Pregnant Pork

pufferlover

Active Member
Just out of interest for those who have ever wondered my female Pork Herbiette is about to drop eggs again. She has done this twice in the last 2 years and it is always preceded by becoming quite Porky and staying off to herself and going off her feed somewhat. She is now doing all three again and is quite the large lady at the moment. The first time I called the Shedd aquarium here in Chgo for help on chances of doing something with the eggs but was told the odds are almost zero. I tried both times to put some eggs in another tank still attached to the inlets they clogged but had no luck. The major problem this causes is when she does it the eggs clog everything in site and there is layer after layer stuck to all the filter inlets which have to be constanly cleaned till she is done. I bring this up only because it seems to be somewhat rare to have this happen and I only wish I could have a couple of babies from this pair but alas it is not to be unless someone out there on the board has a clue what I should do different this time.
 

dgs174

Member
This is OT pufferlover, so please forgive. I also live in chicago, what lfs do you go to? I never knew you could use the shedd for informational purposes...
 

coconuttelegraph

New Member
I've always believed that the best way to have success in a controled aquarium environment is to understand the animal's behaviors in the wild.
I am a Zoology student with a concentration in marine biology at Michigan State University, and have access to seemingly infinite numbers of periodicles. Tomorrow, or tuesday at the latest I will check into any research done on the reproduction of Diodon holocanthus. Hopefully this will help you to re-create (if possible) the proper environment for successful breeding. (I hope she can hold off til then) :)
 

pufferlover

Active Member
First to dgs174; no problem with what you asked I mainly use a store here in Palatine as it is very close to my house and I have become friendly with the owner. Due to the rules on the board I can't list the name but if you go to my homepage thru the profile I will be glad to give it to you. There are not many in this northern area I haven't been to at some point.
To coconut telegraph; Thanks for looking that up for me. As far as the Shedd I have been a member for a few years but they do have a line that answers questions for hobbiest. You just call the main number and they give you a recording that tells you to ask question and leave a number to be called at. It does take a day or two but then someone from there calls with your answer. My guess based on her condition is that I have about a week before she will start. When I talked to the Shedd the first time they said due to the Plaktonic stage the eggs go thru to hatch it can not be duplicated in a tank. They said I could put some eggs in another tank and if I would get lucky it would be within 2 weeks (nothing happened either time I tried). Now I do know that some fish do not have anything develope the first spawn or two which is why I am ready to try again.
 

pufferlover

Active Member
First to Porkypuffer; From what I have read there is no distinction they have noted yet between the ---'s. I didn't start out for a pair I bought them a week apart in 94 at 2 different stores and decided to put them with each other (they were little bitty babies), As they grew I noted one was always larger by about 3 to 4 inches but still was not sure till about 3 years ago when she dropped eggs the first time. I felt if nothing else I accomplished something good with my care for them. They have always been my 2 favorites and I have spent untold bucks on them and their tanks as they outgrew 4 tanks. It is a sight to behold when she does it but the mess is unbelievable afterwards,
Now to Trey; I frankly have never seen anything from the male that would indicate he is doing his part. I have never tried to move any of the eegs I saved until I was sure she was done and laying on the bottom resting. He just swims up and down looking excited but not releasing anything I can see while I am there watching (hope he isn't modest). I have cleaned up what I needed to in order to keep the inlets open but know some eegs were left in the main tank plus what I moved to my smaller tank filled with the main tanks water. These 2 are just great fish and if I could get just a couple of their offspring it would great but how to do it I just don't know and no one else seems to have had this happen that I have found.
 

coconuttelegraph

New Member
I looked at spawning and reproduction of D. holocanthus today, and found a few possible things to take into consideration while attempting to make this work. (i should have written down the sources so you could obtain copies for yourself)
First off, reproduction in the aquarium has occured and is not impossible. In all of the literature that i looked over giving a time frame, spawning always occurs between 9:30 and 11:30 pm. this will be the time to check if your male is doing his job. The problem is that in the cases sited anywhere from 2 to 5 males will nudge the female to the water's surface and encourage her to release eggs where all of the males will frantically try to fertilize them. Not anywhere could i find information where a single male will attempt this. It is a possibility that males will become stimulated by the presence of other males to spawn and be sure it is their genes that are being passed on.
something you may want to try (if possible) is temporarily introducing another male into your system. (although this may be risky to the puffers you have now)
Another thing, spawning occurs when water temperatures are at or slightly above 24.4 degrees celsius. adujusting your water temp accordingly may help. The eggs are buoyant, and stay at or near the surface usually in or near floating sargassum. Temperature in the upper column seems like it would be higher in these areas, and the eggs may also be warmed by the sun, I havn't been able to find any information supporting this, merely one of my own speculations. (Something you might want to play around with.) Hatching occurs from 103 to 108 hours after being deposited. There has been no evidence of the eggs being guarded by the male or the female, so separating them may be a good idea. The larvae are shelled, and have no spines. until reaching roughly 16 cm. they will float in these sargassum clumps until development is complete and they will then settle into the reef.
An article that looked to be very informative (if you can find it in english rather than japanese) is:
Sakamoto, T. & Suzuki, K. (1978) Spawning behavior and early life history of the porcupine puffer, Diodon holocanthus, in aquaria. Japanese Journal of Icthyology, 24(4):261-270.
I am going to try to locate a translated version tomrrow. if you can, you may want to try to get a hold of this. (if i find it, i will make a copy and send it to you via e-mail)
I did not get a chance to make it into the library of Natural science today. i will look into it tomorrow and should get back to you on it before 9 p.m. hopefully i will find some more information there. They may have a copy of the periodical i mentioned. (hopefully in english) I will also check into the department of fisheries and wildlife. maybe they will have something usefull.
Until tomorrow, best of luck...
 

pufferlover

Active Member
I really appreciate your efforts (I owe you one), the fact that is not thought to be impossible is helpful to say the least. I would tend to agree that to try to add another Pork to the mix might be (after 7 years) be a major problem. Now something trey said that I found interesting was that I do not believe I ever saw the male anywhere near her when she was dropping the eggs. She would be say on the left side and he would be running up and down on the right side. I tend to think he is not doing his duty and I spoke to him about it tonight but I think he was just grinning at me the whole time. I agree the eegs that did not get sucked to the inlets did float as trey called it like one of this snow shake up things it was weird the tank looked like it was full of little clear floating marbles and they were everywhere. The timing as I remember was I saw this first thing in the morning both times as I came down to check my tanks so when she starts I do not know for sure but it goes on for a few hours. Now if he was doing his duty I would expect to see some cloudiness to the water but just can't recall if I did (will watch closer this time if I am home when it happens). My last thought would be if he does something and I move some eegs what would be the best way to handle them when placed in another tank (last time I just used my spare 5 gallon where I could fill it with 5 gallons from the main tank just before I moved the clogged inlets and placed them in it along with some loose floating eegs.
In the past when I kept freshwater too I had both mollie babies every month and african chiclid babies from 2 other pair (so many I was selling them to my lfs for credit on future orders) but ther I just sat back and it happened on its own (live birth is much easier). As I stated above I am not greedy I just would love to have a couple offspring of this pair to keep the strain alive as they are the most fantastic fish I ever owned. Thanks again I'll be off work tomorrow have some painting to do tanks to clean then will check in.
If this gets involved and due to your effort if you have soemthing for me and it is easier if somehow you can get your # to me I'll call and save you all the typing. Your choice thanks again.
[ April 17, 2001: Message edited by: Pufferlover ]
 

coconuttelegraph

New Member
i did a search of the periodicals in msu's libraries today. unfortunately i came up empty handed. i also checked the reference books but again, not anything that would help you. i'm going to keep my eyes open, and if i maybe come up with anywhere else to look, i'll give it a shot. If we can somewhere find the journal that i mentioned in my last post, it seems like it would be very helpful.
 

pufferlover

Active Member
Thanks again. The newest advice I have got is to go ahead when it happens and place some eegs again in another tank with just a air stone and a heater and see what happens. This time I'll watch the big guy and see if I can catch him doing something to help me have a chance this time. she still is just hanging around and eating a bit but staying off to the side as she did last time, just hope I'm home when she starts.
 
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