Possible to have reef w/ only NO lights?
- Thread starter reef dude
- Start date
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10k
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check this out
<a href="http://www.garf.org" target="_blank">www.garf.org</a>
They prove it's possible, and more!
<a href="http://www.garf.org" target="_blank">www.garf.org</a>
They prove it's possible, and more!
1
10k
Guest
Did you check out my link? They're growing acros under 80w of RO light in 55gal tanks. Pretty impressive!!
lettheirberock
Member
yes it can be done, i run 6 40w's on my 55, thats 240 watts and im keeping many corals succesfully. there not just surviveing there thriveing!!
wolffam
Member
You can find out which type of corals use low light and you can have those. But corals that require more light will not survive for long. Using NO lighing is not a problem as long as you have the right spectrum and enough lights to get the wattage needed. VHO & PC lighting just gives you more lighting with less lamps. HTH
frankl15207
Member
lettheirberock - how did you get 6 bulbs on a 55? I had just enough space to get 4 vho's in a 75 gallon canopy with German endcaps.
More light is always better, but you can get away with less light if the corals are placed high in the tank. If you go to the garf site and look for Scott's bulletproof reef calculator (scroll down on the right side of the home page), they will give you the recommendations for your specific tank. Obviously certain corals will not make it under a lower light, but there are enough of them out there to still make the tank rock.
More light is always better, but you can get away with less light if the corals are placed high in the tank. If you go to the garf site and look for Scott's bulletproof reef calculator (scroll down on the right side of the home page), they will give you the recommendations for your specific tank. Obviously certain corals will not make it under a lower light, but there are enough of them out there to still make the tank rock.
striker
Member
Oh man! Here I was ready to sell my vho's and downgrade to no's. Thanks a lot Sammy.
On the serious tip though you can read anywhere on the internet and in books and it will tell you that the correct amount of lighting is essential in reefkeeping and vital to many corals health. Some corals grow algae that provide it with 90-95% of it's substinance. If the lighting is not sufficient(NO's) then the coral will eventually deteriorate and often times die. There are a few that can survive in low lighting and even live in caves but why would you want to limit yourself. IMO some of these are even tougher to keep because of specialized feeding requirements. Even my mushrooms will sometimes stretch out towards the light and I have over 7 watts per gallon. Another major difference is the brightness and coloration that an upgrade in lighting gives to the tank and corals. You will be amazed how much nicer everthing looks in a well lit tank. Even the guy on garf(scott) upgraded eventually and remarked on the difference in growth and beauty of his corals. Trust me and take Sammy's advice. Don't try to skip the upgrade on lighting if you are planning on going reef. Especially in a larger and deeper tank such as yours.
On the serious tip though you can read anywhere on the internet and in books and it will tell you that the correct amount of lighting is essential in reefkeeping and vital to many corals health. Some corals grow algae that provide it with 90-95% of it's substinance. If the lighting is not sufficient(NO's) then the coral will eventually deteriorate and often times die. There are a few that can survive in low lighting and even live in caves but why would you want to limit yourself. IMO some of these are even tougher to keep because of specialized feeding requirements. Even my mushrooms will sometimes stretch out towards the light and I have over 7 watts per gallon. Another major difference is the brightness and coloration that an upgrade in lighting gives to the tank and corals. You will be amazed how much nicer everthing looks in a well lit tank. Even the guy on garf(scott) upgraded eventually and remarked on the difference in growth and beauty of his corals. Trust me and take Sammy's advice. Don't try to skip the upgrade on lighting if you are planning on going reef. Especially in a larger and deeper tank such as yours.
nm reef
Active Member
I agree ... the garf site and the info they have is interesting. But I would not suggest that you attempt to set up and maintain a reef with NO lighting. Unless you want to either severely limit the corals you keep or run the risk of watching your corals die a slow death....or both!
Reef keeping is not a cheap venture and should be undertaken with the intention of providing the best possible environment for the creatures you intend to keep. That said I would strongly urge you to consider alternatives to Garfs bullet proof plan. Options are limitless and can be done ....lighting/filtration/circulation are the foundation of a well established reef. If you skimp on either in my humble opinion you are asking for trouble down the road. If not trouble then possibly you will be up-grading to better options later.....take the plunge now and save yourself problems later.
Reef keeping is not a cheap venture and should be undertaken with the intention of providing the best possible environment for the creatures you intend to keep. That said I would strongly urge you to consider alternatives to Garfs bullet proof plan. Options are limitless and can be done ....lighting/filtration/circulation are the foundation of a well established reef. If you skimp on either in my humble opinion you are asking for trouble down the road. If not trouble then possibly you will be up-grading to better options later.....take the plunge now and save yourself problems later.
frankl15207
Member
My first impression when I went to the garf site awhile back was low, NO light. When I continued to use the site, I found that I, along with others, obviously misread things at the site. They recommend using NO lights over the first six months or so for the purpose of coralline development. But, if you do the multiplication, even the NO lights total over 4 watts per gallon.
Later, they recommend increasing the light to VHO at a whopping 8 watts or more per gallon (ie: 75 gallon tank = 8 110 watt VHO lights ).
Nowhere do they recommend the keeping of hard corals under NO lights. In fact, lighting is one of the questions that they ask before selling anything. I don't know if they would refuse to sell if the lighting were not adequate, but I did get that impression. It is a not for profit research foundation dedicated to the propagation of captive bred corals and the preservation of the coral reefs.
Later, they recommend increasing the light to VHO at a whopping 8 watts or more per gallon (ie: 75 gallon tank = 8 110 watt VHO lights ).
Nowhere do they recommend the keeping of hard corals under NO lights. In fact, lighting is one of the questions that they ask before selling anything. I don't know if they would refuse to sell if the lighting were not adequate, but I did get that impression. It is a not for profit research foundation dedicated to the propagation of captive bred corals and the preservation of the coral reefs.
goofyreefer
Member
I don't think GARF would sell you anything if they felt it would not survive in your tank. I bought many soft coral frags from them but when I inquired about some SPS I was told not to do it until my tank matures more. As for the lighting take the plunge and by some good lighting be it PC's or VHO. I wouldn't attempt NO lighting for a reef.
josh
Active Member
Hi,
Well not to stir the pot, but yes it can be done and done well. I would not advocate it for anything other than SOME SOFTIES, but Val over at nanoreefs had a very beautiful 75 gallon reef with No lights. I attached a link to a pic. I hope it works.
- Well I couldn't link to it at yahoo groups I will save it and upload it to webshots. Just a sec.
- OK give this a try
<a href="http://community.webshots.com/photo/33741688/37535932XiyeZf" target="_blank">75GalW/No</a>
Well not to stir the pot, but yes it can be done and done well. I would not advocate it for anything other than SOME SOFTIES, but Val over at nanoreefs had a very beautiful 75 gallon reef with No lights. I attached a link to a pic. I hope it works.
- Well I couldn't link to it at yahoo groups I will save it and upload it to webshots. Just a sec.
- OK give this a try
<a href="http://community.webshots.com/photo/33741688/37535932XiyeZf" target="_blank">75GalW/No</a>
headabovewater
Member
Get yourself 4 96Watt PC's from HelloLights.com
They work great and will penetrate deep into the bottam of your tank. They have some pretty good prices.
They work great and will penetrate deep into the bottam of your tank. They have some pretty good prices.
new jack
New Member
I usually dont post much, because I dont know much, but this post seems to remind me of my earlier questions and I would like to respond. When half the people tell you that you can do it and the other half tell you that you can not, than it is up to you. This is what happened to me, and I finally decided to take a cautious experimental approach. I do not reccomend this to you, for if you are looking to save money and dont like to take risks than listen to sammy. However, Sammystingray should not be telling you to disregard Garf. That seems to be one of the best sights on the subject, they take a scientiffic approach, and they are a widely published place. They have pictures of all types of corals growing under 120 watts of light over a 55 gallon. If you go to the part of the site that is entitled "recipe", it describes the set up of a new 55 gallon. He not only puts in corals but a clam after 15 days of setup, and the lights ae not upgraded on this tank EVER. I am not saying to go nuts and buy all you can, but why not try it. What do you have to lose, 30 bucks. You have like 1.7 watts of light and that should be fine as long as you keep to certain corals. You wont be able to keep a variety of corals but mushrooms leathers, and polyps might live if they are getting good exposure. Take it slow. Get 1, then if it lives get another. If it dies, buy some more fish until you can upgrade. Each aquarium is different, and all the specimens that go in the tank are different. I realize I am a mere damsel who might not have a million posts and you have no reason to take my advice. However, this is because I listen more than I talk. I will tell you something that I do know for sure from reading these posts religiously for the past 3 months. All the information on this site is in a constant loop. A person hears a piece of information and tells it to 5 people who in turn tell it to 5 more and after 2 months it suddenly becomes scientiffic fact. No one person is an expert on all corals or all fish and they should not pretend to be. This is a valuable site for getting quick information, but if Sammystingray says one thing and the guys at garf say another, I would believe garf(they are a scientiffic lab who does research and is published in many top notch magazines). Remember one can become a shark by posting 10000 lies. In brief, if you have a chance at keeping something alive, then take it, if it poses no risk to your other inhabitants. Worst case scenario, you lose 25 bucks and learn something. Best case scenario, you end up with a tank of thriving mushrooms, polyps, and leathers.
blondenaso1
Member
That was a very negative post. Sammy has been in this hobby for a long time and IMO the best way you learn anything is by experience. You can not be succesful in this hobby without doing a few things right here and there LOL! What happened to doing things right the first time?!? That should be the mentality in this hobby. Not," hey lets get a coral and if it dies I will consider upgrading!" What the heck is that? This hobby is a COMMITMENT! When you decide you want to pursue it then you better be ready to go all the way, not half *ss something. Yes! You can keep corals with NO lights, but you can also swim to Cuba from Florida...wanna try? I mean come on....if you are going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all!!!
jim672
Member
BlondeNaso,
I certainly agree with you.....even though my tank is proof that IT'S POSSIBLE to have a reef tank with NO lighting. I have a 45 gallon with 90 watts of NO lighting. The corals I have a mushrooms, cabbage leather, colt, a pink bubble, a green hammer, and a dendronephthya. All my corals are living and growing. Now.....having read the posts on this BB over the past 6 months, from people like sammy and NM reef, I realize that my corals could be growing more and have more vibrant colors if I had more light. So right now I'm trying to decide whether to purchase VHO or PC's and I think I'm leaning towards 330 watts of VHO.
The sharks here are very good at offering tactful, useful ADVICE based on their obvious scientific knowledge and experiences in the hobby.
That's why people like me come to this bb. I never feel as if I'm being coerced or ordered to do anything....merely that someone more experienced is coaching me how to handle certain situations. And I appreciate seeing different opinions about the same issue. That's very helpful to me in trying to make up my mind about which way I want to proceed. Case in point...I've stopped adding coral to my system until I upgrade my lighting. Based on all I've read, I know I'm just rolling the dice if I keep putting coral in my tank with only 90 watts of light and I don't want to kill any corals!!
Okay, I'm stepping down off my soapbox now....
Jim
I certainly agree with you.....even though my tank is proof that IT'S POSSIBLE to have a reef tank with NO lighting. I have a 45 gallon with 90 watts of NO lighting. The corals I have a mushrooms, cabbage leather, colt, a pink bubble, a green hammer, and a dendronephthya. All my corals are living and growing. Now.....having read the posts on this BB over the past 6 months, from people like sammy and NM reef, I realize that my corals could be growing more and have more vibrant colors if I had more light. So right now I'm trying to decide whether to purchase VHO or PC's and I think I'm leaning towards 330 watts of VHO.
The sharks here are very good at offering tactful, useful ADVICE based on their obvious scientific knowledge and experiences in the hobby.
That's why people like me come to this bb. I never feel as if I'm being coerced or ordered to do anything....merely that someone more experienced is coaching me how to handle certain situations. And I appreciate seeing different opinions about the same issue. That's very helpful to me in trying to make up my mind about which way I want to proceed. Case in point...I've stopped adding coral to my system until I upgrade my lighting. Based on all I've read, I know I'm just rolling the dice if I keep putting coral in my tank with only 90 watts of light and I don't want to kill any corals!!
Okay, I'm stepping down off my soapbox now....
Jim
frankl15207
Member
For what it's worth Sammy, I didn't think your post was negative - it was factual and reality.
Cheap and reefs don't work.
Cheap and reefs don't work.
striker
Member
Sammy isn't being negative or conservative but stating the facts. A reef run with inferior lighting will inhibit most coral growth and can eventually lead to their deaths. I did read the article and other ones from Garf. Scott's reef started out as NO and within a few months upgraded to VHO. He remarks on the incredible difference in his corals' appearance and growth. The other tanks I checked are all run on VHO. I didn't read anything on Garf that advocates NO lighting for a reef tank or any other website for that matter. But as stated before if you have an indifference to the deaths of living corals for experimentation and would like a subpar appearence in your tank then by all means go for the NO lighting.