Predator Hunting

[kclester]

no thats a fish not a deer or elk which was stated that they hunt and kill which they dont and thats also a grizzly bear not the black bears of west virginia and north carolina that we are talking about ive been in the woods since i was old enogh to walk and i have neevr seen a bear fishing around here.......thats a grizzly where they have salmon runs....no salmon runs around here i dont think

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by kclester
i said their diet was 90% plants and such when pretty much considers them herbanours but i didnt say they DOnt eat me maybe you should read where this post origanly came from......its just the facts bear are basically herbavours yea they do eat meat which does make them an omnivore but all im saying is the 90 % of their diest is plants and such 5 % meat 5% bugs and such and there is NOTHING wrong with hunting it is natural your late late relatives would not have survivrd if it wasnt from hunting its just the way i chose to live my life.....most of the people around here grew up hunting and they take great pride in it....and i would love for some city slicker or anyone for that matter to come here and tell me i cant go hunting so bad things would go on around here if they ever passed the law to make it illegal to hunt

Bears are opportunistic feeders, they will eat what is available because it is of utmost importance that they store as much fat for hibernation as possible. If a deer population was high it would make sense that they would probably take advantage and consume a fair number of fawns...lets say W. Virginia has 10k bears and if each one were to consume 5-10 fawns a year that'd be upwards of 50-100k deer a year, which would help check the population...this in conjunction to hunting and coyote predation.
The point of this is that each animal has a place in the ecosytem and hunting bears for sport is not doing an ounce of good unless their popuations are abnormally large and they were starving, which I am sure is not the case. Or if a particular bear is a menance, which I am sure happens but is not a fair representation for the whole population. Also, if you build in an area that has a high poplution or reduce the size of their natural habitat then the owness is on you for creating a less then desirable situation.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by kclester
no thats a fish not a deer or elk which was stated that they hunt and kill which they dont and thats also a grizzly bear not the black bears of west virginia and north carolina that we are talking about ive been in the woods since i was old enogh to walk and i have neevr seen a bear fishing around here.......thats a grizzly where they have salmon runs....no salmon runs around here i dont think
You are saying a black bear will not consume an injured or sick deer or elk?

 

[darknes]

Jmick, are you a vegetarian? If not, don't you think all those cows and chickens that are raised in pens and led to slaughter should have a chance?
Get over it. Man has hunted since the dawn of time. As long as the hunter isn't torturing the animals, I'm all for it.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Since the beggining of man we have hunted for food so why is it wrong now?
Genesis 9:3
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
Deuteronomy 12:15
15 Nevertheless, you may slaughter your animals in any of your towns and eat as much of the meat as you want, as if it were gazelle or deer, according to the blessing the LORD your God gives you. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it.
And BTW we are the top of the food chain. The thing that seperates us from the rest of the animals on this planet is awareness of self and the superior ability to adapt and survive via sharp sticks or high powered rifles.
And my favorite quote from Ted Nugent "Rack um And Stack Um" BTW whos wearing leather shoes ,aligator wallet,ostrich boots and had hamburger for lunch?
Please no religion in this thread.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Jmick, are you a vegetarian? If not, don't you think all those cows and chickens that are raised in pens and led to slaughter should have a chance?
Get over it. Man has hunted since the dawn of time. As long as the hunter isn't torturing the animals, I'm all for it.
Have you read this thread at all? I am not against hunting, I am against hunting predators instead of prey animals. Generally speaking prey animals are pleniful and abundant and in many cases a nuisence. Top line predators in many cases have been removed and because of that it knocks everything out of whack.
Cows and chickens are not really my concern, so long as they are kept in humane conditions and allowed to live a decent life before they go to slaughter I am happy.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Let me start this out by saying that I am in no way against hunting if the animals in the given area are way over populated and they are the general prey items of the given area (deer, elk, various birds, rabbit, etc).
However, I do think it is wrong for people to kill predators (bears, wolves, lions, birds of prey, etc). ....
I've locked, edited, and deleted so many of Jmick's threads... It's nice to be on the other side for a change.
Folks, read what he said.... He's not against hunting, he's against killing predators.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
On top of all of this, there is little sport in sitting in a tree stand all day waiting for an animal to get into range so you can blast it at 20 yards. If you want to make it a true hunt you should stalk your prey and at least give it a chance rather then blasting it while it is clueless of your presence.
I was referring to this.
So, you aren't against hunting or eating meat; you are against hunting predators because it ruins the ecosystem?
Fair enough argument.
I don't have much knowledge in current animal populations, but I'm sure that states would not issue permits for certain game if they felt the population was going to be decreased to such a point that the ecosystem is messed up.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I've locked, edited, and deleted so many of Jmick's threads... It's nice to be on the other side for a change.
Folks, read what he said.... He's not against hunting, he's against killing predators.

Hey now, I'm sure it's fewer then 20 threads

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I was referring to this.
So, you aren't against hunting or eating meat; you are against hunting predators because it ruins the ecosystem?
Fair enough argument.
I don't have much knowledge in current animal populations, but I'm sure that states would not issue permits for certain game if they felt the population was going to be decreased to such a point that the ecosystem is messed up.
Also, there are so many game animals to hunt deer, elk, boar, birds, ect it makes me wonder why someone would want to hunt preditors which are on a different level and are amazing animals and I think most people agree.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Also, there are so many game animals to hunt deer, elk, boar, birds, ect it makes me wonder why someone would want to hunt preditors which are on a different level and are amazing animals and I think most people agree.
I'm not a hunter, but let's put it this way:
Why would someone want to own predatory fish (sharks, triggers, puffers, etc.) which hurts the oceans ecosystem when there are so many amazing reef-type fish.
It's all about the feeling you get that you own or you killed something tough and at the top of the food chain.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Darknes
I'm not a hunter, but let's put it this way:
Why would someone want to own predatory fish (sharks, triggers, puffers, etc.) which hurts the oceans ecosystem when there are so many amazing reef-type fish.
It's all about the feeling you get that you own or you killed something tough and at the top of the food chain.
That is a good point but I don't put the same value on fish that I put on mammals. I do agree that for a lot of guys having a shark is because it's bad @#@ and manly and the said might be the same for bear hunting.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Please no religion in this thread.
Sorry to bring the big guys word to this thread.
Ill keep my comments to the matter at hand .If the animial is not on the endagered species list then it is fair game for hunters.For some familys it a time honored tradition.My grandfather took my father,my father took me ,and ill,take my son.Ive been taught to respect wildlife and not to damage or take more than i need.Ive learned alot from my hunting experiances,and im not talking point, shoot, kill. Ive learned alot about respect for our enviroment.
I dont have a major in Wildlife management or any other degree in the field so i leave it up to the DNR to let me know when things are going in the wrong direction.I dont belive most hunters will shoot a coyote because its a "predator"considered a varmit with a shoot to kill bounty on there head,just because it will depleat the pheasant population. Most hunters i know have a respect for nature and the natural cycle .

 

[kclester]

i agree.....and i do agree with jmick up to some point.....but if they werent hunters controlling their populations then they would depleat their prey items so to speak along with the coyotes......if they kill off most of the prey items what does this leave us...alot of hungrey bears coming into our neighboor hoods to get into our trash and i dont know about you but that would be a problem..............if the numbers of bears and coyotes are low dont shott them just because it would look great on your wall or because you could have bragging rights for the rest of the season make the ethical choice and let the bear walk............everything that has been said on thie post is mostly true bears do eat they prey animals such as fawns but not alot.....and bears have became some what of a problem around here i just seen the dnr go down the road with a bear trap a few mins ago.........but i do respect jmick's opinion and everyone elses's i have just been braught up this way and ill bring my childern up this way.......i love the fact that i hunt and that i do provide needy people with a meal when i donate some of my kill to the needy.....but bottom line both the prey items and the predators have to be controlled to keep the ecosystem at its natural pace.....sun feeds plant...plant feeds bugs...bugs feed birds...bird feeds fox and bob cat....its just keeps going....every thing has to be controlled...jmick if we only hunted the prey and not the predator that would throw everything out of wack also.......but everything you have said is entirely true i may disagree with it but it is true

 

[kclester]

sure if they come across a wounded deer or elk or a very weak sick one im sure they would take advantage......but they dont HUNT them like waht was stated befor.......but i agree with you they would take advantage and finish killing a wounded or sick prey item

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by kclester
i agree.....and i do agree with jmick up to some point.....but if they werent hunters controlling their populations then they would depleat their prey items so to speak along with the coyotes......if they kill off most of the prey items what does this leave us...alot of hungrey bears coming into our neighboor hoods to get into our trash and i dont know about you but that would be a problem..............if the numbers of bears and coyotes are low dont shott them just because it would look great on your wall or because you could have bragging rights for the rest of the season make the ethical choice and let the bear walk............everything that has been said on thie post is mostly true bears do eat they prey animals such as fawns but not alot.....and bears have became some what of a problem around here i just seen the dnr go down the road with a bear trap a few mins ago.........but i do respect jmick's opinion and everyone elses's i have just been braught up this way and ill bring my childern up this way.......i love the fact that i hunt and that i do provide needy people with a meal when i donate some of my kill to the needy.....but bottom line both the prey items and the predators have to be controlled to keep the ecosystem at its natural pace.....sun feeds plant...plant feeds bugs...bugs feed birds...bird feeds fox and bob cat....its just keeps going....every thing has to be controlled...jmick if we only hunted the prey and not the predator that would throw everything out of wack also.......but everything you have said is entirely true i may disagree with it but it is true
And there's the heart of it.... wild predators compete with man and are therefore killed.
Nature doesn't need mankind to balance it.

 

[kclester]

true it doesnt need us...but we do help

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by kclester
true it doesnt need us...but we do help
No we don't.
We can never regulate nature better than nature regulates itself.

 

[kclester]

lol ok well regardless if we do or dont help which we do..........i will always do it and no matter what someone says or does i will never stop so.....wether if we help or not imma do it

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by kclester
lol ok well regardless if we do or dont help which we do..........i will always do it and no matter what someone says or does i will never stop so.....wether if we help or not imma do it
So you are arguing that man can regulate nature better than nature itself?