Quarantine Tank Help...Sick Tang in beginning stages

[kiefers]

Lol!!! I have to ask, Foxand hound are you referring to Disneys fox and hound or are you referring to you and seth? Lol!! Just asking
I know you know the difference and excuse me for sounding uhm...... rediculous, but your not feeding the fish the garlic are ya?
When making your seafood mix, you take a clove.......I sure hope I'm not insulting you, if you know I'll stop. If not I will continue.....

 

[foxandhound]

Fox and Hound are our doggitos!! Both rescues...Foxy the Spitz and Mandy the Beagle.

Oh not feeding chunks o' garlic...I marinade their seaweed and mysis in a tiny bit of pressed garlic. With a knife, I wipe the garlic off the seaweed, but it's less easy to do with the mysis. Am I doing it wrong??? Uh ohh...feel silly now.
I have Prime, is that the same as Amquel?

 

[kiefers]

OMG!!!! those are so freakin CUTE!
What I do is .....
1) 1 clove of garlic
2) take a butcher knife and give it a good pound (Whack) to peel off the paper
3) cut the clove in half, cut little slits in the meat of the garlic
4) put in with the food, stir before feeding.
Also a good idea would be Selcon. Add a couple of drops in with the food.
also, don't feel silly. It's a learning process and your doing great!

 

[foxandhound]

Oh Whew! We do the same thing except I use a garlic press. It makes tiny pieces of pressed garlic. Some the fish eat, some not. I mix with their food. I use Boyd Vitachem. I will try Selcon next time.
Can I still add Macros things (?)
Thanks so much...these dogs are my first dogs. The fish are my first. And look at my huge mistake with not QTing the Coral Beauty. She infected my tank.
The MICU (Marine ICU...lol...so clever!!!) has high ammonia again. 1am. WTH?! I did a 10-15% water change 5 hours ago and had zero ammonia thereafter. Aside from Amquel +, what can I do? Is the Amquel the trick? This is nuts.

 

[reeferchief]

Fox i have been following this thread and I am so happy your fish are doing better! This gives me hope incase this ever happens in the future.
I was wondering if it's not too much trouble could you do a short description of the steps taken? I know obviously you have to catch fish out of the DT and put in MICU.lol My questions arise from this point forward...
What did you use for the MICU water and how did you get it to low salinity?
What kind of medication did you use?
What do you keep the temp at?
What kind of attention is needed on a daily basis?
Sorry but I would like to gain knowledge of your success to use as a tool to be prepared in the future!
Also the way I garlic treat my food is taking a mix of frozen food, usually mysis and Dr. G medicated nutrition. I take a garlic clove and smash it then I add a tablespoon of RO water w/ smashed garlic, to a small blender or grinder and I mix it really well. After I strain out the garlic juices from the grinder, into the mix of frozen foods and then I mix it all together with a fork. once mixed well, I add to a ziploc bag and lay flat in the freezer to form a food sheet.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
The MICU (Marine ICU...lol...so clever!!!) has high ammonia again. 1am. WTH?! I did a 10-15% water change 5 hours ago and had zero ammonia thereafter. Aside from Amquel +, what can I do? Is the Amquel the trick? This is nuts.
Yes Amquel is the trick it will lower your ammonia to safe levels not completely. Amquel + a different product (same manufacture) will also helps with PH. Yes it is nuts but think of the filtration you have for your DT and now you have the same load in this smaller tank it can not keep up with the load. So once you have kicked the ick (i like that saying) your QT will be ready to handle one new fish without much help with amquel or water changes. Just make sure you ghost feed the QT will it is empty to keep bacteria feed with ammonia.

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/40#post_3435478
Yes Amquel is the trick it will lower your ammonia to safe levels not completely. Amquel + a different product (same manufacture) will also helps with PH. Yes it is nuts but think of the filtration you have for your DT and now you have the same load in this smaller tank it can not keep up with the load. So once you have kicked the ick (i like that saying) your QT will be ready to handle one new fish without much help with amquel or water changes. Just make sure you ghost feed the QT will it is empty to keep bacteria feed with ammonia.
Amquel works by "locking" or binding the ammonia. This makes it safer for the fish, since it is pretty much detoxifying the ammonia. You will get a reading of ammonia (when you use the typical test kit) while using any product to control ammonia. I think if you get a test for free ammonia, you can a more accurate reading.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Amquel works by "locking" or binding the ammonia. This makes it safer for the fish, since it is pretty much detoxifying the ammonia. You will get a reading of ammonia (when you use the typical test kit) while using any product to control ammonia. I think if you get a test for free ammonia, you can a more accurate reading.
Yes I totally agree with your statement, I used this product when I first set up my QT because my ammonia was holding at .75 and doing 50% water changes every day wasn't doing it. By using Amquel my ammonia went down to .25, I think the key words you used was "makes it safer for the fish". I would still do water changes to remove the binded ammonia, but just not as often.

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/40#post_3435487
Amquel works by "locking" or binding the ammonia. This makes it safer for the fish, since it is pretty much detoxifying the ammonia. You will get a reading of ammonia (when you use the typical test kit) while using any product to control ammonia. I think if you get a test for free ammonia, you can a more accurate reading.
+1
Just out of curiosity, did you happen to cycle the QT? If not this is the initial cycle and ammonia will be high until cycled out. Like your DT, the tank has to go through the stages of cycle. I didn't find where it was posted that this was done.
Iam unsure of amquel, but prime helps with the slime coat of the fish. As for the maco, realistically, in the DT it would be great but it will not live in brackish water. You can put a lettuce leaf in there for the tang to munch on, he would greatly appreciate that.

 

[mr. limpid]

I would not use Ice-burg lettuce leaf, Roman is good that was blanched (organic type). I personal use Norri (from grocery store the kind they make sushi rolls from) or red Norri from LFS. There is guy who takes care of 20,000 gal tank at a restaurant that feed heads of broccoli (blanched), but these are full grown fish.

 

[travelerjp98]

Awww... those dogs are so cute!!!!

 

[kiefers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/40#post_3435560
I would not use Ice-burg lettuce leaf, Roman is good that was blanched (organic type). I personal use Norri (from grocery store the kind they make sushi rolls from) or red Norri from LFS. There is guy who takes care of 20,000 gal tank at a restaurant that feed heads of broccoli (blanched), but these are full grown fish.
+1. To true to that. I have heard of using the broc too and have tried it but the Tangs literally were rather freaked out by it.

 

[foxandhound]

Sorry, double post. Maybe MOD can delete?

 

[foxandhound]

Great News, Thanks to all of you we have had no casualties and our Tang looks 100% better and is dashing through the water. She doesnt have a single spot on her and neither does anyone else! Having a 4 foot long MICU tank was the best we could do for these guys and we're glad we did!
AmQuel is fantastic. Used it with Prime after a 15% water change and everything is now zero! I really only test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and salinity daily. Hope this is ok. Maybe I can soon move to testing once every few days? I think I will invest in the seachem ammonia alert sticker for my tank. Is it reliable?
When do you guys think our water changes will be more spread out? This is killing my wallet, but the fish are happy. Oh, I wanted to tell you that I just kept moving the pipes around and everyone has a place to sleep now.
The damsel is starting antibiotics tomorrow since his popeye has unfortuntely worsened, but he eats everything and has his own PVC to hide in. He is in a separate and smaller 3 gallon hospital tank. He gets 100% water changes daily. I was hoping to dose him with 60mg of Penicillin daily for 5 days??? I have read that doseage recommendations are once every 2 days, but I am doing severe water changes. What do you guys think?
Is Nori from the grocery store the same as what is being sold at the LFS...like Ocean Nutrition Seaweed, etc.?
What is this main ingredient in Selcon...Omega-3 HUFA? Seems unique to Selcon? Aksing because Selcon seems lacking in amino acids and vitamins when I compare it to Boyd's.
Selcon: Omega-3 HUFA, Vitamin B12 and pure stabilized Vitamin C.
Boyd's:




Vita-Chem Marine







Moisture



90.1% max







Crude Protein



21.8% min







Crude Fat



0.09% min







Crude Fiber



2.0%







Vitamin A



5000 IU







Vitamin B12



40 mg







Vitamin E



32 mg







Thiamine hydrochloride



25 mg



son11">Vitamin K


20 mg







Vitamin C



18 mg





Vitamin B1



12 mg







Vitamin B2



15 mg







Vitamin B6



12 mg







Biotin



4.0 mg







L-Leucine



4.0 mg







Lysine Monohydrochloride



3.0 mg







dl- Phenylalanine



3.0 mg







L-Arginine hydrochloride



2.5 mg







dl-Isoleucine



2.0 mg







Threonine



2.0 mg







L-Methionine



1.0 mg







dl-Tryptophan



1.0 mg







L-Cystine
hydrochloride
monohydrate



1.0 mg







L-Histidine
hydrochloride
monohydrate



1.0 mg



Traveler, thanks so much! Yours is a cutie too. What breed?
BTW- my display tank has persistant high nitrates. We did a 10% water change and STILL have high nitrates. Is it time to get a skimmer? Should we have someone come to clean our sump, sponges, etc. Keep in mind, that stuff is foreign to us since we have had the tank set up for a month or so. So sorry in advance if this sounds silly again.
Reeferchief, Thanks so much, but it's mostly the help from all you guys here. My Damsel isnt in the clear yet, looks like he is dealing with a secondary bacterial infection, further complicated from the Ich (he doesnt have visible spots, but I assume this is his way of showing he's been affected). Also, this is a constant battle with ammonia, so we're not in the clear yet! I hope I can tell you everyone survives by December!!!!
What did you use for the MICU water and how did you get it to low salinity? I started with 100% new saltwater from LFS. I lowered the salinity using Publix RO water (your my neighbor!) which I mix with Baking Soda to match pH. I store in the garage to get as close to temp as possible...garage is warm.
What kind of medication did you use? None!! Just hyposalinity. I use Prime and now AmQuel for slime coat and ammonia levels at each water change.
What do you keep the temp at? About 80, my heater seems to have a mind of it's own. I set it for 77 and it sometimes gets to 82. It's bizarre. I am watching it like a hawk.
What kind of attention is needed on a daily basis? Check Salinity, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate every day for first week...I even do it twice a day. I also feed daily. I clean poops daily with a poop net. I am doing water changes every 2-3 days. It's a major PITA. I will let you know when it calms down and ammonia stays down!!! lol.

 

[travelerjp98]

Mine is a Cockapoo! Thanks!

 

[mr. limpid]

The damsel is starting antibiotics tomorrow since his popeye has unfortuntely worsened, but he eats everything and has his own PVC to hide in. He is in a separate and smaller 3 gallon hospital tank. He gets 100% water changes daily. I was hoping to dose him with 60mg of Penicillin daily for 5 days??? I have read that doseage recommendations are once every 2 days, but I am doing severe water changes. What do you guys think? I wouldn't medicate while in hypo, wait til hypo is done and salnity is back to normal
Is Nori from the grocery store the same as what is being sold at the LFS...like Ocean Nutrition Seaweed, etc.? Pretty much
What is this main ingredient in Selcon...Omega-3 HUFA? Seems unique to Selcon? Aksing because Selcon seems lacking in amino acids and vitamins when I compare it to Boyd's. I don't know, but this what others recommend, I dont use it just feed a varity of foods, plus food soaked in garlic.
BTW- my display tank has persistant high nitrates. We did a 10% water change and STILL have high nitrates. Is it time to get a skimmer? Yes or algea scruber or chunk of chaeto (with light) Should we have someone come to clean our sump, sponges, etc. Keep in mind, that stuff is foreign to us since we have had the tank set up for a month or so. Rinse it with discarded water during a water change at least 3 times a year.

 

[foxandhound]

Here is probably the most important question of all....what level should we aim for with low salinity treatment? I have read 0.010 - 0.013.
I bought a new refractometer from LFS and noticed that the lowest level it reads is 0.016.
When I went to return it, I was told that you should NEVER go lower than 0.016 for hyposalinity. How convenient! They said all fish would likely die and they would never do that for their own in-store Hospital Tanks. ??
What gives? Another worker there told they dont make low range refractometers? I thought I had one before I broke it and tossed it, but now I kinda cant remember the range and I'm doubting myself. Uhh. Panic!
My hydrometer is reading 0.016 today and my Tang has some spots again. I dont really believe that 0.016 is ideal at all for this reason. Could someone weigh in. I thought I could trust the LFS, now not so sure. I'm on the hunt for a better refractometer asap, might need to get it by overnight shipping.
And thank you for the help! Will follow yor advice for Damsel!!!

 

[kiefers]

A good refractometer will read below 1.016. Ours read lower than that atleast. When we did hypo, we bought our salinity down to 1.007!
Someone must chim in here.....

 

[2quills]

I thought they pretty much all had 1.000 S.G. as the lowest measurement? I kept my tank down at 1.009 s.g. or as close to that as I could keep it while performing hypo.

 

[2quills]

Didn't know this....

As far as we can tell, D-D’s Seawater refractometer is perhaps the ever such device that is scaled and calibrated for use with seawater. “That’s crazy talk” you say as you peer upon your aquarium refractometer which was likely designed for use with saltwater or brine, a solution consisting solely of sodium chloride (NaCl). By comparison, although seawater contains a majority of sodium chloride, it also includes a significant portion of magnesium, calcium, carbonates and all of the major, minor and trace elements we have come to know and love and which impart on seawater a significantly different refractive index than a pure brine solution. The difference between saltwater and seawater may be small but in the neighborhood of where we measure aquarium salt levels, where a proper seawater refractometer measures 29 ppt (1.022 s.g.), the average saltwater refractometer is telling you your salt level is at 32 ppt (1.024 s.g.). So you may think that your salt mix is low in calcium and alkalinity but in fact, you just need to add more salt mix to get your water to a proper salinity, silly.
If you currently own a refractometer, you can go ahead and recalibrate it using a seawater reference solution of a known salinity but there’s something inherently unfair about having to “fix” an expensive testing device which should do the right job in the first place. What makes the D-D seawater refractometer different is that the scale is also designed for seawater usage so you can calibrate the refractometer with pure freshwater at 20C and the rest of the scale will fall right in line with expected seawater refraction values. We must admit it was quite a jar to go around to all of our tanks with our Sybon and the D-D refractometers to find out that all of our tanks were actually at much lower salinities than we thought, explaining away a whole mess of issues we’ve had in the past with running hypo in a fish or reef, or issues with calcium and alkalinity from certain salt mixes. There’s a whole lot more we could explicate about the re[purcussions of this, but for now we’ll just direct you to a nice article on salinity and it’s measurement by Stuart Bertram of D-D the aquarium solution. The D-D Seawater Refractometer costs about the same as other refractometers and it is available from dealers of D-D Aquarium Solution products.