QT question

bs

bs

Member
So I have ich in my tank, and I'm thinking of taking all of the fish out and treating them and letting the ich die off in the display. My only problem is that I have a 6" powder brown tang....and my largest spare tank is a 20 gallon. I know that I will be needing to keep the fish out of the display tank for a minimum 4 weeks. If the tang was in the 20 gallon alone would he be ok? Or will be get too stressed?
Thanks!
 
mproctor4

mproctor4

Member
I had a sailfin that was smaller than your powder brown in a 20gal long QT that did not do very well. He survived but was definately stressed. I would not recommend it. Depending on how you decide to treat your fish, they may need to be in the QT longer than 4 weeks. For hypo you need to take them down over a couple of days (I took a week for the fish that didn't have symptoms), 4-6 weeks in hypo and then a week to bring the salinity back up. Personally, I would leave my DT empty for at least 6 weeks no matter how you treat your fish. Why go thru all of that and take a chance that it isn't gone? Good Luck!
 
bs

bs

Member
Ya i have decided against taht. waht im actually going to do now is turn my display in to the quarantine. im taking out all the rock and coral and putting them else where and im going to put the tank to hypo.
sound good?
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
I don't think I'd hypo any DT. If it's been running for any ammount of time, there's an awful lot of tiny shrimps/pods/worms etc. that are very beneficial to a healthy system, and I dont think hypo would do any of them any good, and could kill off alot of them...I've qtined 6" tangs in 20&30 gal tanks before. It's not the best solution, but the purpose of qtine is to save the fishes life, and it's only temporary. I'd provide a few large size dark coffee cups or dark 4" dia PVC for him, and he should be just fine. Only thing I've found is larger fish produce more waste, requiring more waterchanges in a small tank.
Besides, if while in Qtine you have to use somt type of med like copper or melafix, you certainly can in a seperate bare qtine tank, while you cannot in your DT - espicallly if it's a reef, or will ever be a reef tank.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Any size tank otherthan a 6' long tank will be stressfull, heck the ick is stessfull. I would use the seperate tank i did hipo in my DT moved out all my LR and sand what a pain and DT was never the same, it took 2 years before DT was normal again. Provide hiding place and keep your fingers crossed. +1 on the 6-8 weeks on DT fishless, I also add one extra week on hypo dosn't hurt and better safe than doing all over after you have put him back in the DT. Been there two.
Good Luck
 
bs

bs

Member
Alright I'm thinking I'll try removing all of the fish then. My friend is lending me a 29 gallon, so I'll put the tang in that, and I'll divide the other fish between my 15 and 20 gallon.
 
mr. limpid

mr. limpid

Active Member
Sounds great, one word of advise you'll prob. have amonia since it is a new set up. Do water changes alot and have a bottle of Amquel works great.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Copper treatment will fail in an uncycled QT. Water quality will be difficult to maintain in an uncycled tank, but impossible to maintain while using medications.
You can set up rectangular shaped QTs using Rubbermaid type containers from Home Depot. They are relatively inexpensive, and work well in the pinch you are in with your tang. You can put your tang in a larger rubbermaid.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BS http:///forum/thread/385752/qt-question#post_3385356
What if I'm starting with cycled water from my display tank?
The water really doesn't have much nitrifying bacteria in it, but I use a piece of filter floss or filter element chunk from a/the cycled DT and put that into the little powerfilter that I use for the QT to help "quick cycle" it and provide some nitrogen cycle elements. Daily vacuuming of any uneaten food and poop helps ALOT too.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
It is not a viable option, even with cycled water. Copper will kill off whatever nitrifying bacteria there is in the water, leaving your tank with zero biological filter. Using aged water to set up a QT is a good idea, but it will not support anything once medications are introduced. Only a well established quarantine can withstand that, and then only with care closely watching water parameters.
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
+1..... I would use the water in your DT, or some of it to get your QT ready. When you decide to do this (ASAP) go ahead ad use 10-20% of DT for your QT and top off the QT with some fresh saltwater, then fill up the DT. (WOW alot of T's here huh?) The water in your display tank is already cycled and ready, so why not use it..... then critters in the QT. NEVER HYPO IN THE DISPLY PLEASE. You will have all sorts of new probelms JMO
 
kiefers

kiefers

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by BS http:///forum/thread/385752/qt-question#post_3385148
I'm not home all that much so should i do a copper treatment? Or do hypo?
with copper you may need to test 2 times a day with a good test kit. Hypo, safer if your not home, however you may want to keep check on water parameters, mostly ammonia and Ph. and of coarse, your salinity.
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangs rule http:///forum/thread/385752/qt-question#post_3385363
The water really doesn't have much nitrifying bacteria in it, but I use a piece of filter floss or filter element chunk from a/the cycled DT and put that into the little powerfilter that I use for the QT to help "quick cycle" it and provide some nitrogen cycle elements. Daily vacuuming of any uneaten food and poop helps ALOT too.
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread. But I have a question on QT's. Like Tang Rules says, he takes some filter floss or other stuff from the DT to help quick cycle the QT. The QT does not have any rock or sand, and the water only holds a little of the beneficial bacteria. So how big of a bio-filter does a QT have?? If there is no rock or sand where does the good stuff stick to?
Or, do you just need to test a lot and do small water changes often? I know that you need to siphon out the fish waste. Will this help keep the ammonia from spiking? I have always thought somthing was different with QT's. It never made sense to me it is just a empty glass box with a power filter, heater, and some PVC, and maybe a coffee cup or two.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/385752/qt-question#post_3395980
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread. But I have a question on QT's. Like Tang Rules says, he takes some filter floss or other stuff from the DT to help quick cycle the QT. The QT does not have any rock or sand, and the water only holds a little of the beneficial bacteria. So how big of a bio-filter does a QT have?? If there is no rock or sand where does the good stuff stick to?
Or, do you just need to test a lot and do small water changes often? I know that you need to siphon out the fish waste. Will this help keep the ammonia from spiking? I have always thought somthing was different with QT's. It never made sense to me it is just a empty glass box with a power filter, heater, and some PVC, and maybe a coffee cup or two.
I use the little penguin power filters, like 125 size and put the floss in it. The stock filters for these units have carbon inside the plastic mesh - and I usually cut the plastic backside to remove the carbon.
I pretty much follow the BOLD statements you mentioned. Regular siphoning of waste&uneaten food helps keep water quality better, and small waterchanges every 2-4 days.
Also critical IME is every 10 days/2 weeks totally breakdown the qtine tank, 100% waterchange, replacing the water with new exact sg & meds (formalin or copper). During this brakdown I flush the tank/pvc&cups and filter body with HOT tap and possibly some vinegar, and scrub everything with a good dish brush. This helps remove any "cysted" parasites before they hatch. Having a bare bones tank also gives the parasites less places to hide while they cyst&multiply, and very few surfaces where they cannot be removed from the system by doing this - where rock or sand kinda does give them a good place to cyst&multiply. I'll usually replace the filter cartrige in the power filter, and reuse the floss from the original DT OR take a new piece from a KNOWN clear DT. I've run at least 2 DT's since 2002, and usually have at least 1 that is parasite free. If you only have one DT and use some filter floss from it in the beginning of qtine, then you cannot "go back and get more" until that DT is KNOWN to be clear, if in the case your DT itself suffered an ich breakout.
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Thanks Tangs Rule!!! I have researched QT's a few times before and I have never seen that addressed. So clean everything in the QT with HOT water and maybe vineger every 10 days to 2 weeks. That makes sense.
 
tangs rule

tangs rule

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///forum/thread/385752/qt-question#post_3396053
Thanks Tangs Rule!!! I have researched QT's a few times before and I have never seen that addressed. So clean everything in the QT with HOT water and maybe vineger every 10 days to 2 weeks. That makes sense.
That's what I do - it really seems to help reduce their numbers, and speeds up the time till the fish clear up - though it still takes a month+ to monitor and ensure the fish are clear. And since adding the 475g DT - I now move any fish that seem clear and have finished Qtine process into a different tank for a couple more weeks of final monitoring and evaluation prior to adding to the big DT. I don't EVER want to infect a huge tank like that and have to catch all the tangs/angles/butterfly/wrasses/etc, etc. You could do the same thing, just still use the same qtine tank after finishing qtine(after a good final stearlize) - just run it at normal sg with no meds and ensure the fish are clear for 2-3 more weeks. This also adds to the fallow time on your DT - with 4-5 weeks really being the minimum time it should be fishless, that added 2 weeks virtually ensures no parasites are left..This is just an extra step - as it can be hard to perform qtine treatments on a fish twice, back to back.
Another reason I found that a regular tank breakdown & stearlize the bottom glass helps, is I've qtined many hippo tangs for friends, and they typically sleep/hide laying on their side - kinda tucked under a cup or PVC piece. I used to notice that ich always seemed to be real hard to rid on the side of the fish that is down. This is because when the cysts hatch (which they can even with hypo/copper) the cysts are laying on the bottom of the tank, where the hippo may be laying, right on top of.
 
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