QT Dragonet fish???????

novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish#post_3497191
So basically your saying that there is no way to introduce more pods for the length of the QT. Adding pods weekly would assist in this.
No, basically I'm saying nothing of the kind. Of course you can introduce more pods during QT. For most people this would mean adding a bottle of pods every couple of days, as the fish goes through them quickly. $20 average for the bottle, multiplied by 15 (every other day for 30 days) is a $300 investment for a single fish....a little outlandish for most people. Yes, you can also breed your own if you have the simple tools set up and ready to go, and yes, you can also have a larger, productive QT with a sump and live rock....but as you can see I wasn't talking about that; I was talking about a standard 10 or 20g QT setup (barebottom, HOB filter, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish#post_3497191
Your assessment is not taking into fact that although the mandarin does not have showing signs of ICH it can still have the parasite.
Yes it is. Let me repost:
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish#post_3496942
QT'ing a mandarin even for a full month may or may not be truly effective with ich. As has been stated...they have a heavy slime coat that (1) resists the parasite and (2) makes it difficult to see if there IS a parasite burrowing into the skin.
I'm a little curious....where in my post did I claim the Mandarin couldn't get ich?? Resistant doesn't mean impervious, as Greg's photo aptly demonstrated. You seem to be implying that I said something that I very clearly did not, but maybe I was misreading your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali1985 http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish#post_3497191
For that matter you can get ICH transported via a coral frag or even rock and sand. Even coral dips won't kill ICH. The point im trying to make is that you are playing russian roulette with your other tank inhabitants if you introduce anything into your tank without QT. I will state this 1000 times the fish you put into your tank does not have to be "showing signs" of ICH for it to carry the disease.
Yes, I understand the life cycle. It is completely possible for a coral or rock to have a C. irritans cyst on it. In a perfect world, we would QT every single thing that goes into the tank. There's a saying that "if it's wet, QT it...." that is very appropriate. Truth of the matter is, however, very few people QT EVERY little thing that goes into the tank. I don't think I know a single person IRL who QT's coral and rock for the length of time they would a fish. For better or worse, most of us will FW dip LR for pests, do a quick dip on corals, and call it a day. I will say this...off the top of my head, I can't think of any post I've ever read where a person with an ich outbreak could definitively tie their infestation to the rock or coral.....these posts almost always follow poor fish QT or none at all. (Of course, you know I'm going to go do a web search for the ich-LR threads now!!
)
Once again, I offer my opinion of what *I* would do with a wild caught mandarin. Yes, I would QT. No, probably not for the full length of time, unless I could be sure I had weaned it while in quarantine. I would take the overall health and diet needs of the fish into account first, because what's the point of starving a fish to death while you're waiting to see if it may or may not have a disease that it's generally resistant to?
Heh.....now let's boil this down to one phrase. This whole argument is moot if we are good little boys and girls and only buy the ORA-certified tank-raised mandarins. It's what we should be doing anyway as responsible hobbyists, yes?** That way you could get a fish that you know is (1) predisposed to eating frozen fare, and (2) doesn't impact the natural resource.
** The argument I told myself today as I stood in front of a holding tank at my LFS, looking at a very large and very healthy male Mandarin for all of $15.00. Thankfully, I listened to the voices in my head this time. This time.....
 
S

siptang

Guest
Rick - looks like you hit all the points on the head.
As you said, I wouldn't spend $300 bucks to feed $15 fish. It's just impractical and it is as Greg and you said above as well. They are resistant not ich proof. I had it quarantined for 3 weeks, while training it to eat frozen brine, mysis and spectrum pellets. I did the fresh water dip then introduced it to my tank. It has nearly doubled it's size in less then 6 months.
Each to their own as long as their qt method works.
I would have jumped gun on that $15 mandarin lol.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siptang http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497675
I would have jumped gun on that $15 mandarin lol.
I thought about it, but I really do want to try for an ORA specimen instead. Mainly for the eco-friendly bragging rights, like having a Prius.

Seriously, even if I was sure I was going to get a wild-caught Mandarin....the big tank is only 11 WEEKS old, and barely 7 weeks since the cycle ended, so nowhere near ready for that fish. I'll revisit the idea of a Mandarin when I've hit the 4-month mark minimum.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
My mandarin is from ORA, and it was completely uninterested in frozen foods until I saw a you-tube video of a tank full of mandarins at ORA being fed with a pile of ova, so I tried that, and it worked. The fish has been in my tank for about 6 months now, and still only takes ova from the pile or pipette tip despite my efforts to offer it other things mixed in with the eggs. It is still worth it to have such an interesting fish in my tank.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497724
My mandarin is from ORA, and it was completely uninterested in frozen foods until I saw a you-tube video of a tank full of mandarins at ORA being fed with a pile of ova, so I tried that, and it worked. The fish has been in my tank for about 6 months now, and still only takes ova from the pile or pipette tip despite my efforts to offer it other things mixed in with the eggs. It is still worth it to have such an interesting fish in my tank.
Do you also see him eating live pods (i.e., picking off the rock)?
 
S

siptang

Guest
Mine is getting bit aggresive at feeding ime now and I love it!
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497752
Do you also see him eating live pods (i.e., picking off the rock)?
Hard to say since he spends much time in and behind the rockwork. I have a 20 gallon sump with chaeto in it, and have put two bottles of pods into it since I got the mandarin, but cannot tell if they are making it to the dt, or whether the mandarin is eating them. He is growing, and eats his ova happily, so I'm just going to keep trying to interest him in other foods. Today I added diced PE mysis to the ova mix. We'll see what happens. I will also be adding an algae turf scrubber to the sump in a few weeks. They are supposed to be great for producing pods.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Yes, I understand the life cycle. It is completely possible for a coral or rock to have a C. irritans cyst on it. In a perfect world, we would QT every single thing that goes into the tank. There's a saying that "if it's wet, QT it...." that is very appropriate. Truth of the matter is, however, very few people QT EVERY little thing that goes into the tank. I don't think I know a single person IRL who QT's coral and rock for the length of time they would a fish. For better or worse, most of us will FW dip LR for pests, do a quick dip on corals, and call it a day. I will say this...off the top of my head, I can't think of any post I've ever read where a person with an ich outbreak could definitively tie their infestation to the rock or coral.....these posts almost always follow poor fish QT or none at all. (Of course, you know I'm going to go do a web search for the ich-LR threads now!!
)
Sorry to say novahobbies you have found a person. I bought a large quanity of LR from a LFS right from his tanks. I had 9 fish in the tank, yes a little backwards I know, I didn't have enough money to buy all the rock I need all at once. I placed directly into my DT, in days all the fish had ick, lost all but 1.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Heh.....now let's boil this down to one phrase. This whole argument is moot if we are good little boys and girls and only buy the ORA-certified tank-raised mandarins. It's what we should be doing anyway as responsible hobbyists, yes?** That way you could get a fish that you know is (1) predisposed to eating frozen fare, and (2) doesn't impact the natural resource.
Best point of all novahobbies.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497793
Hard to say since he spends much time in and behind the rockwork. I have a 20 gallon sump with chaeto in it, and have put two bottles of pods into it since I got the mandarin, but cannot tell if they are making it to the dt, or whether the mandarin is eating them. He is growing, and eats his ova happily, so I'm just going to keep trying to interest him in other foods. Today I added diced PE mysis to the ova mix. We'll see what happens. I will also be adding an algae turf scrubber to the sump in a few weeks. They are supposed to be great for producing pods.
If you seeded your fuge and chaeto ball with pods, chances are you do have pods making it through into the DT. Studies and anecdotal evidence has shown that most copepods survive the trip through the impeller without any ill effects (read: dying, being sliced to smithereens, etc). Amphipods are not so lucky, depending on the size they may survive, but just as likely to get diced.
I have had 2 Mandarins for years (the old male recently passed, the female is still alive) who both weaned to PE mysis of all things. The male would actively chase down the mysis as much as any more active fish, and when I moved him into the seahorse tank he would join the horses at the feeding dish and nose right in. I still have pics of this in my seahorse thread.
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497806
Sorry to say novahobbies you have found a person. I bought a large quanity of LR from a LFS right from his tanks. I had 9 fish in the tank, yes a little backwards I know, I didn't have enough money to buy all the rock I need all at once. I placed directly into my DT, in days all the fish had ick, lost all but 1.
First, let me say I'm really, really sorry to hear this. Tank crashes for any reason are heartbreaking. To put it eloquently......it sucks, man. Sorry to hear it.
Would I sound like a complete jerk if I asked a couple questions? First, I don't disbelieve you....and since I haven't gotten around to doing that internet search, I can't say how common or rare this kind of thing is. However.....

  • Did you QT all 9 fish for a full 4-6 weeks before adding them to the system?

  • How long were the fish in the DT before you added this batch of rock?
    Is it possible that the parasite was already in the system in low levels? Ich can exist in our tank in very small amounts, and we might not notice it if the fish are relatively healthy and able to fight it off. A single white spot or two from time to time could have gone unnoticed. Adding a large amount of new rock would be just the sort of stress catalyst that might set off a full blown attack...especially if there was even the slightest bit of an ammonia spike.
Please don't misunderstand....I'm not rejecting your conclusion at all. Occam's razor would hint that you're probably right. I'm just playing devil's advocate, and asking if you can prove beyond a doubt that it was the rock.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahobbies http:///t/393200/qt-dragonet-fish/20#post_3497812
First, let me say I'm really, really sorry to hear this. Tank crashes for any reason are heartbreaking. To put it eloquently......it sucks, man. Sorry to hear it.
Would I sound like a complete jerk if I asked a couple questions? First, I don't disbelieve you....and since I haven't gotten around to doing that internet search, I can't say how common or rare this kind of thing is. However.....

  • Did you QT all 9 fish for a full 4-6 weeks before adding them to the system? fish were in DT tank for a year, all were QT B4 put into DT

  • How long were the fish in the DT before you added this batch of rock? 6 weeks or full treatment of Hypo.
    Is it possible that the parasite was already in the system in low levels? There is no such thing, lol Ich can exist in our tank in very small amounts, I will disagree. Only for short time, since they multiple so quickly from one ick you will get houndreds. and we might not notice it if the fish are relatively healthy and able to fight it off. A single white spot or two from time to time could have gone unnoticed. Adding a large amount of new rock would be just the sort of stress catalyst that might set off a full blown attack...especially if there was even the slightest bit of an ammonia spike.
Please don't misunderstand....I'm not rejecting your conclusion at all. Occam's razor would hint that you're probably right. I'm just playing devil's advocate, and asking if you can prove beyond a doubt that it was the rock.
Ick I found out after much research will attach to any surface when it is in its protomonts stage. Also in two stages in ick's life cycle they are free swimming and can be transfered from one tank to another from the bag of water you bring home the critter in. That being said, I now QT everthing wet.
 
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