Prop 8

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by digitydash
http:///forum/post/2830341
I personally dont care what they do.That bill did not pass in florida either.
We Kalifornians passed it.
again.

 

[reefraff]

The gay marriage ban passed in all the states it was on the ballot in. As far as I know New Mexico is the only state to reject the ban.

 

[maxalmon]

Wasn't so long ago that women were told they couldn't vote because it was a something a man should decide, then the ladies decided they wanted to have the EXACT same rights with no exclusions...google women sufferage, that was a long and hard fight for them to win
Lets not forget Rosa Parks who wanted to have the same EXACT rights as white people riding a bus, look how long that took.
It all boils down to us gay people wanting to have the EXACT same rights as everyone else, why shouldn't we have the EXACT same rights?
A civil union is NOT the same as a marriage, the rights are limited and dictated and not the EXACT same and if you did your research you would see that they are not in the least way offering the EXACT same benefits.
For anyone who gets sideways with me grouping gay rights with womens rights and black rights, then you need to go to the library and readup on CIVIL RIGHTS, has nothing to do with religion or anything else. If you want to read up on the dirty underside of hatred, then search for gay atrocities in the United States and you wonder why we are so adamant about now asserting our civil rights
For those who claim that marriage is a man and a woman, then you are claiming religious beliefs should trump my civil rights, again, seperation of church and state.
Give it time, might not pass right now, but it will as more and more people are starting to see that it's nothing more than a civil right and the older generation is dying off and more progressive people are growing up. 20 years ago it would have been 2% for, 98% against, now it's a tight almost 50/50

 

[digitydash]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2830536
The gay marriage ban passed in all the states it was on the ballot in. As far as I know New Mexico is the only state to reject the ban.
Did not pass in florida.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2830536
The gay marriage ban passed in all the states it was on the ballot in. As far as I know New Mexico is the only state to reject the ban.

Originally Posted by digitydash
http:///forum/post/2830614
Did not pass in florida.
It was called many different things in different states. In Florida, Amendment 2, was to define marriage as between one man and one women. It passed.
Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2830604
Wasn't so long ago that women were told they couldn't vote because it was a something a man should decide, then the ladies decided they wanted to have the EXACT same rights with no exclusions...google women sufferage, that was a long and hard fight for them to win
Lets not forget Rosa Parks who wanted to have the same EXACT rights as white people riding a bus, look how long that took.
It all boils down to us gay people wanting to have the EXACT same rights as everyone else, why shouldn't we have the EXACT same rights?
A civil union is NOT the same as a marriage, the rights are limited and dictated and not the EXACT same and if you did your research you would see that they are not in the least way offering the EXACT same benefits.
For anyone who gets sideways with me grouping gay rights with womens rights and black rights, then you need to go to the library and readup on CIVIL RIGHTS, has nothing to do with religion or anything else. If you want to read up on the dirty underside of hatred, then search for gay atrocities in the United States and you wonder why we are so adamant about now asserting our civil rights
For those who claim that marriage is a man and a woman, then you are claiming religious beliefs should trump my civil rights, again, seperation of church and state.
Give it time, might not pass right now, but it will as more and more people are starting to see that it's nothing more than a civil right and the older generation is dying off and more progressive people are growing up. 20 years ago it would have been 2% for, 98% against, now it's a tight almost 50/50
So then it's fair to sue a church because it doesn't matter that their rights/beliefs are below that of the gay couple that wants to have a ceremony in their church? Or sue the photographer because it doesn't matter what views he have, as long as the gay couple "are equal?"

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2828547
Most states afford many of these right in Civil unions.

I don't particularly care, if you take a strict consititutionalist approach people are entitles to put such things for a vote and for whatever the reason they've voted.
I am however happy it passed, thumbing their noses to those judges who imposed their will over the people's. When they overturned the previoius ban.
Most states? I beg to differ. The one you live in doesn't. What do you think Prop 8 turned over? Everyone is stuck on the term 'marriage'. To me it's a sad statement for this country to categorize a group of citizens, no matter if it's race, gender, or sexual preference. Just look at the Equal Opportunity of Employment statement.
The Federal laws prohibiting job discrimination are:
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, ---, or national origin;
The Federal Government has "Don't Ask Don't Tell" for it's military.
I wouldn't call a 52% to 48% vote a resounding statement of the will of the people in California. The conservatives that were against this right just had more money and media coverage (worked for Obama). I'd be curious to see the voting percentages on who did vote for this Proposition, where they lived, ages, gender, etc.

 

[petjunkie]

Marriage is not a religious only union and I don't you should be allowed to spout God as the reason gays can't marry. I can get married and have no belief in God. Most of the arguements against gay marriage sound oddly the same as the ones against interracial marriage, that it will lead to decreased morality, ruin the institution of marriage, lead to marrying animals, etc, etc.
My parents have seven marriages between them so far, which apparently is fine since they are straight. I have no great urge to get married but probably will eventually for the rights it gives you and your spouse, shouldn't any consenting adult be allowed the same? I honestly could care less if they made polygamy legal, if everybody's happy, where's the issue? If it's against your morals, don't do it. Why should gays have to have "civil unions"? Are they two adults that love each other?

[hr]

[hr]
can get wasted and marry whomever whenever but the same right is denied to gays because of sexual preference?
I give it another ten years max and it'll be legal everywhere anyways, it doesn't seem to have caused anarchy anywhere it's legal so far and I can't see how a ring on somebody's else finger is any of my business. People just love to discrimate though.

 

[digitydash]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2830708
It was called many different things in different states. In Florida, Amendment 2, was to define marriage as between one man and one women. It passed."
Yes That passed and what that ment was they would not reconize anything other then women and man marriages.Personaly think it stupid it not like they are hurting anyone. I have seen my fair share of disfunctional marraiges between women and men. All most of them want is tax breaks like a married couple. I dont think that would change the way they live their life day to day already. Just the peace of mind they are equal to any women and man marriages. I think as the older people die off it will change and be voted into all states.I think the younger generation does not find it the same way as the older generation.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2830711
The conservatives that were against this right just had more money and media coverage (worked for Obama).
False.
The prop 8 opposition raised over $2.3 million more than the conservatives with more air time and it still passed.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...8220.htmlstory
People from all over the country temporarily moved to Ca when they heard that prop 8 made it on the ballot. I saw news articles on this relating more to people that opposed prop 8, but it could have happened on both sides.

 

[sharkbait9]

The country was found on Christian beliefs, when the country started to move away from those principles this country was found on problems started. Now we have a few load mouthed tom ---- and harry spouting off about “I don't believe in this that and the other thing and I don’t solute the flag and don’t like under god on my money, alterative living people should be able to get married and what ever else you want to throw in the mix. Don’t like? Beat it.
Same thing with holidays, christians, jews, Islamic, and every other culture came to america knowing what it was all about. If they don’t like how the US is run, stay out.
I speak English as my first language, Spanish is a second because I had to learn it to graduate. I celebrate Christmas, easter, thanksgiving, and every other holiday and go to church and follow the catholic religion.
I can except alterative life styles and gay unions, that’s fine. You want the same right to cover your life partner in health care and what ever else you see fit, have at it. But when alterative living people want to barge in on my church and feel they should be able to change my church to allow a few peoples feelings, No, not gonna happen.
I could care less that someone is gay, in fact I still play golf with a team member from the ambulance I ride on. Me and my wife go scuba dive together with him and his partner and go to neutral gender bars for a few drinks. He excepts how I feel about the marriage and church idea, so before anyone goes saying im a bigot or I hate anyone, go scratch.
Certain ideas and the way life is just can not be changed to make a few happy and all cozy comfy.

 

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by maxalmon
http:///forum/post/2830604
For anyone who gets sideways with me grouping gay rights with womens rights and black rights, then you need to go to the library and readup on CIVIL RIGHTS, has nothing to do with religion or anything else. If you want to read up on the dirty underside of hatred, then search for gay atrocities in the United States and you wonder why we are so adamant about now asserting our civil rights
For those who claim that marriage is a man and a woman, then you are claiming religious beliefs should trump my civil rights, again, seperation of church and state.
Give it time, might not pass right now, but it will as more and more people are starting to see that it's nothing more than a civil right and the older generation is dying off and more progressive people are growing up. 20 years ago it would have been 2% for, 98% against, now it's a tight almost 50/50
Hmm sorry. Why not have the rainbow coalition fight to change the way the union laws are written. Fight to have what ever you want added into it.
Again your trying to change the church and that’s the problem, sorry but that’s the way it is. Gay and marriage gets peoples hair up.
Why change church to fit your wants and needs when its simple the way a law was written.

 

[reefreak29]

just let it happen for petes sake . let the rapture begin

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2831960
The country was found on Christian beliefs, when the country started to move away from those principles this country was found on problems started. Now we have a few load mouthed tom ---- and harry spouting off about “I don't believe in this that and the other thing and I don’t solute the flag and don’t like under god on my money, alterative living people should be able to get married and what ever else you want to throw in the mix. Don’t like? Beat it.
Same thing with holidays, christians, jews, Islamic, and every other culture came to america knowing what it was all about. If they don’t like how the US is run, stay out.
I speak English as my first language, Spanish is a second because I had to learn it to graduate. I celebrate Christmas, easter, thanksgiving, and every other holiday and go to church and follow the catholic religion.
I can except alterative life styles and gay unions, that’s fine. You want the same right to cover your life partner in health care and what ever else you see fit, have at it. But when alterative living people want to barge in on my church and feel they should be able to change my church to allow a few peoples feelings, No, not gonna happen.
I could care less that someone is gay, in fact I still play golf with a team member from the ambulance I ride on. Me and my wife go scuba dive together with him and his partner and go to neutral gender bars for a few drinks. He excepts how I feel about the marriage and church idea, so before anyone goes saying im a bigot or I hate anyone, go scratch.
Certain ideas and the way life is just can not be changed to make a few happy and all cozy comfy.
Christian beliefs are what starts half the wars in this world. I would personally agree with a person's alternative lifestyle than deal with overzealous religious freaks that want to control what other people do and say. So because a person doesn't follow your little polish guy with the funny hat who lives the lifestyle of a king, they should leave this country? So exactly why is the Catholic religion above Judeism, Muslim, Baptist, or any other religion? You say you're no a bigot, but tell people who don't want to celebrate YOUR religious holidays, to 'get out and leave'? Think you need to look up the definition of the word.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2830708
It was called many different things in different states. In Florida, Amendment 2, was to define marriage as between one man and one women. It passed.
So then it's fair to sue a church because it doesn't matter that their rights/beliefs are below that of the gay couple that wants to have a ceremony in their church? Or sue the photographer because it doesn't matter what views he have, as long as the gay couple "are equal?"
This is the thing I keep going back and forth on. It's only a matter of time before churches start getting drug into court over this. Civil unions do provide the exact same benefits and rights as long as the law allowing them is written that way.
I am ever so slightly on the against gay marriage side of the fence because I think it is mainly an attempt to redefine "Normal". I am not going to lose any sleep over it one way or another as long as there are civil unions allowed. I think the best resolution is for the states to only have civil unions or kinship contracts and let the churches decide who has a right to marry under their belief system.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2831973
Christian beliefs are what starts half the wars in this world. I would personally agree with a person's alternative lifestyle than deal with overzealous religious freaks that want to control what other people do and say. So because a person doesn't follow your little polish guy with the funny hat who lives the lifestyle of a king, they should leave this country? So exactly why is the Catholic religion above Judeism, Muslim, Baptist, or any other religion? You say you're no a bigot, but tell people who don't want to celebrate YOUR religious holidays, to 'get out and leave'? Think you need to look up the definition of the word.
You are so damed out of touch

The Polish guy died a few years ago.
Now it's a old German guy but he still has the funny hat

 

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2831973
Christian beliefs are what starts half the wars in this world. I would personally agree with a person's alternative lifestyle than deal with overzealous religious freaks that want to control what other people do and say. So because a person doesn't follow your little polish guy with the funny hat who lives the lifestyle of a king, they should leave this country? So exactly why is the Catholic religion above Judeism, Muslim, Baptist, or any other religion? You say you're no a bigot, but tell people who don't want to celebrate YOUR religious holidays, to 'get out and leave'? Think you need to look up the definition of the word.
I never said I fully agreed with the catholic religion either. First off, your right, to believe that one person has the answers and that I have to donate money to keep my faith is a joke.
I’m not some religious fanatical freak. If that was the case I would spouting off damn all gays and the souls of gay people will burn for ever and all that BS.
I never said anyone had to celebrate catholic holidays. That’s just asinine. BUT if you don’t like or want to celebrate Christmas or easter or what ever holidays that’s not part of their religion don’t shame people who do by coming up nonsense. Ostracizing another religion because one celebrates Christmas over hanukkah or ramadan is ignorant. But because Christmas is more publicized over the others and state that one religion is insulted because a dept store has Christmas trees and santa clause is insulting and make a big public out crying is also ignorant.
But to sit their and say that Christian beliefs are what starts half the wars in this world, all religions start wars. Religion is once of the biggest cause of war.
Shall not kill, shall not steal, bla bla bla its just basic law, that happens to be based off religion.
But now should we argue and change basic law because they re based off religion commandments?
So your right. I maybe a bigot if you try and change the way I have to feel about my beliefs and religion.
If that helps you lay your little head on the tear stained pillow at night because the worlds a mean place then fine. I can live with it.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2831985
You are so damed out of touch

The Polish guy died a few years ago.
Now it's a old German guy but he still has the funny hat

Naw, I knew where he's from. Polish just sounded better. German just doesn't fit the pope.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2832177
I never said I fully agreed with the catholic religion either. First off, your right, to believe that one person has the answers and that I have to donate money to keep my faith is a joke.
I’m not some religious fanatical freak. If that was the case I would spouting off damn all gays and the souls of gay people will burn for ever and all that BS.
I never said anyone had to celebrate catholic holidays. That’s just asinine. BUT if you don’t like or want to celebrate Christmas or easter or what ever holidays that’s not part of their religion don’t shame people who do by coming up nonsense. Ostracizing another religion because one celebrates Christmas over hanukkah or ramadan is ignorant. But because Christmas is more publicized over the others and state that one religion is insulted because a dept store has Christmas trees and santa clause is insulting and make a big public out crying is also ignorant.
But to sit their and say that Christian beliefs are what starts half the wars in this world, all religions start wars. Religion is once of the biggest cause of war.
Shall not kill, shall not steal, bla bla bla its just basic law, that happens to be based off religion.
But now should we argue and change basic law because they re based off religion commandments?
So your right. I maybe a bigot if you try and change the way I have to feel about my beliefs and religion.
If that helps you lay your little head on the tear stained pillow at night because the worlds a mean place then fine. I can live with it.

You want to believe in your religious values? Go for it. Doesn't bother me in the least. But at the same time, if I don't want to follow your beliefs, don't force me to. Abortions, gay rights, stem cell research -- all of these are restricted specifically because of religious beliefs. If religion wasn't brought into the mix, none of these would have the government involved and have the restrictions they do.
You're the one crying about how businesses have to say Season's Greetings instead of Merry Christmas. Why is it that way? Ambulance chasers. The lawyers are who got that changed. Can't offend someone. That's one of your other Constitutional Amendments. Can't have a high school mascot named after an American Indian. Can't have a Rebel Flag because it reminds the blacks of slavery. Blame the legal regime for those, not religion.

 

[sharkbait9]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2832306
You want to believe in your religious values? Go for it. Doesn't bother me in the least. But at the same time, if I don't want to follow your beliefs, don't force me to. Abortions, gay rights, stem cell research -- all of these are restricted specifically because of religious beliefs. If religion wasn't brought into the mix, none of these would have the government involved and have the restrictions they do.
You're the one crying about how businesses have to say Season's Greetings instead of Merry Christmas. Why is it that way? Ambulance chasers. The lawyers are who got that changed. Can't offend someone. That's one of your other Constitutional Amendments. Can't have a high school mascot named after an American Indian. Can't have a Rebel Flag because it reminds the blacks of slavery. Blame the legal regime for those, not religion.

I will agree with you, BUT who do we blame? While yes, the lawyers are the one doing the dirty work, its the self absorbed, self important, egotistical, self gratifying A-hole who blames society for their lackluster self loathing opinion of their own self worth that has to go after everyone else who does not make them feel good about them selves who hired the lawyers to begin with to sue the person or company who hurt their little child feelings. Or scream discrimination about a holiday that is the main focal point of a season. Sorry when some one says seasons greetings to me, I reply merry Christmas to you. Sorry don’t care, you felt you had to say seasons greetings to me to begin with.
Yet what’s the season icon? Santa clause. Yet when I’m driving around on the fire truck bringing santa around town for everyone to see the O’l fat man himself everyone comes a running.
We can’t have anything or object that may offend a group or class of people, Indians, flags, Spanish, Italians, Irish they all hope on the band wagon because someone or something is intolerant of the other.
Its just plain BS. Indians, braves, chiefs, redskins, the fighting Irish they were all fighters who fought with great skill, so they name teams after them turns out they are self absorbed and worried about how others would interpret the names.
I’m Italian/irish the sopranos did not offend me, my mothers and fathers family are off the boat, smell like garlic and make a great sauce. know why we have stereo types? because there is truth behind it. Yes Italians slick back their hair and drive irocs and were gold like its going out of style and some even take Italian showers. My wife side is Irish they drink their beer get skunked. They also make sure to eat potatoes with their meals. The problem is the truth hurts, and NO ONE likes to look in a mirror and have the truth stare back at them, no one. So instead of dealing with the truth everyone goes and cries and wants all the ugly hidden away and make it some stupid law to prevent the truth from rearing its ugly head.
That’s why I’m always saying grow thicker skin, the faster people can deal with the ugly the better off they will be. But no its a lot easier and a lot more gratifying to make others speak nice.
What ever helps you lay your head on the tear stained pillow at night, just don’t expect me to be so nice when you ask a question, cause the truth is gonna kill you.
Sorry I call like I see it, and I can be a real .......

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by sharkbait9
http:///forum/post/2833128
I will agree with you, BUT who do we blame? While yes, the lawyers are the one doing the dirty work, its the self absorbed, self important, egotistical, self gratifying A-hole who blames society for their lackluster self loathing opinion of their own self worth that has to go after everyone else who does not make them feel good about them selves who hired the lawyers to begin with to sue the person or company who hurt their little child feelings. Or scream discrimination about a holiday that is the main focal point of a season. Sorry when some one says seasons greetings to me, I reply merry Christmas to you. Sorry don’t care, you felt you had to say seasons greetings to me to begin with.
Yet what’s the season icon? Santa clause. Yet when I’m driving around on the fire truck bringing santa around town for everyone to see the O’l fat man himself everyone comes a running.
We can’t have anything or object that may offend a group or class of people, Indians, flags, Spanish, Italians, Irish they all hope on the band wagon because someone or something is intolerant of the other.
Its just plain BS. Indians, braves, chiefs, redskins, the fighting Irish they were all fighters who fought with great skill, so they name teams after them turns out they are self absorbed and worried about how others would interpret the names.
I’m Italian/irish the sopranos did not offend me, my mothers and fathers family are off the boat, smell like garlic and make a great sauce. know why we have stereo types? because there is truth behind it. Yes Italians slick back their hair and drive irocs and were gold like its going out of style and some even take Italian showers. My wife side is Irish they drink their beer get skunked. They also make sure to eat potatoes with their meals. The problem is the truth hurts, and NO ONE likes to look in a mirror and have the truth stare back at them, no one. So instead of dealing with the truth everyone goes and cries and wants all the ugly hidden away and make it some stupid law to prevent the truth from rearing its ugly head.
That’s why I’m always saying grow thicker skin, the faster people can deal with the ugly the better off they will be. But no its a lot easier and a lot more gratifying to make others speak nice.
What ever helps you lay your head on the tear stained pillow at night, just don’t expect me to be so nice when you ask a question, cause the truth is gonna kill you.
Sorry I call like I see it, and I can be a real .......
You need to come up with a new cliche Fire Marshall Bill. Think you've used the 'lay your head on tear stained pillow' bit too many times already.