Politicians are People, too!

[darthtang aw]

They can't get proof because Romney won't release any tax returns except the last two years.  You know, the returns that have nothing to do with his earnings at Bain capital, since he claims he left that place in '99.  
You really need to do some research on how banks work in the Caymans.  They make those famous Swiss Banks look like piggy banks you stick on a shelf.
No other Presidential candidate in the history of the presidency has ever released more than the last two years.
Obama didn't release his college transcripts and records, Bush had to though....hypocrite much?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483364
No other Presidential candidate in the history of the presidency has ever released more than the last two years.
Obama didn't release his college transcripts and records, Bush had to though....hypocrite much?
There's been no other Presidential candidate like Romney who made millions (or is it billions) with a company scrutinized for their business practices. Obama had no problem disclosing his returns for how many years? Oh wait, you want to criticize him for the REAL important stuff. Like what kind of grades he made while going to Columbia, or better yet, a birth certificate. Talk about skewed priorities.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483365
There's been no other Presidential candidate like Romney who made millions (or is it billions) with a company scrutinized for their business practices. Obama had no problem disclosing his returns for how many years? Oh wait, you want to criticize him for the REAL important stuff. Like what kind of grades he made while going to Columbia, or better yet, a birth certificate. Talk about skewed priorities.
Please site a link or some evidence where Bain capital has been investigated over their business practices. Of course there is a president who's business dealings did lead to 9 of his fellow investors in the project doing jail time. Can you name him?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483399
Please site a link or some evidence where Bain capital has been investigated over their business practices. Of course there is a president who's business dealings did lead to 9 of his fellow investors in the project doing jail time. Can you name him?
I didn't say they were investigated. I said they were scrutinized for their business practices, and how they buy strugglling companies for a nickel on the dollar, sell of any non-essential assets for a profit to streamline the organization to where they are barely sustainable, eliminate numerous jobs to help with lowering overhead, then sell the remains to the highest bidder for even more profit. It's a win/win solution for them every time. Granted, some of these businesses do end up running and remain profitable, but the sacrifices are that numerous jobs are lost to sustain that profitability. That's the part they don't tell you about.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483432
I didn't say they were investigated. I said they were scrutinized for their business practices, and how they buy strugglling companies for a nickel on the dollar, sell of any non-essential assets for a profit to streamline the organization to where they are barely sustainable, eliminate numerous jobs to help with lowering overhead, then sell the remains to the highest bidder for even more profit. It's a win/win solution for them every time. Granted, some of these businesses do end up running and remain profitable, but the sacrifices are that numerous jobs are lost to sustain that profitability. That's the part they don't tell you about.
When were they scrutinized? Bain has turned around 78% of the companies they invested in. That is a pretty outstanding record. Romney was hired to do a job and excelled at it. It's a shame we can't say the same about 0bama.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483440
When were they scrutinized? Bain has turned around 78% of the companies they invested in. That is a pretty outstanding record. Romney was hired to do a job and excelled at it. It's a shame we can't say the same about 0bama.
At what cost? How many jobs were lost to make those businesses profitable? It's all a numbers games to these equity firms. Employees arte just monetary figures that can be discarded at will to improve the overall bottom line. I've seen first-hand what an equity firm does to a large company. It's great for those that ducked and covered, and were able to keep their jobs after the fallout. But those let go usually get little or no separation packages.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483441
At what cost? How many jobs were lost to make those businesses profitable? It's all a numbers games to these equity firms. Employees arte just monetary figures that can be discarded at will to improve the overall bottom line. I've seen first-hand what an equity firm does to a large company. It's great for those that ducked and covered, and were able to keep their jobs after the fallout. But those let go usually get little or no separation packages.
You can't be that stupid. "How many jobs were lost to make those companies profitable?" Seriously? If the company isn't profitable it closes down and all jobs are lost. Good Gawd!!!

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483449
You can't be that stupid. "How many jobs were lost to make those companies profitable?" Seriously? If the company isn't profitable it closes down and all jobs are lost. Good Gawd!!!
Again, you don't undersdtand how equity firms pick these vulnerable businesses. Many of them are surviving, just not making the large profits that you'd like to see. Equity firm comes in and tells upper management (you know, the one's that get the bulk of the profits), that they can provide them capital to strengthen their bottomline, at the same time, streamline processes and trim waste, then they can sell them off to another like organization (usually a competitor wanting to strengthen their customer base), and they reap the benefits of the gains in the form of cash bonuses or stock options from the newly-formed 'company'. Meanwhile, the worker bees get picked off by the new parent company because they already have personnel to do their jobs.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483460
Again, you don't undersdtand how equity firms pick these vulnerable businesses. Many of them are surviving, just not making the large profits that you'd like to see. Equity firm comes in and tells upper management (you know, the one's that get the bulk of the profits), that they can provide them capital to strengthen their bottomline, at the same time, streamline processes and trim waste, then they can sell them off to another like organization (usually a competitor wanting to strengthen their customer base), and they reap the benefits of the gains in the form of cash bonuses or stock options from the newly-formed 'company'. Meanwhile, the worker bees get picked off by the new parent company because they already have personnel to do their jobs.
The world according to Bionic :LOL! A business isn't going to hand over control unless it's a last ditch measure. Maybe you would give up control of a business you spent years to build because you want MORE profits but most people wouldn't dream of it.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483473
The world according to Bionic :LOL! A business isn't going to hand over control unless it's a last ditch measure. Maybe you would give up control of a business you spent years to build because you want MORE profits but most people wouldn't dream of it.
I'll give you an example. A friend of mine works for a company that used to be a subsidiary of Alcoa Aluminum. A few years ago, when Alcoa's bottom line was going down, they wanted to sell off all their subusidiary companies that weren't directly tied to aluminum production. His company was one of those subsidiaries. Alcoa tried for 3 years to sell them off, with no takers. Finally, an equity firmn based in California showed interest, and when the 'sale' was done, Alcoa PAID this equity firm 180 MILLION to take them off their hands. It was more cost effective for Alcoa to pay someone to take the subsidiary, than it was to just shutter the operation altogether (something to do with taxes and stock valuations). This equity firm took them over, closed half their manufacturing plants, took the machinery and materials (copper wiring for example) and sold it off for a hefty profits. Cut the 15,000 person staff by 30%, then 2 years later sold it to a Finnish competitor for a nice profit, and received 5% stock options from this comapny to boot. His company wasn't going under, they jsut weren't as profitable as Alcoa would've liked, and it they didn't fit into the Alcoa business model. He told me the other day that their profits were still around the same as they were when they were under Alcoa. The CEo's are fat dumb and happy because they got a nice kickback during all the transactions. My buddy? Hasn't had a raise in 5 years. But by your logic, I guess he's supposed to be fortunate that he just has a job to go to.

 

[darthtang aw]

One of Bain's earliest and most notable venture investments was in Staples, Inc., the office supply retailer. The funding enabled Staples to expand from one store in 1986 to over 2000 stores in 2011. How many jobs did that create?
In 1994, Bain invested in Steel Dynamics, based in Fort Wayne, Indiana, a prosperous steel company that has grown to the fifth largest in the U.S.A, employs about 6,100 people, and produces carbon steel products with 2010 revenues of $6.3 billion on steel shipments of 5.3 million tons.
HD Supply, Burlington Coat Factory, Burger King, Dominoes, Dunkin Donuts, Baskin Robbins, Sealy, Experian, Artisan Entertainment,....and the list goes on and on......Jobs, Businesses thriving and growing.
My Brother works for one of these investment firms. He is the guy that comes in and shows where the company is running inefficient and loosing money. Without these guys most companies will eventually fold. Yes, my brother does have to ax some jobs, but by doing so he saves a greater majority of the jobs.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483480
One of Bain's earliest and most notable venture investments was in Staples, Inc., the office supply retailer. The funding enabled Staples to expand from one store in 1986 to over 2000 stores in 2011. How many jobs did that create?
In 1994, Bain invested in Steel Dynamics, based in Fort Wayne, Indiana, a prosperous steel company that has grown to the fifth largest in the U.S.A, employs about 6,100 people, and produces carbon steel products with 2010 revenues of $6.3 billion on steel shipments of 5.3 million tons.
HD Supply, Burlington Coat Factory, Burger King, Dominoes, Dunkin Donuts, Baskin Robbins, Sealy, Experian, Artisan Entertainment,....and the list goes on and on......Jobs, Businesses thriving and growing.
My Brother works for one of these investment firms. He is the guy that comes in and shows where the company is running inefficient and loosing money. Without these guys most companies will eventually fold. Yes, my brother does have to ax some jobs, but by doing so he saves a greater majority of the jobs.
And for every success story, there's another 10 in the background that failed.

 

[darthtang aw]

And for every success story, there's another 10 in the background that failed.
So Bain capital has a 90% failure record? doesn't seem very good for business.....I love how you just throw out stuff.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483478
I'll give you an example. A friend of mine works for a company that used to be a subsidiary of Alcoa Aluminum. A few years ago, when Alcoa's bottom line was going down, they wanted to sell off all their subusidiary companies that weren't directly tied to aluminum production. His company was one of those subsidiaries. Alcoa tried for 3 years to sell them off, with no takers. Finally, an equity firmn based in California showed interest, and when the 'sale' was done, Alcoa PAID this equity firm 180 MILLION to take them off their hands. It was more cost effective for Alcoa to pay someone to take the subsidiary, than it was to just shutter the operation altogether (something to do with taxes and stock valuations). This equity firm took them over, closed half their manufacturing plants, took the machinery and materials (copper wiring for example) and sold it off for a hefty profits. Cut the 15,000 person staff by 30%, then 2 years later sold it to a Finnish competitor for a nice profit, and received 5% stock options from this comapny to boot. His company wasn't going under, they jsut weren't as profitable as Alcoa would've liked, and it they didn't fit into the Alcoa business model. He told me the other day that their profits were still around the same as they were when they were under Alcoa. The CEo's are fat dumb and happy because they got a nice kickback during all the transactions. My buddy? Hasn't had a raise in 5 years. But by your logic, I guess he's supposed to be fortunate that he just has a job to go to.
So what you are saying is it was wrong for an equity firm to shut down a company that was so unprofitable the parent corporation had to pay someone to take it over? That is insane. Just because the equity firm had the time and expertise to liquidate the company in a way that turned a profit doesn't change the fact THE COMPANY WASN'T COVERING IT'S EXPENSES SO IT CLOSED.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483487
And for every success story, there's another 10 in the background that failed.
For Bain it's for every failure there are 7.8 successes. See how good Romney was at his job?. I can send you a Mitt 2012 sticker for your car if you wish

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483506
So what you are saying is it was wrong for an equity firm to shut down a company that was so unprofitable the parent corporation had to pay someone to take it over? That is insane. Just because the equity firm had the time and expertise to liquidate the company in a way that turned a profit doesn't change the fact THE COMPANY WASN'T COVERING IT'S EXPENSES SO IT CLOSED.
The company wasn't unprofitable. They were making money. Alcoa was diversifying their subsidiary and they didn't fit into their future business model. Alcoa was tanking at the time, and they were trying to dump all non-essential businesses to boost their own bottom line. They were in the misdt of a hostile takeover, and didn't want that to happen. The owners of his comapny were actually looking for capital to buy themselves out, but Alcoa wouldn't let them. Pretty insulting when you tell your parent company you want to run on your own, and instead of paying them the 180 million, they paid some equity firm the money. Ther was some kind of backdoor deal that was going on between the equity firm and Alcoa, they just didn't know what it was.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483507
For Bain it's for every failure there are 7.8 successes. See how good Romney was at his job?. I can send you a Mitt 2012 sticker for your car if you wish
Romney supposedly left Bain in 1999. How many of those "success stories" occurred when he was there, and how many occurred in the last 13years?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483519
Romney supposedly left Bain in 1999. How many of those "success stories" occurred when he was there, and how many occurred in the last 13years?
Judging by how many contortions the 0bama campaign has gone through trying to put Mitt at the helm from 99 to 02 I'd bet most of the failures occurred over that 3 year period.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392349/politicians-are-people-too/20#post_3483518
The company wasn't unprofitable. They were making money. Alcoa was diversifying their subsidiary and they didn't fit into their future business model. Alcoa was tanking at the time, and they were trying to dump all non-essential businesses to boost their own bottom line. They were in the misdt of a hostile takeover, and didn't want that to happen. The owners of his comapny were actually looking for capital to buy themselves out, but Alcoa wouldn't let them. Pretty insulting when you tell your parent company you want to run on your own, and instead of paying them the 180 million, they paid some equity firm the money. Ther was some kind of backdoor deal that was going on between the equity firm and Alcoa, they just didn't know what it was.
That doesn't pass the smell test. You don't pay someone to take over a profitable company.