Quarantine Tank Help...Sick Tang in beginning stages
- Thread starter foxandhound
- Start date
kiefers
Active Member
I keep reading pretty much the same thing here and I am starting to see a pattern. First and formost, checking the trates in your QT is useless. This will not harm your fish in these amounts. The important thing to measure would be the amm. trites, and pH, and of coarse the salinity.
Try and not make this harder than it really is. It is indeed stressful but remember K.I.S.S.
JMO
Try and not make this harder than it really is. It is indeed stressful but remember K.I.S.S.
JMO
foxandhound
Member
I am still lowering salinty slooooowly because I have a hydrometer only since the D-D refractometer incident. I am now at 0.012 and staying around here until the new refractometer comes.
My Tang was "spotless" yesterday (at 0.016) and the people at the LFS got in my head when warning me to not to go below 0.016. Well, today the Ich spots were back on the Tang and with a triple vengence. Perhaps 1000s of them, everywhere, even on her eyes and gills... Thanks LFS!!!
Hope I've intervened fast enough.
Also, the Dottyback and Maroon Clown are scratching against the sponge filter now.
My other clown is doing well, hosting a PVC pipe??? :X So, there's the good and bad.
Too bad that silly D-D refractometer cant help. It is the only one in my town. I am going to order the one off saltwaterfish.com with the internal light. Does anyone know if it ships overnight too with cleanup crew critters (for my DT)? Probably not...what is typical shipping for South Florida for non-livestock?
My Tang was "spotless" yesterday (at 0.016) and the people at the LFS got in my head when warning me to not to go below 0.016. Well, today the Ich spots were back on the Tang and with a triple vengence. Perhaps 1000s of them, everywhere, even on her eyes and gills... Thanks LFS!!!
Hope I've intervened fast enough.Also, the Dottyback and Maroon Clown are scratching against the sponge filter now.
My other clown is doing well, hosting a PVC pipe??? :X So, there's the good and bad.
Too bad that silly D-D refractometer cant help. It is the only one in my town. I am going to order the one off saltwaterfish.com with the internal light. Does anyone know if it ships overnight too with cleanup crew critters (for my DT)? Probably not...what is typical shipping for South Florida for non-livestock?
foxandhound
Member
Why is my tank CLOUDY and what to do now?
Phosphates are only slightly elevated. Everything else is normal, except I am always fighting the acidic pH. I have been adding baking soda (not baked) iin the RO/DI water to match the tank pH....but ehh...the tank got cloudy after a water change. Then, I did another water change...maybe 15%. So, what should I do?
It is reeeeeally cloudy, but the fish can find food, are eating, etc. Should I do a more severe water change?
Phosphates are only slightly elevated. Everything else is normal, except I am always fighting the acidic pH. I have been adding baking soda (not baked) iin the RO/DI water to match the tank pH....but ehh...the tank got cloudy after a water change. Then, I did another water change...maybe 15%. So, what should I do?
It is reeeeeally cloudy, but the fish can find food, are eating, etc. Should I do a more severe water change?
mr. limpid
Active Member
I never used baking soda, just buffers from LFS. I believe your problem is caused by not baking the baking soda, it should be baked before using it.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3436579
I never used baking soda, just buffers from LFS. I believe your problem is caused by not baking the baking soda, it should be baked before using it.
I disagree.
1) baking soda is sodium bicarbonate and baking it results in sodium carbonate. But will buffer and even provide carbonate for clams, and hard corals.
2) the problem is the presence ich which the tang appears to not be fighting off.
So baked or unbaked baking soda or aquarium buffers will have no effect on the ich problem
To me what needs to happen is to change the environment so that whatever ich remains can be fought off by the fish.
my .02
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3436579
I never used baking soda, just buffers from LFS. I believe your problem is caused by not baking the baking soda, it should be baked before using it.
I disagree.
1) baking soda is sodium bicarbonate and baking it results in sodium carbonate. But will buffer and even provide carbonate for clams, and hard corals.
2) the problem is the presence ich which the tang appears to not be fighting off.
So baked or unbaked baking soda or aquarium buffers will have no effect on the ich problem
To me what needs to happen is to change the environment so that whatever ich remains can be fought off by the fish.
my .02
mr. limpid
Active Member
Beaslbob, the baking soda comment is about the cloudy water. His ick problem is because he doesn't have a refractor meter yet, so salinity is not at the proper levels yet. Also FoxandHound keep doing water changes until water clears up.
foxandhound
Member
Well, it just kinda resolved on it's own. The cloudy water is clearing up everyday. I guess I killed a lot of helpful bacteria and the water got cloudy? Well, I kept using unbaked baking soda and no issues there since we are clearing up. I am guessing the baked baking soda will be a more powerful buffer, so I will now bake it!
My Tang with the 1000s of spots is fighting this and responding to treatment. She went from having thousands of spots to only a few in just a couple days. My hydometer is accurate so the hypo has been underway! I tested with a refractometer from saltwaterfish.com (the one with the light which I love)!
The Tang does seem to have explosive poops. I mean, she spits out a slurry of poop snow. What's going on there? She eats everything in sight. Could this be a parasite or worm problem as well?????
Also, I picked up a 50% off deal at the LFS. It was a rock with tons of mushrooms and when I put it in my tank, I was able to look at it with the polyps closed. Well, it's like the rock from hell. It has lots of brown aiptasia and 2 other mystery things on it. Please help me ID them...and what should I do with this rock? Return it??? I have a feeling I got suckered here with a bad rock.
1) This is a clear tiny stem with a clear circle and clear rays extending around the circle. I have seen these in the tanks at petstores before. They look like a pest. What is it? There's about 4 on this rock.
2.) There is lots of clear and blue-ish sparkly/glittery strands, long and hair like. They look irridescent and they shine. What are these small sparkly strands?
My Tang with the 1000s of spots is fighting this and responding to treatment. She went from having thousands of spots to only a few in just a couple days. My hydometer is accurate so the hypo has been underway! I tested with a refractometer from saltwaterfish.com (the one with the light which I love)!
The Tang does seem to have explosive poops. I mean, she spits out a slurry of poop snow. What's going on there? She eats everything in sight. Could this be a parasite or worm problem as well?????
Also, I picked up a 50% off deal at the LFS. It was a rock with tons of mushrooms and when I put it in my tank, I was able to look at it with the polyps closed. Well, it's like the rock from hell. It has lots of brown aiptasia and 2 other mystery things on it. Please help me ID them...and what should I do with this rock? Return it??? I have a feeling I got suckered here with a bad rock.
1) This is a clear tiny stem with a clear circle and clear rays extending around the circle. I have seen these in the tanks at petstores before. They look like a pest. What is it? There's about 4 on this rock.
2.) There is lots of clear and blue-ish sparkly/glittery strands, long and hair like. They look irridescent and they shine. What are these small sparkly strands?
travelerjp98
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3437058
The Tang does seem to have explosive poops. I mean, she spits out a slurry of poop snow. What's going on there? She eats everything in sight. Could this be a parasite or worm problem as well?????
Also, I picked up a 50% off deal at the LFS. It was a rock with tons of mushrooms and when I put it in my tank, I was able to look at it with the polyps closed. Well, it's like the rock from hell. It has lots of brown aiptasia and 2 other mystery things on it. Please help me ID them...and what should I do with this rock? Return it??? I have a feeling I got suckered here with a bad rock.
1) This is a clear tiny stem with a clear circle and clear rays extending around the circle. I have seen these in the tanks at petstores before. They look like a pest. What is it? There's about 4 on this rock.
2.) There is lots of clear and blue-ish sparkly/glittery strands, long and hair like. They look irridescent and they shine. What are these small sparkly strands?
As to your tangs poop.... that sounds... gross.
I think that the first pest is Aiptasia sp. Not sure what the second one is.
Pictures would really help in confirming/indetifying them.
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3437058
The Tang does seem to have explosive poops. I mean, she spits out a slurry of poop snow. What's going on there? She eats everything in sight. Could this be a parasite or worm problem as well?????
Also, I picked up a 50% off deal at the LFS. It was a rock with tons of mushrooms and when I put it in my tank, I was able to look at it with the polyps closed. Well, it's like the rock from hell. It has lots of brown aiptasia and 2 other mystery things on it. Please help me ID them...and what should I do with this rock? Return it??? I have a feeling I got suckered here with a bad rock.
1) This is a clear tiny stem with a clear circle and clear rays extending around the circle. I have seen these in the tanks at petstores before. They look like a pest. What is it? There's about 4 on this rock.
2.) There is lots of clear and blue-ish sparkly/glittery strands, long and hair like. They look irridescent and they shine. What are these small sparkly strands?
As to your tangs poop.... that sounds... gross.
I think that the first pest is Aiptasia sp. Not sure what the second one is.
Pictures would really help in confirming/indetifying them.
foxandhound
Member
Update: Everyone is still alive and doing very well during hyposalinity (refractometer verified). Not a single spot of Ich in a week or so. Our Tang's poop has normalized as well. Not sure what that poop slurry was all about. Anyone????? I also have now decreased feeding from 1-2xs/day to once every other day.
Well, my main DT needed a protein skimmer, so I got the eshopps 100 model (for a 75 G tank). I cant even imagine this fitting in my sump. It got me thinking. Maybe I need a new sump. I actually remmeber our aquarium guy telling me that. What size is recommended for 75 G? HELP! Thanks!
Well, my main DT needed a protein skimmer, so I got the eshopps 100 model (for a 75 G tank). I cant even imagine this fitting in my sump. It got me thinking. Maybe I need a new sump. I actually remmeber our aquarium guy telling me that. What size is recommended for 75 G? HELP!
Thanks!
tirtza
Member
I am soooooo following this thread! I fear that Ich is just a matter of time....I've only been in this hobby for 4 (almost 5) months....but I plan on being in it forever and I'm sure that there will come a day where I have to deal with it. I would love to see an article written with a detailed explanation of the steps to take. I'm going to carefully read through this thread and create a list of the bits of wisdom provided here.
kiefers
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tirtza http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3438796
I am soooooo following this thread! I fear that Ich is just a matter of time....I've only been in this hobby for 4 (almost 5) months....but I plan on being in it forever and I'm sure that there will come a day where I have to deal with it. I would love to see an article written with a detailed explanation of the steps to take. I'm going to carefully read through this thread and create a list of the bits of wisdom provided here.
I'm sure snake has one written in his method shtuff. Lol....
If not I can give you some pointers, pretty simple really.
Originally Posted by tirtza http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3438796
I am soooooo following this thread! I fear that Ich is just a matter of time....I've only been in this hobby for 4 (almost 5) months....but I plan on being in it forever and I'm sure that there will come a day where I have to deal with it. I would love to see an article written with a detailed explanation of the steps to take. I'm going to carefully read through this thread and create a list of the bits of wisdom provided here.
I'm sure snake has one written in his method shtuff. Lol....
If not I can give you some pointers, pretty simple really.
foxandhound
Member
Oh, maybe someone can show me a pic of an eshopps in a sump or hung into the sump? I keep looking at this thing wondering how it can fit. Still not sure of sump size for 75 G.
Everyone is Spotless and Happy Happy!!!
Yes, so many people here helped put it altogether for me. IF I had to EVER do it again, I'd uhh look into this Macros thing. I mean, setting this up and first few weeks was a pain.
Good Luck with Copper. How long does that take?
Everyone is Spotless and Happy Happy!!!
Yes, so many people here helped put it altogether for me. IF I had to EVER do it again, I'd uhh look into this Macros thing. I mean, setting this up and first few weeks was a pain.
Good Luck with Copper. How long does that take?
kiefers
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3438853
Oh, maybe someone can show me a pic of an eshopps in a sump or hung into the sump? I keep looking at this thing wondering how it can fit. Still not sure of sump size for 75 G.
Everyone is Spotless and Happy Happy!!!
Yes, so many people here helped put it altogether for me. IF I had to EVER do it again, I'd uhh look into this Macros thing. I mean, setting this up and first few weeks was a pain.
Good Luck with Copper. How long does that take?
1 month, + a couple of weeks for observation.
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3438853
Oh, maybe someone can show me a pic of an eshopps in a sump or hung into the sump? I keep looking at this thing wondering how it can fit. Still not sure of sump size for 75 G.
Everyone is Spotless and Happy Happy!!!
Yes, so many people here helped put it altogether for me. IF I had to EVER do it again, I'd uhh look into this Macros thing. I mean, setting this up and first few weeks was a pain.
Good Luck with Copper. How long does that take?
1 month, + a couple of weeks for observation.
foxandhound
Member
Update: Everyone is back in my display tank as of YESTERDAY!!!
It was a sad and long battle. I honestly would not do hyposalinity again. It was so stressful on the fish, myself, and my family. The amount of water changes and additional equipment was painful. A filter sponge was insufficient for this many fish. I had to get HOB filters, heaters, feed often to encoruage immune response, the tank would get cloudy, bacteria would cycle then die off in monster water changes. I was chasing ammonia and nitrates often. I was struggling to maintain pH and salinity because of evaporation and water changes. Things would normalize for a bit, maybe a week without a water change, and then it would get nuts all over again. Very painful when the ICH returned on week 4 and I had to keep everyone quarantined/hospitalized for an additional 4 weeks or so. That is pretty much what left the sour taste in my mouth. I lost two fish in the process, a cutie pie dottyback and a damsel. Many fish started acting stir crazy and aggressive by week 4 or so, there was fighting and broken fins despite many, many PVC pipes and hiding places. I actually built stacked caves and got more PVC than pictured. I think I would definitely recommend copper which is only a 2-3 week treatment as far as I know. I wanted to hospitalize another week, but couldnt get the nitrites down, and needed to do 80% water changes towards the end. It was awful. Copper is the way to go IMO, but keep in mind, I was treating several fish, not 2 or 3. The bioload was just too much.
So, everyone who survived is doing well and so freggin thankful to be home in the DT. The fish who were terrorizing the others have stopped completely. There is fullfillment in their lives. lol.
Moral of the story: QT everything, and perhaps hyposalinity is inappropraite for more than 2-3 fish at a time due to bioload and length of time needed to complete treatment.
BTW, I wanted to give macro algae as someone mentioned here preventatively? Where can I get it and what kind should I get? Does saltwaterfish have it?
It was a sad and long battle. I honestly would not do hyposalinity again. It was so stressful on the fish, myself, and my family. The amount of water changes and additional equipment was painful. A filter sponge was insufficient for this many fish. I had to get HOB filters, heaters, feed often to encoruage immune response, the tank would get cloudy, bacteria would cycle then die off in monster water changes. I was chasing ammonia and nitrates often. I was struggling to maintain pH and salinity because of evaporation and water changes. Things would normalize for a bit, maybe a week without a water change, and then it would get nuts all over again. Very painful when the ICH returned on week 4 and I had to keep everyone quarantined/hospitalized for an additional 4 weeks or so. That is pretty much what left the sour taste in my mouth. I lost two fish in the process, a cutie pie dottyback and a damsel.
Many fish started acting stir crazy and aggressive by week 4 or so, there was fighting and broken fins despite many, many PVC pipes and hiding places. I actually built stacked caves and got more PVC than pictured. I think I would definitely recommend copper which is only a 2-3 week treatment as far as I know. I wanted to hospitalize another week, but couldnt get the nitrites down, and needed to do 80% water changes towards the end. It was awful. Copper is the way to go IMO, but keep in mind, I was treating several fish, not 2 or 3. The bioload was just too much.So, everyone who survived is doing well and so freggin thankful to be home in the DT. The fish who were terrorizing the others have stopped completely. There is fullfillment in their lives. lol.
Moral of the story: QT everything, and perhaps hyposalinity is inappropraite for more than 2-3 fish at a time due to bioload and length of time needed to complete treatment.
BTW, I wanted to give macro algae as someone mentioned here preventatively? Where can I get it and what kind should I get? Does saltwaterfish have it?
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
I believe Saltwaterfish does have some macros.
I would try chaetomorphia (brillo pad) or caulerpa prolifera aregood macros to start with. If saltwaterfish does no have those you can try searching.
the best thing IMHO is that locals may be tossing some every few weeks or so and would just give you some.
my .02
I would try chaetomorphia (brillo pad) or caulerpa prolifera aregood macros to start with. If saltwaterfish does no have those you can try searching.
the best thing IMHO is that locals may be tossing some every few weeks or so and would just give you some.
my .02
S
smallreef
Guest
Did you ever decide on a sump size? I always go with the BIGGEST that will fit in my cabinet.. so if you can fit a 40g or a 40 breeder,, do that,, the more water volume the better...
also with QTing for ich,, you want to leave you DT fallow for as long as possible 4 weeks is okay but 8 weeks means you have no ICH in the DT anymore either for definite.... just sayin
and I LOVE MACRO ALGAE so yep its a good thing, just make sure you have a light on your sump so it can grow properly and not die off... and make sure you can keep it contained without parts of it getting into your main tank,, it can go crazy sometimes...
also with QTing for ich,, you want to leave you DT fallow for as long as possible 4 weeks is okay but 8 weeks means you have no ICH in the DT anymore either for definite.... just sayin
and I LOVE MACRO ALGAE so yep its a good thing, just make sure you have a light on your sump so it can grow properly and not die off... and make sure you can keep it contained without parts of it getting into your main tank,, it can go crazy sometimes...
foxandhound
Member
Devastating news: my Tang has ICH again. Im so sad. Everyone was in hyposalinity for almost 8 weeks. I cant do it again. Cant afford it.
Someone please tell me about In Tank Treatments....Macro Algae, UV Sterilizer, etc.
For anyone reading, do not do hyposalinity. It is next to impossible for more than a few fish. Copper will be the better choice. Wish I did that.
Thank you small reef, I am looking around and getting dimensions for what can fit.
Im so sad. Everyone was in hyposalinity for almost 8 weeks. I cant do it again. Cant afford it.Someone please tell me about In Tank Treatments....Macro Algae, UV Sterilizer, etc.
For anyone reading, do not do hyposalinity. It is next to impossible for more than a few fish. Copper will be the better choice. Wish I did that.
Thank you small reef, I am looking around and getting dimensions for what can fit.
btldreef
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3451811
Devastating news: my Tang has ICH again. Im so sad. Everyone was in hyposalinity for almost 8 weeks. I cant do it again. Cant afford it.
Someone please tell me about In Tank Treatments....Macro Algae, UV Sterilizer, etc. How long exactly were they in hypo for? How long were they at the lowest salinity level before you raised it back up? Was your DT completely fishless during this time? Do you dip your corals?
I'm not really sure how a UV Sterilizer is going to be cheaper than doing hypo. Macro will do NOTHING for ich, nor will in tank treatments. If it were that easy, we wouldn't need quarantine tanks, unfortunately.
For anyone reading, do not do hyposalinity. It is next to impossible for more than a few fish. Copper will be the better choice. Wish I did that. I highly disagree. While I don't want to kick you while you're down, I think you did something wrong in the hypo treatment. It sounds as if the fish were not left in hypo long enough. The 8 weeks is really for their lowest salinity level, not total time. If it took you 2 weeks to lower salinity, they may not have been in the lower level long enough. It's possible that it's also not ich if hypo isn't working. You might have also introduced it some other way such as with corals. Even a snail shell can technically carry ich (although unlikely). Copper treatment can be very dangerous for certain fish, and can really stress out a fish that is already not doing well. I've seen copper do more harm than good in ich treatments. I've watched copper kill quite a few fish, especially when people over dose.
Thank you small reef, I am looking around and getting dimensions for what can fit.
Sorry that you're going through this, it's not fun at all. As I mentioned above, unfortunately there is NO in tank treatment that will cure ich if live rock/live sand/inverts or corals are present.
That being said, it sounds like you really don't want to QT again. Although I don't think this is a smart move, there is a newer product on the market which a few local reefers around me have used and are having good luck with it. It is called Microbe Lift Herbtana and they are running it in their coral reefs. I have a dying goby right now that I can not catch and have been using it with no ill effects towards my corals, inverts or macro algae. I'm not sure what it will do for ich for you, but some people are claiming that a 2 dose treatment (20 days instead of the recommended 10 works).
Originally Posted by FoxandHound http:///t/388941/quarantine-tank-help-sick-tang-in-beginning-stages/60#post_3451811
Devastating news: my Tang has ICH again.
Im so sad. Everyone was in hyposalinity for almost 8 weeks. I cant do it again. Cant afford it.Someone please tell me about In Tank Treatments....Macro Algae, UV Sterilizer, etc. How long exactly were they in hypo for? How long were they at the lowest salinity level before you raised it back up? Was your DT completely fishless during this time? Do you dip your corals?
I'm not really sure how a UV Sterilizer is going to be cheaper than doing hypo. Macro will do NOTHING for ich, nor will in tank treatments. If it were that easy, we wouldn't need quarantine tanks, unfortunately.
For anyone reading, do not do hyposalinity. It is next to impossible for more than a few fish. Copper will be the better choice. Wish I did that. I highly disagree. While I don't want to kick you while you're down, I think you did something wrong in the hypo treatment. It sounds as if the fish were not left in hypo long enough. The 8 weeks is really for their lowest salinity level, not total time. If it took you 2 weeks to lower salinity, they may not have been in the lower level long enough. It's possible that it's also not ich if hypo isn't working. You might have also introduced it some other way such as with corals. Even a snail shell can technically carry ich (although unlikely). Copper treatment can be very dangerous for certain fish, and can really stress out a fish that is already not doing well. I've seen copper do more harm than good in ich treatments. I've watched copper kill quite a few fish, especially when people over dose.
Thank you small reef, I am looking around and getting dimensions for what can fit.
Sorry that you're going through this, it's not fun at all. As I mentioned above, unfortunately there is NO in tank treatment that will cure ich if live rock/live sand/inverts or corals are present.
That being said, it sounds like you really don't want to QT again. Although I don't think this is a smart move, there is a newer product on the market which a few local reefers around me have used and are having good luck with it. It is called Microbe Lift Herbtana and they are running it in their coral reefs. I have a dying goby right now that I can not catch and have been using it with no ill effects towards my corals, inverts or macro algae. I'm not sure what it will do for ich for you, but some people are claiming that a 2 dose treatment (20 days instead of the recommended 10 works).