Powder Blue With Ich

[youngskywalker]

I know these things are ich magnets. I have a 75 Gal with a Flame Angel, Yellow Tang, a Gold Stripe Maroon, and 2 Tomato clowns. I added a Powder Blue Sunday and the first day there was a little tale swishing back and forth between the Yellow Tang and Powder Blue. After the first day the 2 have been fine. The Powder Blue has ich as I know they will get it anytime you add it to a new aquarium. He is eating like a beast and has taken over the tank as expected. No other fish have showed signs and I have a UV sterilizer on. Any chance he shakes the ich if he keeps eating and since it looks as if he is feeling real comfortable in the tank now? I know some of yall will say I shouldn't have the 2 tangs in a 75.

 

[mandy111]

You shouldn't have 2 tangs in 75g. But yes, if he's is now stress free & eating a good variety if Hugh quality foods he can rude it out and shake it. The other occupants may or may not get it depending on their stress levels & health. I've had ich on A new blue tang that he got over & no others showed any signs.

 

[youngskywalker]

The others are showing no signs at all. No specs or even as much as a little shake or rub. Everyone is eating like crazy which I figured it was a good sign. Even the powder blue. I want to put some seaweed in but I don't want to put my hands in to much right now.

 

[beth]

Sorry to say, that ich is highly contagious in an enclosed environment and fish can not shake it, or escape from it in a fish tank. Left untreated, the fish will live with the parasite until one day it overcomes him (and others in the tank). Similar to a dog getting ticks....its not going away on its own.

I agree that two tangs in a 75 is a recipe for disaster, and even one of those tangs is wrong, since they need larger fish tanks to do well. Here is your best ich treatment:

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/content/100

 

[mandy111]

Yes. Ich will now live In Your tank ! But will not show it's ugly head again unless you have a new addition, aggression or water out of wack. About 18 months ago I added 2 blue hippos. Both got covered in ich. No other fish got it because they were healthy. & strong & not stressed at all. Catching , chasing. , netting & stress of QT is often a lot worse than an isolated case. Powder blue has got it due to stress it is unlikely it would kill any other fish. Keep him eating, pristine water and good quality foods but most of all stress free. And yes you now have ich living in your tank. I've had it 18 months now just added a powder blue & purple tang ( both ich magnets ) not returned yet

 

[beth]

Adding new fish to the aquaria in and of itself will not cause ich to reappear. Ich is already there. Stress to fish will make the fish more susceptible (any stress) to a bigger outbreak of the problem. That could be as simple as doing a water change, or adding a new piece of rock. The fish have ich, and they are being eaten up by the parasite whether the hobbyist notices it or not. Saying that, I will add that the fish do not need stress for a big outbreak to appear. It will happen because the parasite is in an enclosed system with their food source readily available. There is no easy or quick way to address the problem, once it is in your system. If you introduce a dog with untreated fleas and ticks into your household what will happen? It may be a long time gone unnoticed, but eventually, fleas and ticks will start to be in other places in the house in addition to the infested dog. How do you treat this problem on your pet and now inside your house? The dog and your house, and maybe even the people in the house have to cleared of the pest with pesticide. Ich within a closed aquarium is the same. It will remain and proliferate unless adequately treated.

Youngskywalker what kind of fish tank do you have? Live rock, corals?

 

[mandy111]

Ich will remain dormant until it sees an opportunity to attach to a weakened or stressed fish with generally lack of slime coat.
The reason powders in particular are ICH magnets is because they have a very thin slime coat compared to a lot of other fish, flame angels are the same, very prone to ICH. because of the lack of slime coat they carry. This is also why dragonets never get ICH because of their thickened slime coats.
I suggested a new addition may get it to rear its ugly head, because it is generally the most stressed fish, i wasn't suggesting that ich will rear its head just because you add a new fish.
70% of reef tanks carry ICH.
We are obviously on different pages @beth which is fine, but after having an ICH out break shortly after the upgrade, moving all fish to a hospital tank, were 2 died within hours of catching and placing in QT.
Took my chances (12 hrs later ) added all fish back into the DT all covered in spots back into a comfortable,large, stress free environment and lost not 1 more fish to it.
I honestly believe the catch and move killed those 2 fish and don't believe 100% that they would have died in the DT.
All my fish are now ICH survivors, the only reason they got it in the first place was the stress of the move. As i said previously have recently added 10 tangs, including 2 x powder blues and a purple, known to be ich magnets and no sign of it re appearing.
Everyone panics with ich, you don't have to. They can survive. I have heard of people that lose whole tanks to ich and that unforturnate too, but their fish must be in some kind of weakened state. Keep pristine water, variety of food more often and hands out of the tank and they can fight it off. Ive proven that.
But I took my chances and it paid off, the stress of the QT with not rocks, hiding holes etc was killing my fish 100% not the ICH itself.

 

[beth]

They survived, but still very likely carry ich. And I know that many aquaria carry ich, but it would be irresponsible of me to imply that that was ok just because it happens. Also, the vast majority of aquaria are not like yours (such as two tangs in a 75), and far from a stressless pristine environments. While there are some investigations into the dormancy of ich, by and large, the parasite does have a life cycle, a short one at that. In the absence of fish in the tank, the parasites will die off within a few weeks which is why leaving the aquaria fish free for a period is so effective in eliminating the problem.

mandy, I don't think we are really on different pages, but after seeing thousands of folks go through ich bouts over the years, I've come to some conclusions. One biggy is not to assume that hobbyists seeking help with their sick fish have the perfect system that will aid in their fish's' recovery. Frequently, its the opposite. And even with a very well maintained system, the likelihood of keeping fish alive and healthy with ich present is very low in most systems. You can not compare the setup you have to most aquaria. Ich in most enclosed environments is going to be very problematic for most hobbyists, and they need to act aggressively, or accept the consequences. Saying that, I will tell you that I rarely advocate for ripping apart a reef tank that has been contaminated by ich. You have to weight the pros and cons on that one and every situation has its own circumstance.

I've never lost a fish due to QT stress. Actually, once I started to QT, I never lost a fish to ich thereafter.

 

[mandy111]

Ok. I don't think QT process is the killer. I think the hospital tank is a killer. A fish needing QT generally comes from a. 3-4 foot lfs under nurished & weak. I do 100% agree with running a QT tank. A hospital tank is very different. Stressing. & catching existing fish in DT does more damage than it's worth. The fish In our case had the stress of catching them out of a 7 footer with their designated sleeping / feeding territories & putting them into a. 4 foot fish bowl. In my case I believe hospital tank did the damage. I accept what you say that we are lucky to have such a large system but I also believe no matter the size of tank pristine water, variety of food & stress free is achievable on many levels. Comes down to commitment of fish keeper I suppose. If this person only has 1 powder blue showing signs & no offers then personally I wouldn't stress my hole tank out trying to remove him, then you have a real good chance of it spreading.

 

[beth]

Looking at your specific situation with the tank you have, I would give pause to extract any fish from there, however, your tank size is by far not typical of most systems. You have to assess the situation individually. I can assure that the HT is many cases save fish. Each hobbyist has to decide if its worth the trouble and risk of disrupting the whole system to catch fish. Which is why QT is so very important. Treat your fish before they ever get to the display.

Just keep in mine that ich in your system is going to be more manageable than in most aquaria. To most, having ich in their system is a potential time bomb that they don't want.

 

[mandy111]

Looking at your specific situation with the tank you have, I would give pause to extract any fish from there, however, your tank size is by far not typical of most systems. You have to assess the situation individually. I can assure that the HT is many cases save fish. Each hobbyist has to decide if its worth the trouble and risk of disrupting the whole system to catch fish. Which is why QT is so very important. Treat your fish before they ever get to the display.

Just keep in mine that ich in your system is going to be more manageable than in most aquaria. To most, having ich in their system is a potential time bomb that they don't want.

But surely @beth The size of system shouldn't matter. ? I have more area for the ich to attach too so shouldn't I in proportion have just as many problems as a smaller tank ? They just get less ich I get more ? Or am I not getting something ?

 

[youngskywalker]

Well so far so good. Everyday the powder blue is looking better and better. I'm not seeing him scratching and he has fewer and fewer spots daily. He's still eating like a beast and not other fish are showing signs. I'm still very hopeful.

 

[mandy111]

Well so far so good. Everyday the powder blue is looking better and better. I'm not seeing him scratching and he has fewer and fewer spots daily. He's still eating like a beast and not other fish are showing signs. I'm still very hopeful.

Glad to hear that. keep up the good work. Powders get ich if yo sneeze at them. they recovery just as quickly too. Good Job.

 

[beth]

Ich is cyclical, which means that it has a cycle of life of which only one of those cycles does the parasite attach to the fish. The other two cycles the parasite is in the tank on surfaces then free-swimming. When it becomes free-swimming, it will be a contagion to other fish, and re-infect the PB.