QT for aggressive fish

[hookedtofowlr]

As I work on finalizing my stock list I am looking into a QT tank. What size do you recommend for triggers, puffers, angels, etc. Once you set up a QT do you leave it running all the time or do you just set it up when you need it? Thanks!

 

[aquaknight]

Obviously the bigger the better as far as QT size. If you plan on QT'ing show size fish, you'll need something just as big. But in general, I recommend a 55gal. There's a lot of them out there, usually for cheap, and they're a 4 foot tank, so the fish won't go crazy, yet it's small enough that reasonably small water changes (10 gallons or so) still make a difference to the tank.
If you want to keep it running all the time, and you have a place for it, that would be the best option, then having to break down the tank, and having to set it back up everytime you get a new fish. You can either ghost feed the tank when no one's in there, or keep a chromis or two (what I do) in the tank at all times. They aren't aggressive to newcomers, and are a great dither fish, that helps show the 'news guys' the ropes of tank life. My chromis will eat nori from a clip, and that helped my Naso take to it in no time.
Also, I go against the norm a bit, and QT two or three fish at a time, sometimes. The size of a 55gal allows me to do that. If I only had a 20gal, I'd have to do one fish at a time.

 

[jesses89]

How long do you leave fish in QT for?
While a fish is in QT, is the salinity level the same as the display tank? Or is it kept in lower levels? (Hypo)
How often should one do water changes in a QT?

 

[aquaknight]

Sorry Jesse, but are you asking for general advise for yourself/anyone, or are you trying to see what hookedtofowlr's plans are?

 

[rcreations]

I like to buy fish small and raise them myself, usually buy them under 4". My QT is 45gal and that seems plenty big. I even had tangs in it and they seemed ok for 4 weeks. But like AquaNight said... bigger is definitely better.

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Aqua, having a couple chromis sounds better than just having an empty tank. However do they have any effect on doing treatment to a sick fish in the qt? Do you have it setup with substrate/live rock/skimmer and everything or is a qt more of a minimal setup? I know there is a lot of questions but I just want to make sure I do this right. Thanks for all the help.

 

[aquaknight]

Quarantine is suppose to be very minimal. The traditional filtration is either sponge filters (like these) or bio-wheel filters. I use 2 Penguin 330's with dual bio wheels on each. You typically don't need a skimmer, as when the fish are in treatment, a skimmer is never used as you have to turn it off with a copper treatment, and it won't work with the lower salinity in hypo.
You can keep live rock in there. I do, as I find that Cupramine isn't absorbed by the live rock, but this is still slightly risk as it's reported the rock can, and then leach the copper back into the tank raising the levels to unsafe. I wouldn't use any other copper treatment though besides Cupramine. It's really the best stuff out there IMHO. The live rock probably is going to be never safe to use again on a reef though. However if you decide on a hypo treatment, this will pretty much kill the live rock and you'll have to seriously bump up your water change schedule, which will be the main source of keeping the water in good quality. I do about 10gallons weekly when the tank's normal, and 10gals every 3 days when in hypo or copper. Substrate is not needed unless you're keeping fish that bury themselves like leopard, coris, or christmas wrasses.
As far as treatment with other fish, I find the chromis to do great. Mine have been through 2 hypo treatments and 1 copper. They usually eat well too, as I try to fatten the new fish in QT before they go into the display. I also only treat my fish if they show problems. Having the chromis mixed in with the fish is a bit of extra insurance, as the chromis should also get the sickness if the fish was never treated, but did have some diseases.
No problem asking questions. That's what we're here for

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Wow thanks for the great info! Here is another question do you ever run into an issue of after having qted a fish for a few weeks until he is healthy when you move him into the dt he becomes stressed again and the condition resurfaces? Thanks

 

[prime311]

Originally Posted by HookedtoFowlr
http:///forum/post/2796486
Wow thanks for the great info! Here is another question do you ever run into an issue of after having qted a fish for a few weeks until he is healthy when you move him into the dt he becomes stressed again and the condition resurfaces? Thanks
That is certainly a possibility and its also sign of something wrong in your main tank. Either a problem with aggression or water quality.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by HookedtoFowlr
http:///forum/post/2796486
Wow thanks for the great info! Here is another question do you ever run into an issue of after having qted a fish for a few weeks until he is healthy when you move him into the dt he becomes stressed again and the condition resurfaces? Thanks
Twice, sort of. a Harlequin Tusk and a Potter's Angel. I suspect the Tusk was collected with cyanide. He did great in QT, through a copper treatment treating Ich, then added to the display only for about a week before lympho started to heavily form on his fins, and I wanted to make sure it wasn't Ich, so I moved him back to QT. He continued to get worse and worse, heavy fin loss and some nasty bacterial infections, before I made the decision to euthanize. For this reason, and I forgot to mention it in your other thread, I do not recommend buying an Indo Harlequin Tusk. If they are cheap, then they've come from the shadiest wholesaler/collector possible, and if not, they still expensive, and IMO, not worth the risk, when an Austrailian Harlequin Tusk is just a bit more $$ for a fish guranateed not to be caught by cyanide.
The Potter's Angel did well in QT, I was able to get him to take prepared foods, and had gotten nice and fat. I added him to the display, and he never seemed to adjust. He stopped taking prepared foods and started to just look dazed all the time. He died about 2 weeks after being added to the display.
And but if you don't treat, there's certainly a risk like prime mentioned.

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Okay so what about the actual moving of the fish from the dt to the qt and back again? Is the primary reason for a QT to protect a diseased fish from being picked on by his tankmates or is it to effectively treat them. I guess I am wondering if you just had fish and liverock in your DT would there be harmful effects to treating inside your DT? I am not trying to be lazy and skate by having a QT I just want to make sure I fully understand everything behind them. Thanks again!

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Okay I am running into a small problem with finding a place for a 55g in my house (I have 2 little girls into everything they can reach and we don't really have a place for another stand. Here is my question if I bought all of my fish as juvis and qted them all in a 10g which I could fit in my stand under my dt, would that work? As they get bigger would I still be able to use that or would the stress of going to a much smaller place be too much for a sick fish? Thanks

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Any suggestions? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[rcreations]

Not sure I would use a 10gal as a QT. Seems small but I guess if you bought your fish very small and only QT one at a time, it can work. But then you can run into problems later on. What happens if your fish get sick and you need to transfer them to the QT? The 10gal would not be big enough for more than 1 or 2 fish.

 

[hookedtofowlr]

That is what concerns me. But I cannot fit a 55 anywhere in the house. If I redo my plumbing under the stand depending on the dimensions I might be able to fit a 20g. Would that make a difference?

 

[rcreations]

I was looking over your stock list. Triggers, puffers and angels won't be able to go in a 20g. Back when I moved my fish from the 65 to 150, I had to put some in a 30gal overnight. Man, there was some serious agession between the humu and niger. I woke up in the morning and the niger was all ripped up. These big size fish just don't do well in small tanks. Can you find a place for a 65gal? It has a smaller footprint than a 55.

 

[hookedtofowlr]

Do you know offhand what the dim are? Would a uv sterilizer help keep diseases at bay in the dt? Thanks for the replies

 

[rcreations]

Not sure of the exact dimensions but it's 3' long instead of 4'. It's just taller instead of longer.

 

[aquaknight]

Going back over things...
The purpose of a QT, is to prevent any diseases from entering your display. Some people treat their fish regardless if it's actually sick or not, but I only treat if I see other sick fish at the store (or an unknown online purchase) or if the fish does become sick. If fine, they spend 4 weeks in QT, then into the display. If they become sick, it's 3 weeks of treatment, then 2 weeks of observation, then either extend QT if I don't feel comfortable with the fish, or into the display.
IMO, UV is useless against treating diseases. The main, and really only, purpose of a UV is to help kill nuisance algae (technology copied from pond keepers). It's also really expensive for an adequate sized UV for any tank over 100gal.
Going over your stocklist, fish that would work in a 20QT (and or also commonly available small), a small dogface, a small yellow tang, a small picasso trigger, and a small juvi Emperor angel, all would work in a 20, if kept by themselves, one at a time. A Harlequin Tusk though, usually are never available under 4", and 3" specimens are pretty rare. The Tusk is also the one fish, I would most strongly recommend QT'ing. One option here, would be to find a local Tusk for sale, that the previous owner has had for a long time (over a year) and hasn't added anything to the tank is some time. Still a risk though. Also, if you only purchase small other fish, as time goes on, and the girls mature, you could setup a larger QT then, and add the Tusk last. The smaller already established fish, probably would be fine with a larger Tusk.
A standard 65gal is half a 125gal, 36"x18"x22"