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2912039
Actually all good concerns, and like you Joe, I think that the person designing, building this system needs to be aware of all the issues. However, I can also tell you that it can be done - our local LFS has a 6 tank, one sump system designed by a local reefer along very similar lines. He has had to deal with each and everyone of the issues described above in his system, including snails in the outflow. The system does work, however it does require constant surveilance (sp - disclaimer: no, I dont teach spelling - get over it) and maintanance (sp). That said, Joe how come you haven't given me any input on my multiteired stand build thread or my remote DSB thread
Sorry Randy my friend I really did not see the threads. (old age you know ) will get them a look today
http:///forum/post/2912039
Actually all good concerns, and like you Joe, I think that the person designing, building this system needs to be aware of all the issues. However, I can also tell you that it can be done - our local LFS has a 6 tank, one sump system designed by a local reefer along very similar lines. He has had to deal with each and everyone of the issues described above in his system, including snails in the outflow. The system does work, however it does require constant surveilance (sp - disclaimer: no, I dont teach spelling - get over it) and maintanance (sp). That said, Joe how come you haven't given me any input on my multiteired stand build thread or my remote DSB thread
Sorry Randy my friend I really did not see the threads. (old age you know ) will get them a look today
zelfin
Member
Don't mean to high jack your thread.
But i am thinking a similiar thing only something along the lines of chaining the tanks together. So it will go from tank #1 to tank #2, then to the sump/refugium.
Is it possible to use an overflow like connection between tanks 1 and 2? working like an overflow box does? With the tanks being level having a sealed pipe between them so the water flows from one to the other. So basically Tank #2 will have the overflow and tank #1 will have the return and something between them to connect those tanks.
But i am thinking a similiar thing only something along the lines of chaining the tanks together. So it will go from tank #1 to tank #2, then to the sump/refugium.
Is it possible to use an overflow like connection between tanks 1 and 2? working like an overflow box does? With the tanks being level having a sealed pipe between them so the water flows from one to the other. So basically Tank #2 will have the overflow and tank #1 will have the return and something between them to connect those tanks.
neoreef
Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2910402
As I am always looking to learn, I have a few questions if you don’t mind. You state that if there are not snails there are no concerns. Are you saying that snails are the only things that will impact the valves? What is the purpose of a pressure relieve valve in this application? Our ability to maintain a fish only tank or reef system is predicated on bio filtration. That filtration is achieved through water movement how would that be of a lesser concern in a fish only tank? Monster pumps and hundreds of gallons of flow through these pumps are also predicated on the size of tank you have and not necessarily the system you are trying to keep. Have the over flow pipes bigger then the return size? You are only going to over flow at the rate you are putting water back into your tank, i dont understand the reason for bigger over flow pipes
Sorry I am 6 months late answering... Snails will not impact valves unless the valves are on the overflow/drain which I would never recommend putting valves there. Snails can clog any drain whether there are valves on it or not. No snails, no problem. Of course, hair algae can also clog an overflow, as can other things, but nothing so unpredictable as a snail.
Pressure relief valve is to preserve the life of the pump. If you have a pump that is always experiencing back pressure, it will die sooner.
Biofiltration in fish only systems is primarily located in the sump. Plenty of water flow there, certainly enough. Fish only systems can use drip wet/dry filtration, and flow is rarely an issue.
Having the overflow pipes bigger than the return size allows for wiggle room. Gravity powered draining may be slower than the rate of flow into the tank that you are achieving with your monster pump. You want the water exiting the tank to go at the same rate as the water entering the tank. If it is slower, the tank will overflow. A larger diameter pipe allows more water to exit in a given amount of time. Faster.
http:///forum/post/2910402
As I am always looking to learn, I have a few questions if you don’t mind. You state that if there are not snails there are no concerns. Are you saying that snails are the only things that will impact the valves? What is the purpose of a pressure relieve valve in this application? Our ability to maintain a fish only tank or reef system is predicated on bio filtration. That filtration is achieved through water movement how would that be of a lesser concern in a fish only tank? Monster pumps and hundreds of gallons of flow through these pumps are also predicated on the size of tank you have and not necessarily the system you are trying to keep. Have the over flow pipes bigger then the return size? You are only going to over flow at the rate you are putting water back into your tank, i dont understand the reason for bigger over flow pipes
Sorry I am 6 months late answering... Snails will not impact valves unless the valves are on the overflow/drain which I would never recommend putting valves there. Snails can clog any drain whether there are valves on it or not. No snails, no problem. Of course, hair algae can also clog an overflow, as can other things, but nothing so unpredictable as a snail.
Pressure relief valve is to preserve the life of the pump. If you have a pump that is always experiencing back pressure, it will die sooner.
Biofiltration in fish only systems is primarily located in the sump. Plenty of water flow there, certainly enough. Fish only systems can use drip wet/dry filtration, and flow is rarely an issue.
Having the overflow pipes bigger than the return size allows for wiggle room. Gravity powered draining may be slower than the rate of flow into the tank that you are achieving with your monster pump. You want the water exiting the tank to go at the same rate as the water entering the tank. If it is slower, the tank will overflow. A larger diameter pipe allows more water to exit in a given amount of time. Faster.
i<3reefs
Member
In the past I visited an aquarium store setup like this. He had drilled the back of each tank, and they drained into a piece of large pvc downhill to a sump. The sump had a return pump in it that ran the water back up to the top of each aquarium via a spray bar. This was a long time ago, he had his large pvc dump the water on to a spaghetti strainer full of bioballs.
He ran 8 20 gallon longs into one sump, and it worked perfectly fine.
The other way is to build a stand with them stacking on top of each other. You can drill your tanks in front for easier plumbing management. Each tank runs an overflow into the next tank, and the bottom tank runs a return pump to the top. Bottom tank sets up to be a refugium. Top tanks can be glass bottom. This method is pretty easy to light with retrofit kits, and allows you to setup different watts per gallon per tank. Using extra powerheads in each tank to establish optimal flow for whatever your wanting to farm. I've seen this method online, and once knew a guy who had this in his reef room setup for frag growth.
He ran 8 20 gallon longs into one sump, and it worked perfectly fine.
The other way is to build a stand with them stacking on top of each other. You can drill your tanks in front for easier plumbing management. Each tank runs an overflow into the next tank, and the bottom tank runs a return pump to the top. Bottom tank sets up to be a refugium. Top tanks can be glass bottom. This method is pretty easy to light with retrofit kits, and allows you to setup different watts per gallon per tank. Using extra powerheads in each tank to establish optimal flow for whatever your wanting to farm. I've seen this method online, and once knew a guy who had this in his reef room setup for frag growth.