zoidberg01
Member
Feed them twice as much as you give them to make sure they can last
Putting in a sand substrate.
- Thread starter grant778
- Start date
silverado61
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoidberg01 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535803
Feed them twice as much as you give them to make sure they can last
WHAT? Are you kidding me? Why would you feed any fish twice as much as you normally would? That would just create ammonia in the tank. Ammonia-kills-fish-and-corals. Wanting to be a vet when you grow up I'd think you would know that and advise against over feeding.
Fish don't store their food. They eat what they want in about three minutes. The rest goes to waste and rots turning into ammonia.
Originally Posted by zoidberg01 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535803
Feed them twice as much as you give them to make sure they can last
WHAT? Are you kidding me? Why would you feed any fish twice as much as you normally would? That would just create ammonia in the tank. Ammonia-kills-fish-and-corals. Wanting to be a vet when you grow up I'd think you would know that and advise against over feeding.
Fish don't store their food. They eat what they want in about three minutes. The rest goes to waste and rots turning into ammonia.
zoidberg01
Member
It all depends on how you feed them
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoidberg01 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535807
It all depends on how you feed them
Hi,
You are going to have to stop giving advice. You need to get some learning under your belt before you go giving out your thoughts, I feel like all I do is damage control. New folks on the site may not know an understand you are only a 13 year old kid. Wouldn't you feel horrible if some beginner crashed his tank on your very way out there off advice?
There is nothing wrong with joining the conversation, and I too sometimes mess up, and thankfully Bang Guy or another knowledgeable person speaks up, but you give out bad advice like a rolling river of misinformation. I don't mean to get onto you....I just need you to slow down and think before you post. Spend some time asking questions. Put your beliefs out there like you are double checking on something you learned or thought. Folks will let you know they agree with you, or correct things and explain the why...that way we all learn.
Originally Posted by zoidberg01 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535807
It all depends on how you feed them
Hi,
You are going to have to stop giving advice. You need to get some learning under your belt before you go giving out your thoughts, I feel like all I do is damage control. New folks on the site may not know an understand you are only a 13 year old kid. Wouldn't you feel horrible if some beginner crashed his tank on your very way out there off advice?
There is nothing wrong with joining the conversation, and I too sometimes mess up, and thankfully Bang Guy or another knowledgeable person speaks up, but you give out bad advice like a rolling river of misinformation. I don't mean to get onto you....I just need you to slow down and think before you post. Spend some time asking questions. Put your beliefs out there like you are double checking on something you learned or thought. Folks will let you know they agree with you, or correct things and explain the why...that way we all learn.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate#post_3535712
I have heard that putting in live sand would cause an ammonia spike. Is that true? I wouldn't do it all at once so it probably wouldn't cloud up the water too much. I think I would put the bag with the rinsed sand at the bottom of the tank and carefully spread it out after I had scooped out an area of crushed coral.
Hi,
The problem is more then cloudy water....
Going on what Silverado said, about it can be done real slow....The ammonia spike is not caused from the live sand, but rather removing the established substrate where so much of your good bacteria resides. By going slow and remove a little and replace a little...you will be fine to swap it out....You could push all the CC to one side, or toward he back...remove none of it just yet..... then add the new sand, two inches deep on the other side, where the bare patch was made...then every few days remove a fist full or two of the CC, and add that amount of sand.
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate#post_3535712
I have heard that putting in live sand would cause an ammonia spike. Is that true? I wouldn't do it all at once so it probably wouldn't cloud up the water too much. I think I would put the bag with the rinsed sand at the bottom of the tank and carefully spread it out after I had scooped out an area of crushed coral.
Hi,
The problem is more then cloudy water....
Going on what Silverado said, about it can be done real slow....The ammonia spike is not caused from the live sand, but rather removing the established substrate where so much of your good bacteria resides. By going slow and remove a little and replace a little...you will be fine to swap it out....You could push all the CC to one side, or toward he back...remove none of it just yet..... then add the new sand, two inches deep on the other side, where the bare patch was made...then every few days remove a fist full or two of the CC, and add that amount of sand.
silverado61
Well-Known Member
Thanks flower. You worded it better than I did. How's damage control going? lol
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535821
And also, should I add all the sand I have to the area I clear so it is really deep and then take out a bit of CC and move some sand over everyday, or should I just wash and add a little sand at a time?
I would use live sand from a bag, it's just loaded with good bacteria, so it can't hurt....or better yet, live reef sand which already has live critters in it....You can move faster with live reef sand, but it still doesn't have the right balance of good bacteria to allow an all out change, you will still have to add a bit and remove a bit, you can just do larger swaps.
I don't recommend (it isn't set in stone or anything) to have sand deeper then 2 inches even during the swap. That way the CUC can sift it, and no toxins can get trapped in it, but since you intend to move it, a few days shouldn't create a problem like that...but the wider the area, the more good bacteria colonies can build on it as opposed to a big pile. . The only thing you are trying to do is maintain the good bacteria levels. With live sand you don't rinse it...put the sand in a net and gently release it at the bottom of the tank, where you cleared it...it shouldn't cloud anything up real bad, and it will settle pretty fast. Just don't go swishing it around, put the sand filled net on the spot where you want it, and using the other hand gently turn it over to release the sand to the tank, don't worry about what won't come off by shaking it or anything, just remove the net.
You need to decide on the depth you want your substrate, some SW critters require at least 4 inches (burrowing fish, like wrasses) and some even deeper (tube anemones)...so set your tank up to house the critters you want to put in it. Planning ahead will always work to your advantage. Most tanks and critters are good at 2 inches....the fish move it around where they want it anyway, so some spots will end up deeper and some areas much more shallow..
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535821
And also, should I add all the sand I have to the area I clear so it is really deep and then take out a bit of CC and move some sand over everyday, or should I just wash and add a little sand at a time?
I would use live sand from a bag, it's just loaded with good bacteria, so it can't hurt....or better yet, live reef sand which already has live critters in it....You can move faster with live reef sand, but it still doesn't have the right balance of good bacteria to allow an all out change, you will still have to add a bit and remove a bit, you can just do larger swaps.
I don't recommend (it isn't set in stone or anything) to have sand deeper then 2 inches even during the swap. That way the CUC can sift it, and no toxins can get trapped in it, but since you intend to move it, a few days shouldn't create a problem like that...but the wider the area, the more good bacteria colonies can build on it as opposed to a big pile. . The only thing you are trying to do is maintain the good bacteria levels. With live sand you don't rinse it...put the sand in a net and gently release it at the bottom of the tank, where you cleared it...it shouldn't cloud anything up real bad, and it will settle pretty fast. Just don't go swishing it around, put the sand filled net on the spot where you want it, and using the other hand gently turn it over to release the sand to the tank, don't worry about what won't come off by shaking it or anything, just remove the net.
You need to decide on the depth you want your substrate, some SW critters require at least 4 inches (burrowing fish, like wrasses) and some even deeper (tube anemones)...so set your tank up to house the critters you want to put in it. Planning ahead will always work to your advantage. Most tanks and critters are good at 2 inches....the fish move it around where they want it anyway, so some spots will end up deeper and some areas much more shallow..
grant778
Member
I already bought 2 packs of aragonite so I would rather use that if I could than go out and buy live sand. I only have three 1 to 1.5 inch fish in my tank so I'm not too worried about an ammonia spike since their is more than enough rock in the tank to house bacteria to break down the fish waste.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535820
I already removed a third of it but next time I will just push it over. When I push it over though wouldn't that cause a spike because when I end up removing it all wouldn't I be removing 2 thirds of the old substrate at once?
Hi,
Just watch the tank for ammonia, if none shows up...you have no problems...I would have some change water on hand while I swapped out the CC...just in case an emergency water change is needed.
The good bacteria is on the open surfaces...rock, sand, even your power heads, decorations and filter materials, very little is actually in the water at all. We replace the filter media to not only capture and remove large yuck from the tank, but we do it often enough to prevent the colonies from getting too comfortable on it...otherwise when we remove it for new clean material, we cause an imbalance.
Removing the substrate is also removing colonies of good bacteria. So ideally you want to give the good bacteria guys the chance to rebuild on the new sand substrate, at the same time as the CC is being removed..
LOL...Todays lesson:
The fish tank is in a balance...the poop and waste is counter acted by the good bacteria, they are in equal numbers....but there can only be enough good bacteria to feed on the amount of waste produced, once an equal balance is reached, the good bacteria guys can't feed and build anymore.... Adding a new fish produces more waste, and the colonies of good bacteria must populate and build more to compensate. That's why we add fish slow, so the tank can adjust to the new waste levels...if you remove their colonies that is built on the substrate, filters and rocks, then the waste is more then the good bacteria, and ammonia spikes are the result.
So to change the substrate from CC to live sand...you have to add and remove it slow, the tank needs time to rebalance and keep your SW critters safe from ammonia spikes.
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535820
I already removed a third of it but next time I will just push it over. When I push it over though wouldn't that cause a spike because when I end up removing it all wouldn't I be removing 2 thirds of the old substrate at once?
Hi,
Just watch the tank for ammonia, if none shows up...you have no problems...I would have some change water on hand while I swapped out the CC...just in case an emergency water change is needed.
The good bacteria is on the open surfaces...rock, sand, even your power heads, decorations and filter materials, very little is actually in the water at all. We replace the filter media to not only capture and remove large yuck from the tank, but we do it often enough to prevent the colonies from getting too comfortable on it...otherwise when we remove it for new clean material, we cause an imbalance.
Removing the substrate is also removing colonies of good bacteria. So ideally you want to give the good bacteria guys the chance to rebuild on the new sand substrate, at the same time as the CC is being removed..
LOL...Todays lesson:
The fish tank is in a balance...the poop and waste is counter acted by the good bacteria, they are in equal numbers....but there can only be enough good bacteria to feed on the amount of waste produced, once an equal balance is reached, the good bacteria guys can't feed and build anymore.... Adding a new fish produces more waste, and the colonies of good bacteria must populate and build more to compensate. That's why we add fish slow, so the tank can adjust to the new waste levels...if you remove their colonies that is built on the substrate, filters and rocks, then the waste is more then the good bacteria, and ammonia spikes are the result.
So to change the substrate from CC to live sand...you have to add and remove it slow, the tank needs time to rebalance and keep your SW critters safe from ammonia spikes.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535819
Thanks flower. You worded it better than I did. How's damage control going? lol
Our young friend is a sweetheart, and just trying to help...I hope I didn't hurt his feelings too much. The teens are a hard age....LOL... and known for knowing everything. So while I want him to get to a point of realizing he don't know it all, I don't want to crush his spirit. Knowledge comes with time and experience, and a crushed spirit is too afraid to speak up...I wouldn't want that to happen.
Originally Posted by silverado61 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535819
Thanks flower. You worded it better than I did. How's damage control going? lol
Our young friend is a sweetheart, and just trying to help...I hope I didn't hurt his feelings too much. The teens are a hard age....LOL... and known for knowing everything. So while I want him to get to a point of realizing he don't know it all, I don't want to crush his spirit. Knowledge comes with time and experience, and a crushed spirit is too afraid to speak up...I wouldn't want that to happen.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535824
I already bought 2 packs of aragonite so I would rather use that if I could than go out and buy live sand. I only have three 1 to 1.5 inch fish in my tank so I'm not too worried about an ammonia spike since their is more than enough rock in the tank to house bacteria to break down the fish waste.
LOL...BLAHHHHH...all the crap I typed before I noticed this post.
There is only enough good bacteria to accommodate the life in the tank....even the snails waste adds to the bioload...even if you only have a single fish...there is ONLY enough good bacteria to keep that one fish going...remove the substrate too fast before you can let it rebuild...and it will cause an ammonia spike, there are no extra colonies of good bacteria...it is perfectly balanced... waste to bacteria numbers.
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535824
I already bought 2 packs of aragonite so I would rather use that if I could than go out and buy live sand. I only have three 1 to 1.5 inch fish in my tank so I'm not too worried about an ammonia spike since their is more than enough rock in the tank to house bacteria to break down the fish waste.
LOL...BLAHHHHH...all the crap I typed before I noticed this post.
There is only enough good bacteria to accommodate the life in the tank....even the snails waste adds to the bioload...even if you only have a single fish...there is ONLY enough good bacteria to keep that one fish going...remove the substrate too fast before you can let it rebuild...and it will cause an ammonia spike, there are no extra colonies of good bacteria...it is perfectly balanced... waste to bacteria numbers.
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535832
I will do it more slowly this time. Would you recommend that tomorrow, which is two days after the 1/3 of the substrate was changed, I do another section but only a very small one? Like a handful or two as you suggested?
Hi,
After waiting a few days...I think it would be okay. It takes a few days for ammonia to rise, and you said you have low bioload....but do a water test first, and don't forget to have change water mixed and ready.
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535832
I will do it more slowly this time. Would you recommend that tomorrow, which is two days after the 1/3 of the substrate was changed, I do another section but only a very small one? Like a handful or two as you suggested?
Hi,
After waiting a few days...I think it would be okay. It takes a few days for ammonia to rise, and you said you have low bioload....but do a water test first, and don't forget to have change water mixed and ready.
silverado61
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535849
Should I feed the fish a little today too, or should I wait one more day to feed them to be on the safe side.
Personally, I would wait till after you test the water to make sure your at the lowest numbers before changing anymore. Then maybe feed the fish a very small portion the day before you do another gravel/sand change because they're not going to be interested in eating afterwards. And like Flower said, make sure you have 24hr. premixed water ready at all times in case you get a rise in ammonia and need to do an emergency water change.
Did you try the soda bottle method for putting the sand in?
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535849
Should I feed the fish a little today too, or should I wait one more day to feed them to be on the safe side.
Personally, I would wait till after you test the water to make sure your at the lowest numbers before changing anymore. Then maybe feed the fish a very small portion the day before you do another gravel/sand change because they're not going to be interested in eating afterwards. And like Flower said, make sure you have 24hr. premixed water ready at all times in case you get a rise in ammonia and need to do an emergency water change.
Did you try the soda bottle method for putting the sand in?
flower
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535849
Should I feed the fish a little today too, or should I wait one more day to feed them to be on the safe side.
Hi,
Poor little critters....You should feed your fish everyday. If you see an ammonia spike do a water change, but don't starve your little friends. I use the stripe type tests for stuff like this, it only takes a second to see if there is ammonia, and any reading means do a change, but I think you will be alright. Most of what we are talking about are precautionary measures.
Originally Posted by grant778 http:///t/396843/putting-in-a-sand-substrate/20#post_3535849
Should I feed the fish a little today too, or should I wait one more day to feed them to be on the safe side.
Hi,
Poor little critters....You should feed your fish everyday. If you see an ammonia spike do a water change, but don't starve your little friends. I use the stripe type tests for stuff like this, it only takes a second to see if there is ammonia, and any reading means do a change, but I think you will be alright. Most of what we are talking about are precautionary measures.