Puffer dead and out of this hobby

[srfisher17]

IMO; you can rule out all the references to nitrates. Nitrates at 40ppm will not hurt fish at all( not referring to coral/inverts, just fish). If I'm wrong, could someone point to a source that says otherwise? I really don't know where all the nitrate-fishphiboia comes from. I do agree with Crimzy; a healthy tank should never have any ammonia.

 

[natclanwy]

A FO tank can tolerate nitrates up to 100ppm while not ideal most fish will be fine with nitrates in this range. Having any kind of measurable ammonia a year after the tank is setup is cause for alarm and a much more likely cause than the nitrate.

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2963861
Ok I have no motivation anymore to stay in this hobby I've done plenty of research and I just don't get why this fish has died over the course of 2 days. It's a Porcupine Puffer and I acclimated it over 2 hours or so it seemed healthy and about for about a day or so it even ate some clam. Next morning I wake up it's upper portion of it's body is somewhat swollen a tad and discolored and it was breathing heavier than normal. It wouldn't eat at all. It died the next morning when I woke up and I just don't get it anymore.
What in the world could have caused it's death ? I've kept other fish a lot more delicate than a puffer and they've stayed alive much longer. I've tested my water after I removed the puffer and discarded him to be 100% sure of what is going on with my water's chemistry. Results are as follows:
AMMONIA : 0-0.25
NITRITE : 0
NITRATE : 40 PPM
PH : 8.2
TEMPERATURE: 79 F
SALINITY : 1.023
AGE OF WATER : ABOUT 1 YEAR
WATER CHANGE : 20% 3 DAYS AGO
Equipment ( 55 gallon tank ) :
1) Seaclone 100 with maxijet 1200 powerhead
2) Emperor 400 with chemi pure/ purigen
3) Stealth Heater 300 W
4) Maxi Jet 1200 power head
5) 45 LB live rock
6) 1 1/2 inch DSB
7) 20 snails and 3 hermit crabs are the only livestock in there currently
Any help appreciated because I just don't get it anymore and I'm about to tear down my tank as I just do not understand what is going on anymore. The longest I've kept any fish for was about 1 year which was my yellow tang and humu picasso trigger.
it could be that the fish had some pre existing condition. a 55 is too small for tangs and triggers and puffers too. dont tear it down. do a 50% water change and let it go for a week or two. then add a few chromis or clown fish and see how they do for a few months. dont give up! start over slowly.

 

[bdhb12]

Hey did you QT the puffer? And did/does he have a warranty?

 

[alienhybridx]

nope I didn't QT him and theres no warranty sadly cause the store I bought it from doesn't give refunds or credit for any reason on saltwater fish
I decided to stick to this hobby but i am going at it really slow this time around and i have 2-3 questions i'd like answered
1) does the emperor 400's bio wheels add nitrates back to the tank over a period of many months or ?? ( i cleaned mine with freshwater ) are they really needed or can i just lose them ?
2) if i do a 50% water change with the cycled water in the tank and cured live rock would it affect the water chemistry in anyway ?
3) if i keep my nitrates lower than 20 at all times i shouldn't see a fish die due to poor water quality unless the fish was unhealthy to begin with ?
thank you all
edit: i tested my freshwater source aka tap water and to my surprise it's 0 nitrates so i can rule that out for raising my nitrates so the only thing left would have to be possibly the bio wheels on my emperor 400 or the sand bed ( i used sugar fine aragonite sand over crushed coral )

 

[jpa0741]

Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2964447
nope I didn't QT him and theres no warranty sadly cause the store I bought it from doesn't give refunds or credit for any reason on saltwater fish
I decided to stick to this hobby but i am going at it really slow this time around and i have 2-3 questions i'd like answered
1) does the emperor 400's bio wheels add nitrates back to the tank over a period of many months or ?? ( i cleaned mine with freshwater ) are they really needed or can i just lose them ?
2) if i do a 50% water change with the cycled water in the tank and cured live rock would it affect the water chemistry in anyway ?
3) if i keep my nitrates lower than 20 at all times i shouldn't see a fish die due to poor water quality unless the fish was unhealthy to begin with ?
thank you all
edit: i tested my freshwater source aka tap water and to my surprise it's 0 nitrates so i can rule that out for raising my nitrates so the only thing left would have to be possibly the bio wheels on my emperor 400 or the sand bed ( i used sugar fine aragonite sand over crushed coral )
1. Yes bio wheels can add nitrates if it gets dirty and not cleaned and changed out as needed. If you have enough LR in the tank there is no need for it anyways. Just take the wheel out and let it run for flow. Also how much flow do you have?
2. 50% water change shouldn't hurt anything. Just make sure it is to proper temp and PH.
3. As stated above fish can tolerate high trates. It would take alot for it to kill a fish. Your fish could of had an internal parasite to begin with.
The crushed coral can be a problem.
As stated also. Many of the fish you had die was probably caused from the tank being to small. Tangs, triggers, puffers don't belong in a 55.

 

[jesse!]

Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2963861
Ok I have no motivation anymore to stay in this hobby I've done plenty of research and I just don't get why this fish has died over the course of 2 days. It's a Porcupine Puffer and I acclimated it over 2 hours or so it seemed healthy and about for about a day or so it even ate some clam. Next morning I wake up it's upper portion of it's body is somewhat swollen a tad and discolored and it was breathing heavier than normal. It wouldn't eat at all. It died the next morning when I woke up and I just don't get it anymore.
What in the world could have caused it's death ? I've kept other fish a lot more delicate than a puffer and they've stayed alive much longer. I've tested my water after I removed the puffer and discarded him to be 100% sure of what is going on with my water's chemistry. Results are as follows:
AMMONIA : 0-0.25
NITRITE : 0
NITRATE : 40 PPM
PH : 8.2
TEMPERATURE: 79 F
SALINITY : 1.023
AGE OF WATER : ABOUT 1 YEAR
WATER CHANGE : 20% 3 DAYS AGO
Equipment ( 55 gallon tank ) :
1) Seaclone 100 with maxijet 1200 powerhead
2) Emperor 400 with chemi pure/ purigen
3) Stealth Heater 300 W
4) Maxi Jet 1200 power head
5) 45 LB live rock
6) 1 1/2 inch DSB
7) 20 snails and 3 hermit crabs are the only livestock in there currently
Any help appreciated because I just don't get it anymore and I'm about to tear down my tank as I just do not understand what is going on anymore. The longest I've kept any fish for was about 1 year which was my yellow tang and humu picasso trigger.

This is so much fun (yet expensive), don't let a fish's death finish of your hobby. IMO Its not worth it, maybe it would be different if my puffer died. Sorry.
-Jesse

 

[alienhybridx]

yea i cried a little cause he was the cutest pet i've ever kept got my hopes up and now yea...
i will be doing a 50% water change in a few days and let the water mature even further and then get a clownfish and stay with that and my inverts for a few weeks and see how things go and monitor my nitrates on a weekly basis
i will remove the bio wheels most likely or just get new ones
thank you all for your kind support I love this hobby and it will forever stay with me I just had to overcome these small problems as i've learned so much yet there's much more to learn from this especially from other people's experiences !

 

[natclanwy]

Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2964447
1) does the emperor 400's bio wheels add nitrates back to the tank over a period of many months or ?? ( i cleaned mine with freshwater ) are they really needed or can i just lose them ?
If they aren't kept clean after a few months they will start to leach nitrates back into the water, they really need to be cleaned every 2-3 weeks to prevent this from occurring.
Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2964447
2) if i do a 50% water change with the cycled water in the tank and cured live rock would it affect the water chemistry in anyway ?
I have to clarify this for you a little, the water in your tank is not cycled your tank is cycled you could actually remove all of the water and replace it with new water without restarting the cycle. This is because almost all of the bacteria that process the waste in your aquarium live on all of the hard surfaces of your aquarium, there is some present in the water column but not a significant portion. Depending on how out of whack your water chemistry is it could potentially change your water chemistry because the you will be removing any toxins that have built up in the tank and replenishing the trace minerals. Neither should bother your tank inhabitants so long as the water coming back is similar in PH, SG, and temperature.
Originally Posted by AlienHybridX
http:///forum/post/2964447
3) if i keep my nitrates lower than 20 at all times i shouldn't see a fish die due to poor water quality unless the fish was unhealthy to begin with ?
Not necessarily, high nitrite and ammonia will kill a fish much faster than nitrates will and you can have ammonia or nitrite present with 20ppm of nitrate. Also your PH and SG can play a factor especially when adding new fish. If you do not do regular water changes you could also end up with toxins that slowly build up over time and eventually reach toxic levels especially when using tap water for your water changes there are many components that could be present in tap water that the average hobbiest cannot test for.

 

[nordy]

I have had a couple of puffers in my 55 over the years-one went carpet surfing

and I gave one away when I switched to a reef setup. Based on my experience with puffers, and the fact that my tank was established, but not what I would call pristine (I never tested for ammonia/nitrates when it was FOWLR) even though I did do water changes, and had a sump running I think you got either a sick fish or the clam was bad. My puffers, a couple of dogface puffers, were the coolest fish-they would come up to the edge of my tank when I was on the computer and spit watr at me to get my attention! I fed them mysis cubes and they thrived on that diet. As a general suggestion, I would suggest more LR and that you get a sump for your tank as well. The sump works well and I still have it in my reef setup.
BTW, I am a beleiver in the Seaclone-I have the 150 model with the MJ 1200 and it has consistently pulled a lot of dark gunky skimmate out of my tank.
Good luck in the future with your tank!

 

[alienhybridx]

yea i think it was the clam that i fed the fish and im about to punch myself in the face because if it was bad water quality i'm sure he would have shown signs of stress in the first day
it's funny though the very day after i fed him the clam he showed problems go figure

 

[defcon11]

I'm no real expert but maybe the ammonia reading was caused by the fish being dead in the tank. If the fish died during the night he would immediately start to decay, and that would lead to an elevated ammonia reading. Also, nitrates sometimes can also be confused with phosphates, or something like that. I haven't seen anyone say anything about phosphates.
Don't give up, this is way cooler than owning a ferret or snake as a pet.

 

[darthtang aw]

May seem like a stupid question, but how old are your test kits? Those things have a shelf life and will skew readings if old.
And sounds to me like the major clean up you did in the tank before hand stirred something up and spiked your trates.

 

[natclanwy]

Originally Posted by defcon11
http:///forum/post/2964892
I'm no real expert but maybe the ammonia reading was caused by the fish being dead in the tank. If the fish died during the night he would immediately start to decay, and that would lead to an elevated ammonia reading. Also, nitrates sometimes can also be confused with phosphates, or something like that. I haven't seen anyone say anything about phosphates.
Don't give up, this is way cooler than owning a ferret or snake as a pet.
A healthy tank should be able to deal with a single small dead fish without an ammonia spike especially if it is removed after a single day.
Nitrates and Phosphates are two completely different unrelated properties and Phosphates are not directly toxic to fish.

 

[darthtang aw]

Also, if your powerheads aren't protected from sucking uo live stock, the puffer could have managed to get sucked to it and that might account for the swelling and stress. I have seen this.

 

[alienhybridx]

thanks for the valuable information ! i'm doing a 50% water change today and checking everything twice
that's funny you should ask but my test kits are about 4 years old and they seem to be ok on test results because when I tested my tank it showed me around 40 ppm for nitrates and then I tested another source showed it at 0 heh
I think the ammonia was at 0 just couldn't tell well enough
what test kit would you recommend that gives me easy to read results ??? better than API at least

 

[wildjosh]

I have been where you are right now. I have been so fed up with the hobby that I want to break everything down and sell it off. I got to a point where i was close and then I thought about it. Its almost like you are at the point of no return. you are going to lose money either way, right. I looked at what I had and made the tough choice to push on. I bought a new Skimmer and a RO/DI filter and some other things I knew I needed and since then its been great. For me it was the right choice, I really love the hobby and nothing makes me happier then coming home from work and spending time working on the tank or just watching it. You have the make the choice that makes sense for you. But like I said at this point you are going to lose money either way. you will never be able to recoup all the money you spent, so slowly save and get the stuff you need. there is no rush, you don't have to buy everything all at once.

 

[prime311]

I wouldn't worry about the levels of your water as you are reporting them. 40 Nitrates won't kill any salt water fish. I would first make sure you're tests are being accuretely reported. For example if you use a Hydrometer that is reporting SG 1.023 you're SG might actually be 1.030 or some other toxic level since Hydrometers lose accuracy over time. Take your water to a fish store and have them confirm your tests.

 

[meadbhb]

Hiya,
I also had high nitrates with a penguin, it had two bio wheels. One of my LFS recommended I take them out and use it for flow and if needed a place to put carbon or just a plain filter pad. I was still having nitrate problems, but I'd also forgot to CLEAN the penguin out. I'd just removed the wheels. Well, last weekend I took another sample into the same store and when I asked him what my nitrates were he said none. I thought he was messing with me, but he showed me the test....NO NITRATES!!! Needless to say, I was doing a happy dance!
Oh and I also have the argonite based coral in my tank. I haven't had any problems with it solidifying and my banded goby and shrimp are doing just fine in it.
Kim/Meadbhb

 

[naclfish]

Dont Give Up