Qt/Ht How Many Do It How Many Dont

[swfishfan]

not to demeen you journeyman, but i have done the disease forum, i was not one of those people that just jumps in with out researching, i read and got advice and as i started my tanks, i dont like to waste money, its my pet pea, and to date i can honestly say i have not once lost a fish, call it luck or call it an attentive aquarist(i think luck) but something i have been doing has been right, now like i said i dont want to start major arguements or long drawn out discussions like what happened with the treating your tank with chemicals thread, but i want info. belive it or not, i am taking notes of all members, info.. a qt will take money (even though its a small amoutn of maney) from my dt and time, which i feel is more valuable, having to watch another tank cycle is not something i would want to stress out abotu right now, if i did not have too

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
First off, starting to QT may not matter. You may already have introduced parasites, diseases, etc. into your tank. That's why it is crucial to do from the beginning.
The ocean is not nearly as closed of a system as your tank. A fish with ich in the ocean is not going to be around every fish in the ocean. A sick fish in your tank WILL encounter all of your other livestock. Not a good comparision.
It's not a matter of dealing with sick fish. Have you ever tried to catch a fish in a reef tank???? After you dismantle 200Lbs of live rock you'll understand the insanity of it all.
The better question to ask is; Why NOT qt? Again I say browse through the disease forum. Do you really want to roll the dice and deal with that?
i may have introduced some sort of disease into my tank but for a whole year my inhabitants have not been affected at all, i am once again going to put out i am not putting this post out to demeen anybody, i am not saying "hahahaha all those dumb asses ae qting and i have never done it an dmy fish are fine", and i most definately am not saying that i am a better aquarist than anyone else because my fish are ok and i dont qt. i agree i have been very lucky and fortunate that i have not had an outbreak but like jmick i feel that right now with fish only in my tank if one fish was to get ick, then they are well taken care of to fight it off, will it come back it might? will it stick around maybe, but so far i have been lucky to not incounter this....
now about my ocean remark, ther reason i used that as an example for anybody that has dove in there life at any type of reef will see many fish stick to one area of the reef, thats why we call our tanks a community because fish stay in one small area they feel comfortabel they dont roam the whole ocean... hence if one fish gets sick then the others get sick...
i have never had to catch a fish in 200lbs of lr but there is wild caught fish so its not impossibel if you knwo what your doing.
and thats exactly the question i am asking, why not qt? but i have a rebutle question which is why qt? i need more info than scare stories posted int eh disease forum.... because then we go to the " dont fly in a plane, because there might be terrorists theory"
now i dont knwo how i am coming off but i hope no one is getting offended im just rebutleing for the other side so that i can get the correct, majority info, if it was all one sided no one would learn anything

 

[al mc]

SW Fishfan..As I see it you want the pros and cons of QT.
Pros: Attempt to decrease or eliminate introduction of disease into
your DT. Cost savings: Unpredictable, but if you have a major
disease outbreak..very costly in time and money to treat and
replace losses
Cons: Cost to set up and cycle a QT tank in time and money

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Can you observe internal parasites? Can you be sure the fish doesn't have the initial disease hosting on it and hasn't shown signs yet?
The vast majority (if not all) of LFS tanks are plumbed together. Observing one fish in one tank doesn't paint the accurate picture.
can you guarantee that after 1 month of having your fish in a qt tank he aint caring a parasite inside him? think about it?
now i know what your sating about the tanks being plumbed together, but then the lfs would have a lot of dead fish at hand and no money, if the tanks were not well taken care off the lfs would just have a bucnh of returned dead fish, if you go to a respected lfs then you know what i mean, the one i go to here in california is run by a local marine biologist who actually does the store thing for fun not work, he is an entertainer for sea world san diego, he actually dives with shamu and the dolphins at times..... so all i have to say is, maybe as aquarist we have to take the time to research our resources a little better, like i have no problem acclimating a fish from this site and adding it to my tank, is that a risk? maybe to some people but there a trusted site, now if i do trust and it fails then they lose a customer, same with my lfs, never had a problem for the past 4 years... so all i am saying is invest more time researching your stores, if you find a good one stick with it and use them to your advancement in this hobby....

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
SW Fishfan..As I see it you want the pros and cons of QT.
Pros: Attempt to decrease or eliminate introduction of disease into
your DT. Cost savings: Unpredictable, but if you have a major
disease outbreak..very costly in time and money to treat and
replace losses
Cons: Cost to set up and cycle a QT tank in time and money
now is this a biast pros or cons?? do you have a qt?
if so what about some more cons like, you cant really ever tell if a fish is healthy or not? what if he sits in your qt for a month, goes into your tank and he still end sup with some sort of disease? then what blame it on yur tank?
so far i have read this, its so that your fish dont get your display tank sick of whatever the fish is housing? thats the main reason to qt? so why are we buying defective products? if i went to a pet store bought a dog or cat and it had a disease i could return the pet right back, or if the pet store is proffesional enough, they would catch it themselfs, like my lfs, they wont sell you sick fish, its just there professionalism... so we as aquarist have to stop taking faulty products, i know there fish but we purchase them, why do we have to do all the work to make sure there safe for our dt, should they not come already ready to drop in? we pay hundreds for fish to come with disease? thats not justified by any means

 

[swfishfan]

so updating the results if no one has checked, after about 8 hours of having the poll up, i have gotten a sense that its almost an even match of who qt's and who does not... after 34 votes we have 20 who do and 14 who dont, now that dont seem like that even but when you think about how many members there is on this site if this stays the same then out of all the members of this site many dont qt, now i want to call all those who dont qt and explain why they dont? give detail, i have gotten lots of rants and raves of why people do and i appreciate it, some of those postee's might think i am being dumb or argguative but i am not, if i let the qt'ers over take then newbies might never get a sense of why they should, i ahev been a postee on this site for two years now, and i haev not been one to sit and argue o r post debateable threads but i felt not to many people talk about why they qt or why they dont its either they do ro they dont, i am on here alot and i see a lot of newbies just go with the crowd either to do it or not, so i felt that we needed a post to put both sides of why or why not, but if its just me and jmick there is never going to be much info. to put out, like qt'ers they put out alot of why they do what they do so this is just to call all other persons who dont out? i dont qt but i am looking to qt,because corals are a little more fragile and need more care and i want to start keeoing them( not out of the blue, i have been researching for about a year now, 6 months straight on my last deploymet) so any info. will help even if its just a " because i dont feel like wasting my time in qt'ing, i want fish in my tank now"

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by SWFISHFAN
so updating the results if no one has checked, after about 8 hours of having the poll up, i have gotten a sense that its almost an even match of who qt's and who does not... after 34 votes we have 20 who do and 14 who dont, now that dont seem like that even but when you think about how many members there is on this site if this stays the same then out of all the members of this site many dont qt, now i want to call all those who dont qt and explain why they dont? give detail, i have gotten lots of rants and raves of why people do and i appreciate it, some of those postee's might think i am being dumb or argguative but i am not, if i let the qt'ers over take then newbies might never get a sense of why they should, i ahev been a postee on this site for two years now, and i haev not been one to sit and argue o r post debateable threads but i felt not to many people talk about why they qt or why they dont its either they do ro they dont, i am on here alot and i see a lot of newbies just go with the crowd either to do it or not, so i felt that we needed a post to put both sides of why or why not, but if its just me and jmick there is never going to be much info. to put out, like qt'ers they put out alot of why they do what they do so this is just to call all other persons who dont out? i dont qt but i am looking to qt,because corals are a little more fragile and need more care and i want to start keeoing them( not out of the blue, i have been researching for about a year now, 6 months straight on my last deploymet) so any info. will help even if its just a " because i dont feel like wasting my time in qt'ing, i want fish in my tank now"

My guess is that, proportionately, there are probably a lot more people who don't QT but aren't voting or posting. As you may or may not have noticed, sometimes people who don't QT are chastised, criticised and even demeaned.
I'll tell you why I don't QT if you want another opinion. It's pretty simple. I have kept sw fish for over 20 years. I believe that if you stock moderately and know how to choose a healthy fish, you significantly reduce the chances of getting a sick fish. I also think that if you keep a stable tank and don't make drastic changes or push the limit, then things will remain pretty stable. All that being said, there is still the practical considerations. I have a relatively large tank with large fish. To QT, I'd have to have a minimum of a 100 gallon tank and space to keep it. (1) I don't really have the extra space, (2) If I had the room, there are a lot of other things I'd rather do with an extra 100 gallon tank, and (3) This is obviously an expensive hobby but for me, with 2 kids, this is not a necessary expense. My fish rarely die. I've only had one death in over 3 years. Granted, I have had 2 cases of ich but I was able to effectively treat them both times. There's nothing wrong with QT at all... it's a very safe way to do things. But there is another way.

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by crimzy
My guess is that, proportionately, there are probably a lot more people who don't QT but aren't voting or posting. As you may or may not have noticed, sometimes people who don't QT are chastised, criticised and even demeaned.
I'll tell you why I don't QT if you want another opinion. It's pretty simple. I have kept sw fish for over 20 years. I believe that if you stock moderately and know how to choose a healthy fish, you significantly reduce the chances of getting a sick fish. I also think that if you keep a stable tank and don't make drastic changes or push the limit, then things will remain pretty stable. All that being said, there is still the practical considerations. I have a relatively large tank with large fish. To QT, I'd have to have a minimum of a 100 gallon tank and space to keep it. (1) I don't really have the extra space, (2) If I had the room, there are a lot of other things I'd rather do with an extra 100 gallon tank, and (3) This is obviously an expensive hobby but for me, with 2 kids, this is not a necessary expense. My fish rarely die. I've only had one death in over 3 years. Granted, I have had 2 cases of ich but I was able to effectively treat them both times. There's nothing wrong with QT at all... it's a very safe way to do things. But there is another way.
so since i am playing the devils advocate here, im gonna question you too, since i know people get thrown to the wolves if they dont go with whats the "proper" thing to do in this hobby, but i am thankful you put your opinions out there, but since i am double sideing, in 20years would you have not saved more money by qt' ing that by having your fish die, all the money wasted in the fish dieing would you have not been able to have wasted it on a qt tank and maybe other live stock for your tank?

 

[al mc]

My first posting on this thread indicated that I QT/Hypo all new fish (except mandarins). I believe it prevents the spread of 'possible' disease and when done correctly is safe for the fish.
New corals are dipped, then QT's for 3 weeks.
While I do not have the experience of some of the posters here it is what I believe in and it has worked for me.

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
My first posting on this thread indicated that I QT/Hypo all new fish (except mandarins). I believe it prevents the spread of 'possible' disease and when done correctly is safe for the fish.
New corals are dipped, then QT's for 3 weeks.
While I do not have the experience of some of the posters here it is what I believe in and it has worked for me.
i have a question? why not mandarin fish?

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by SWFISHFAN
so since i am playing the devils advocate here, im gonna question you too, since i know people get thrown to the wolves if they dont go with whats the "proper" thing to do in this hobby, but i am thankful you put your opinions out there, but since i am double sideing, in 20years would you have not saved more money by qt' ing that by having your fish die, all the money wasted in the fish dieing would you have not been able to have wasted it on a qt tank and maybe other live stock for your tank?

Hard to say. I really don't think so. In my experience, most of the deaths of my fish were due to human error, not defective fish. Like I said earlier, I think that if you choose correctly, the chances of getting a sick fish are very small. Most of the deaths of my fish came from being impatient, keeping fish in inappropriate tanks or with inappropriate tankmates, natural aggression, jumping out of the water, tank breaking, losing power, etc. If I had tanks wiped out by disease when I did everything else right then I probably would feel differently. But the amounts of these deaths for me has been minimal. A lot can go wrong and a lot of bad decisions can be made, even if someone has a QT. Personally, I think buying any fish online, without inspecting it prior, is much riskier than keeping a tank without a QT. But this is JMO.

 

[al mc]

Mandarins usually only eat live copepods. these inverts will not survive in hyposalinity. Most mandarins do not accept frozen foods, flakes or pellets.
So generally, if you like these fish, hypo is not an option.

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Hard to say. I really don't think so. In my experience, most of the deaths of my fish were due to human error, not defective fish. Like I said earlier, I think that if you choose correctly, the chances of getting a sick fish are very small. Most of the deaths of my fish came from being impatient, keeping fish in inappropriate tanks or with inappropriate tankmates, natural aggression, jumping out of the water, tank breaking, losing power, etc. If I had tanks wiped out by disease when I did everything else right then I probably would feel differently. But the amounts of these deaths for me has been minimal. A lot can go wrong and a lot of bad decisions can be made, even if someone has a QT. Personally, I think buying any fish online, without inspecting it prior, is much riskier than keeping a tank without a QT. But this is JMO.

i can see your point, on this matter and i see why you dont qt for your own reason because like myself you have not had a disease out break and you have been doing it for 20 years, so i think your opinion is fair, and the part about online shopping can be a good assumption but i belive well restpected sites with minimal complaints cant be to bad in just adding then right in but liek you said thats jmo...

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
Mandarins usually only eat live copepods. these inverts will not survive in hyposalinity. Most mandarins do not accept frozen foods, flakes or pellets.
So generally, if you like these fish, hypo is not an option.
i have a mandarin and i was wondering if they were some sort of super fish or something but its all because of feeding purposes and it makes sense because my geen mandarin wont eat anything else but the copepods in my tank...

 

[al mc]

SWFishfan...Thanks for the interesting, polite and fair minded discussion.

Good luck on however you proceed. good night

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by SWFISHFAN
... the part about online shopping can be a good assumption but i belive well restpected sites with minimal complaints cant be to bad in just adding then right in but liek you said thats jmo...
I still think that buying, even the healthiest fish online is too risky. Any saltwater tank is a delicate balance, an ecosystem. Adding a new specimen is generally quite a shock to the tank. The problem with online shopping, even if the fish is healthy, is that there is really no way to select the most appropriate specimen. You may want a 5" foxface that will probably be ok with a 3" huma huma. But if you get a 3-4" foxface, there will be problems. A good selection is not only finding the fish you want but also finding the right fit for your tank. There will always be some variation in size, personality, prior tankmates that cannot be accounted for with online purchases. Again, JMO.

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
SWFishfan...Thanks for the interesting, polite and fair minded discussion.

Good luck on however you proceed. good night

your welcome al mc.. this is what i wanted a discussion where anybody could come on and not get torn apart for there belives and you have a good night as well, and ill post after all is done what i have decided

 

[swfishfan]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
SWFishfan...Thanks for the interesting, polite and fair minded discussion.

Good luck on however you proceed. good night

your welcome al mc.. this is what i wanted a discussion where anybody could come on and not get torn apart for there belives and you have a good night as well, and ill post after all is done what i have decided

 

[jpc763]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
My first posting on this thread indicated that I QT/Hypo all new fish (except mandarins). I believe it prevents the spread of 'possible' disease and when done correctly is safe for the fish.
New corals are dipped, then QT's for 3 weeks.
While I do not have the experience of some of the posters here it is what I believe in and it has worked for me.
So what kind of setup do you have for a Coral QT? Lighting, flow, etc?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by SWFISHFAN
not to demeen you journeyman, but i have done the disease forum, i was not one of those people that just jumps in with out researching, i read and got advice and as i started my tanks, i dont like to waste money, its my pet pea, and to date i can honestly say i have not once lost a fish, call it luck or call it an attentive aquarist(i think luck) but something i have been doing has been right, now like i said i dont want to start major arguements or long drawn out discussions like what happened with the treating your tank with chemicals thread, but i want info. belive it or not, i am taking notes of all members, info.. a qt will take money (even though its a small amoutn of maney) from my dt and time, which i feel is more valuable, having to watch another tank cycle is not something i would want to stress out abotu right now, if i did not have too

Not offended at all.
My point is, sooner or later you will introduce something you don't want. The question is, are you willing to go through what all of those folks are going through?