Quesion: I need opinions

S

sandy

Guest
I have a 50 gal FOWLR with 100lbs of LR and 2-3" LS. I'm running a fluval with little or no media that I keep cleaned out twice a week until I can get a good protein skimmer. Preferably I will have a sump built, but $$$ is an issue for now.
I'm religious about water changes and use ro/di with aged Instant Ocean Salt. Ammonia and NitrIte are zero. My Nitrates stay around 40ppm. Too high for my inverts IMO.
Question is: if I increase the sandbed depth slowly to 4" -- will this help considering that I don't have a good PS? Or will it just hurt?
LS is well infused with worms, micro hermits, queen conch, fighting conch, snails and stars. Pods, well, I've got a yellow head sleeper goby and two scooter blennies. I think they wipe out most of the pods. I don't think this is a problem b/c they take frozen foods.
My bio-load is reasonable. Feeding and no PS is an issue. Probably the Fluval as well.
So two questions:
1) should I increase the sandbed depth or not yet
2) can I do too many or too much water changes. I'm thinking about 20 gal to reduce NitrAtes.
Thanks all.
 
almarktool

almarktool

Member
Sandy,
i would hold off on the ls and save up for the PS JMO i only have maybe 3" SB and 75lbs LR in my 72 gallon but i am using sump with protein skimmer my levels are 0 across the board and to be honest ( shame on me ) i don't know when i last did a water change but i am going to do one tonight , i have 2 diamond gobies ( trying to get them out prob destroying my SB ) 1 yellow tang, 1 dwarf lion, 1 mandrian, 1 coral beauty, 1 alge blennie, and a strawberry gramma
 
S

sandy

Guest
Thanks. Actually, I compromised. I just added 10 lbs of Natures Ocean and did a large water change. I'll check my NitrAtes tomorrow.
I will hold off on anymore LS. Sump is the longer term goal (and lighting). Decent hang on skimmer is first. My "source" for the PS fell through. Long story. Thought I had one ordered. Not.
Critters all looking good.
 
S

sandy

Guest
Fluval b/c the darn lfs sold it to me as a necessity when I was a newbie. I run it just for circulaton and to use media (like carbon) from time to time. I also do my small water changes by changing out the water in the Fluval instead of messing with the tank.
2 False Percs
2 Scooter Blenny
1 Sleeper Goby
1 Royal Gramma
1 Cleaner Shrimp
3 Pepperment Shrimp
1 Serpent Star
1 Chocolate Chip Star
1 Queen Conch
1 Fighting Convh
Various hermits, micro-hermits and snails
Sandbed is now 4" (I forgot to measure the part I don't see that sits in the stand - lol) dat's an inch.
 
mr . salty

mr . salty

Active Member
I realise you said you use RO/DI water,,,But have you ever checked the nitrate level in your water before you add it to the tank?????By looking at your setup,I am wondering where those readings are comming from.Water changes are a likly sorce...
 
S

sandy

Guest
Yes, I've tested the water I put into the tank. It is perfect and expensive water. I did make the mistake of using tap (de-clorinated) some weeks back as top off. Won't do that again. Had to change my light bulbs b/c of some red slime growth.
Me-thinks I still suck at the overfeeding thang. The dsb is only a few months old. So between those two and no ps I'm guessing that is my Trate problem. Whaddya think?
I did do a large water change with r/o d/i. (That is all I'll use from now on. I'll check the trates and report back.
Thanks
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
Sandy
In my opinion, adding more sand of the right grain size may help to reduce nitrates, but it will take a long time before you realize if it's actually doing anything or not. Months maybe.
I think you may have answered your own question;
Me-thinks I still suck at the overfeeding thang
Overfeeding is a really good way to end up with excess nitrate. The best DSB, protein skimmer and any other stuff we do is no match for too much nutrient import. It's a balancing act of what goes in and what goes out of the tank. Plus nitrates that are not exported with an algae refugium, or converted to nitrogen gas in the depths of the live sandbed - will just continue to increase in concentration.
Believe me - it took a long time for me to realize this. Longer than I'd like to admit.
Feed yes
Overfeed no
Hard to tell the difference - everyones tanks and fish are different. But cutting back some may help - if done wisely.
I've come to believe that doing large water changes to reduce nitrate or any other level is better than doing a lot of small ones.
Here's an article I enjoyed reading regarding water changes for this purpose. If you've already seen this - sorry.
HTH
CRAIG BINGMAN - water changes
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Now that your sand bed is 4" I believe you'll see a marked decrease in Nitrate in the following months. I takes about 3 months for a fully functioning deep sand bed to reduce Nitrate but probably less for you because you already had a live sand bed.
Guy
 
smalltimer

smalltimer

Member
Unless you want something pretty, get a rubbermaid for a sump, they come in ALL sizes, and use large piece of sponge, available a lfs to seperate, skimmer, incoming h2o side and outlet, submersible pump, so you don't get those horrable bubbles. The only time I see an acrilic sump is when you need an external pump with a bulk head. All you need is the overflow, and a return pump rated for the overflow and you are set. Under 100 dollars...............MO $ for goooood skimmer. DSB or not don't skimp on the skimmer.:D
 
fshhub

fshhub

Active Member
another note, some HOB skimmers can also be used with sumps, and if you are considering the remaora pro still, it i believe can be used with a sump too,
also as mentioned, sumps can be inexpesive to build, the major cost is in the overflow, unless you want to spend money on pretty equipment that is normally hidden and almost never seen
 
S

sandy

Guest
Thanks all. Sorry this is so long, but I've a few things to share. Hope you hang with me.
Broomer: good article. I had the idea from smaller water changes from the book: "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John H. Tullock. I did do a large water change and saw the NitrAte drop significantly. I did this on Saturday. I have another 20 gallons aging - could I do another one tomorrow? I still keep the Fluval cleaned out about 2-3 times a week until I can get rid of the thing. (need ps and/ or mag. pump for better circulation.
RE: Sump -- so, I can build one that will not overflow all over the floor, huh? I have a few diagrams, but what is the KEY element that keeps the HOB overflow from causing problems?
RE: PS - don't think I'm gonna get the Remora anytime soon. I did contract para-legal work for it and the person responsible has seriously screwed me. Lessons learned. (I'm a Gulf War Vet on SSD who cannot earn too much $$$ each month -- so I made the "gift" arrangement) grrrrrrr. I'm thinking of the new SeaClone until I get my tax return, which is devoted to my tank.
RE: feeding. I've been much more carful about how much food gets into the tank at a time. (watch the fish feed, etc.) I've read that Sleeper Goby and Clownfish need small amounts of food more often. Also to keep the Goby and Blenny's from completly depleting the pod population. Am I wrong?
RE: change out water. Per instructions on this list I took the r/o d/i water that I use for change and put it in a 20 gal tank with hang on filter, powerhead, limestone air stone and heater. I ran the fresh water for 24 hours then added instant ocean and ran for another 24 hours well aeriated. PH tested at 11am is STILL around 8.6. (grrrr). NitrAte is ZERO. I've tested the source of my water many times and all parameters except PH are perfect.
I look forward to the DSB doing it's job. Most of the sand in there is Nature's Ocean. Some LS from established tank, etc.
If you made it this far. THANK YOU.
Sandy :D
 
S

sandy

Guest
Oh, I do have a rather large sponge type thing that seems to shed stuff when I move the rock -- otherwise looks healthy. (has two or three fairly large clear openings on it.
Could this be causing a problem? It is not exposed to air outside the tank... but water changes, prob gets air on it. Should I keep it or remove it?
 
smalltimer

smalltimer

Member
Sandy, on the ph, in the mix, your ro di takes out ALL o2 from h2o, don't ask me how, adding large amounts of o2 is probley pushing up ph, just a guess, as far as the overflow, the box is made so it holds water in the tube coming over the tank at all times, so when you cut off the return pump, h2o drains out until it brakes the suction on the overflow, not too much, the return pump needs to either have a check valve in it or just drill a small hole, small is all it takes, in the return nozzle just below the runnnig h2o level, when you turn off the power to the return pump, sim a power outage, it will back drain until the little hole breakes the siphon, trust me, I have it on mine as we speak, as far as the level in the sump, make sure it runs about 1/2 full, all pumps running then cut the power, and watch it, it should fill up a little then stop, if it doesn't find the siphon and find a way to break it, I don't know how big your tank is but you will have only 1 return and one supply from the in sump return pump, drill a hole in it and the overflow box willl work from the way it is designed.
I have one, it works:D
 
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