Protein skimmer - Just for Nitrates?

mademperor

Member
My father is convinced, and so are his expert friends that a Protein skimmer is only for Nitrates.
I was under the impression that it will pull other nasty stuff out of the water. I have a small one that makes a dish of green/brown nasty smelling water 1x day. I would think that contributes to more than -Nitrates (seeing how mine were 0 before I put the skimmer in)
 

reefkprz

Active Member
ok well. he's wrong protiens skimmers can also extract
Aluminum
Antimony
Arsenic
Barium
Beryllium
Boron
Cadmium
Calcium
Chromium
Cobalt
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Lead
Lithium
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Nickel
Phosphorus
Potassium
Silicon
Sodium
Strontium
Sulfur
Thallium
Tin
Titanium
Vanadium
Yttrium
Zinc
did I leave anything out?
 

reefkprz

Active Member
oh yes I did miss something they also pull small microfauna out of the tank and algae particles. (any thing small enough to stick to a microbubbles surface tension) including fine sand particles.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
oh snap! I almost forgot skimmers can remove nitrite nitrate ammonia, fat, and other raw protien.
in general you can asay a skimmer it for reducing nitrates but thats a blanket statement while ssemi accurate does not convey the total use of the device. a skimmer is not just for nitrates its a foam fractionation device. and removes many things some we consider benificial some we consider detrimental.....
 

mademperor

Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
is that too much info?
Thanks for the info. I thought it was for alot of stuff.
By the way. Shoudl I be getting a thin layer of water under the foam in the collection cup?
The water is nasty...
 

reefkprz

Active Member
yeah that happens, the dryer you set your skimm the less water there will be but the longer it will take to fill the cup, the water is the results of the poped bubbles. make sure you wash your collection cup when you dump it, the gunk contains more of everything that your skimmer removes in higher concentrations (with a few exceptions)
 

angler man

Member
Wow, so the skimmer also pulls out the trace elements we need? Do the skimmer and salt manufacturers work together to

[hr]
us?
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Angler man
Wow, so the skimmer also pulls out the trace elements we need? Do the skimmer and salt manufacturers work together to

[hr]
us?

Skimmers don't pull out trace elements.
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
oh snap! I almost forgot skimmers can remove nitrite nitrate ammonia, fat, and other raw protien.
in general you can asay a skimmer it for reducing nitrates but thats a blanket statement while ssemi accurate does not convey the total use of the device. a skimmer is not just for nitrates its a foam fractionation device. and removes many things some we consider benificial some we consider detrimental.....
Where are you getting all of this from? I had stated that you had this question under control, but I deleted it after actualy reading what you had posted. You went a little overboard here. Are you suggesting that a skimmer is a bad thing? Skimmers remove organics from the water before they breakdown and become an ammonia source leading to nitrates. They don't remove trace elements, ammonia, nitrite, metals or many of the other things that you mentioned.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
sorry sepulatian, but yes they do.
they remove all kinds of things in various amounts. in fact skimmer are exceedingly efficient at pulling calcium out of our tanks. I dont think I said skimmers are bad. I just noted all the things skimmers are capable of removing from our tanks in any amount (small or large)
skimmers are capable of removing ANY organic or element that is susceptible to adhesion to surface tension. not just protien. some of the things on the list are removed in very minute amounts but they are removed.
the source of the information is a research study conducted by ronald l shimek phd on the efficiency of various forms of nutrient export the study included skimmate, skimmer sludge, caulerpa exfolia, and xenia. he ran tests to detect what amounts of what were in each type in question.
personally I like skimmers, IMO their benefits outweigh any possible detrimantal effects caused by removing some of the other things.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
here is a quote from his article/research study results
"Just about everything in a tank appears to be exported by skimming, albeit in often very low concentrations. "
this too is from his research study
"Possibly of more concern is the export of calcium by all of the exports. Significant amounts of calcium are is found in all of the exports; skimmate contains about 2200 ppm calcium, sludge about 37000 ppm, Caulerpa about 1743 ppm and Xenia about 3350 ppm. Put another way, the analyzed sample of skimmer sludge was 3.7 percent, by weight calcium"
(quotes from Ronald L. Shimek, Down The Drain: Exports From Marine Aquaria)
the part that gets me there is 37000 ppm in skimmer sludge thats a lot of calcium removal.
 

dragonzim

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
ok well. he's wrong protiens skimmers can also extract
Aluminum
Antimony
Arsenic
Barium
Beryllium
Boron
Cadmium
Calcium
Chromium
Cobalt
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Lead
Lithium
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Nickel
Phosphorus
Potassium
Silicon
Sodium
Strontium
Sulfur
Thallium
Tin
Titanium
Vanadium
Yttrium
Zinc
did I leave anything out?

Um yes, you left out the fish poop!
 

perfectdark

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
ok well. he's wrong protiens skimmers can also extract
Aluminum
Antimony
Arsenic
Barium
Beryllium
Boron
Cadmium
Calcium
Chromium
Cobalt
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Lead
Lithium
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Nickel
Phosphorus
Potassium
Silicon
Sodium
Strontium
Sulfur
Thallium
Tin
Titanium
Vanadium
Yttrium
Zinc
did I leave anything out?

DUDE, You even put them in alphabetical order !!
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by mademperor
My father is convinced, and so are his expert friends that a Protein skimmer is only for Nitrates.
I was under the impression that it will pull other nasty stuff out of the water. I have a small one that makes a dish of green/brown nasty smelling water 1x day. I would think that contributes to more than -Nitrates (seeing how mine were 0 before I put the skimmer in)
As far as I'm concerned, that cup of foul smelling stuff I take out of my tank could be kryptonite.... all I know is it can't be a good thing to leave in the tank.
 

dinogeorge

Member
Sepulatian is right.
Protein skimmers remove…protein. All of the other elements listed are the end result of having too much water flow going through the skimmer and therefore the bubbles are dragging with them other elements never intended to be removed through this process. The research shown says nothing about the controls used in the skimmer that gave them these results.
If you set your water flow too fast, then your cup will be filled to the top in no time with some slightly dark water. Within that water are a bunch of trace elements. But if you have your skimmer set correctly, then the “stuff” in your cup is very thick, dark and smelly. THAT is just protein and very little water….which in turn means very few trace elements.
As a scientist the first thing I question in someone’s research results is what process was used to monitor those results? Did they adjust the water flow of the skimmers and test and re-test the results, or did they simple set up a skimmers and test the water collected in the cup?
Mademperor, this is for you and your father – Proteins are created in your tank by fish waste, uneaten food and decomposing things in your tank. The proteins, if left in your tank, will break down into ammonia. Your bacteria in your tank will eat this ammonia and break it further down into nitrite. Your secondary bacteria will eat this nitrite and break it down into nitrate. The idea of a skimmer is to rid your tank of the proteins before they become toxic.
Protein molecules are attracted to the skin of bubbles. When a bubble rises in your tank, the proteins adhere to it. When the bubble reaches the surface and pops, the proteins fall back into the tank. A protein skimmer creates a lot of bubbles in a confined area so that a lot of protein can have something to hang on to. As the bubbles rise in your skimmer, so does the proteins. When they reach the top, the bubbles below are pushing the upper bubbles along with an accumulation of proteins, up into the neck of the skimmer. Once they reach the top, the bubbles break and the protein is forces over the lip of the cup and fall down into the bottom. The faster your water is flowing through the skimmer, the more water is being pushed up into the neck. If your setting is too fast, then more and more water is being forced into the neck and ultimately the cup fills up really fast. THIS is how trace elements can be lost. But if your settings are done right, and you have less water in the cup, but more dark smell “goo”, then ALL you are taking out of your tank is exactly what you WANT out of your tank…and that is protein!
Good luck man.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Yes but...
No protein skimmer is 100% effective. Let's face it; protein molecules are not "wet". Therefore some water is being taken out of the tank every time we dump a collection cup.
The study Reefkprz sited studied the makeup of the water being removed.
 

dinogeorge

Member
Of course “some” water is being taken out of the tank through this process. But my point is that if the research results quoted were the normal result of EVERY skimmer, then anyone using a skimmer would all see a major depletion of trace elements, and that is just not the fact. To list all of those elements is, in my opinion, inaccurate unless the equipment is not set correctly.
 
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