question for any electricians on here

[pontius]

I have a common household outlet (2 plugs) on the wall directly behind my stand. I am uneasy about having that electricity with the cords and strip plugs in that close a proximity to water (I have a 65 gallon sump/fuge and the fuge is only about 4" from the outlet.
so I'm wondering, how much trouble and cost would it be to kill the power to this outlet, then go in on either end of the tank (a few inches outside and away from the stand) and put in multi plug outlets? is it possible to have a 10 plug outlet on each end of the tank, or is that too much?

 

[gen1dustin]

I'm no electrician, but I think that would be simple. Just flip the breaker for that plug first(of course). Then take that plug out run wires from their to to each side of the tank & cut a little piece of the wall out. Put the little boxes behinde the sheet rock & get the plugs. Put a blank plate on the old hole. At my Father's school we just did a similar thing killed one & from that ran two others.

 

[dogstar]

A lot depends.
Could be easy and cheap or nearly impossible to have the wireing INSIDE the wall so it all looks good and like the original part of the house..... Could do it your self if you a little handy with tools...
with the tank in the way you may have to work from the other side of the wall and cut some holes into the sheetrock and patch and paint afterwards.......
Thats even if the wall is a typical hollow stud and sheetrock wall, if its brick or solid or an outside wall of the house then working with the tank there will make it harder.....
Also this does not give you more power for more equipment because its still the same circuit and still will trip with the same breaker or fuse...I dont know how much you understand about that so ....
The drawing shows what it should look like inside a typical stud wall.....
May have to cross more studs and could be other wireing , plumbing pipes ect, already inside the wall and in the way....more than likely you will have to make the holes thru the studs....
list of stuff, should be able to get all at a HomeDepot or simular
2- 4 gang plast box
8- 15 or 20 amp recepticals ( outlets, 7 if you use the old one )
2- 4 gang recptical cover
1- 1 gang waterproof blank cover ( this goes were the old outlet is and will have a gasket )
A small box of RED wire nuts
# of feet of 12/2 romex wire with a ground ( Make sure you get enough and alow for 2 feet comeing out at each box to work the spliceing )
Im useing 4 gang size that will give you 4 receptical with 8 plugs on each side, 5 or larger size boxes are ugly IMO and harder to find.....
Spliceing is just color to color and TURN OFF POWER TO THAT OUTLET befor you open it up...
If you do it yourself and have tools then should be around $ 50. 00 or so for the stuff plus any patching and paint stuff. Every house is built different and there could be more or less wires in that outlet box......
Look it over and ask more question if you want....

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
A lot depends.
Could be easy and cheap or nearly impossible to have the wireing INSIDE the wall so it all looks good and like the original part of the house..... Could do it your self if you a little handy with tools...
with the tank in the way you may have to work from the other side of the wall and cut some holes into the sheetrock and patch and paint afterwards.......
Thats even if the wall is a typical hollow stud and sheetrock wall, if its brick or solid or an outside wall of the house then working with the tank there will make it harder.....
Also this does not give you more power for more equipment because its still the same circuit and still will trip with the same breaker or fuse...I dont know how much you understand about that so ....
The drawing shows what it should look like inside a typical stud wall.....
May have to cross more studs and could be other wireing , plumbing pipes ect, already inside the wall and in the way....more than likely you will have to make the holes thru the studs....
list of stuff, should be able to get all at a HomeDepot or simular
2- 4 gang plast box
8- 15 or 20 amp recepticals ( outlets, 7 if you use the old one )
2- 4 gang recptical cover
1- 1 gang waterproof blank cover ( this goes were the old outlet is and will have a gasket )
A small box of RED wire nuts
# of feet of 12/2 romex wire with a ground ( Make sure you get enough and alow for 2 feet comeing out at each box to work the spliceing )
Im useing 4 gang size that will give you 4 receptical with 8 plugs on each side, 5 or larger size boxes are ugly IMO and harder to find.....
Spliceing is just color to color and TURN OFF POWER TO THAT OUTLET befor you open it up...
If you do it yourself and have tools then should be around $ 50. 00 or so for the stuff plus any patching and paint stuff. Every house is built different and there could be more or less wires in that outlet box......
Look it over and ask more question if you want....
I don't know if I'm good enough with tools, particularly where electricity is involved.
it is a typical stud/sheet rock wall (house is 2 years old) and is an inside wall. the kitchen and dining room are on the other side of the wall but I don't think there is any plumbing crossed where this outlet is.
the outlet isn't exactly in the middle of the stand, it's almost to the right end of the stand, so there *should* be room enough for someone to work back there.
now a question about the power... how much voltage/wattage can a typical circuit handle? are you saying that all the plugs on this wall are probably running on the same circuit?

 

[dogstar]

I guess you can call in contractors and get some estimates......I dont know what a contractor would charge....some are crooks you know....
watt / volts = amps
amps x volts = watts
example. 20 amp breaker at 115 volts will trip at around 2300 watts.
You would have to total up all the wattage of the equipment on the circuit and then divide that by the voltage 110, 115 or 120v is typical house voltages of a single circuit. If you try and run more amps on the circuit than the breaker is rated then it will trip...adding " another circuit " wired back to the breaker panel is how you get more addition power for the tank if the breaker is tripping now.
If other stuff is on the same circuit some where else in the house then that counts too.
One way, easiest way to tell what or where the circuit goes in the house is to turn off the breaker for that outlet and see what other outlets go dead. Most house circuits will generally have about 6 to 8 outlets on a circuit unless its in the kitchen or deticated for something like a dishwasher or washing machine, ect.

 

[al mc]

I am also not a certified electrician, but I have run many circuits at my home and business. I can not draw as well as Dogstar but I have some suggestions:
'How much voltage/wattage can the average circuit handle?".....Most home circuits have 'breakers'
rated at either 15 or 20 amps. Each appliance on the circuit draws a certain number of 'amps'. When you exceed the amperage you will trip the breaker. I am sure that this is not the only outlet
on this circuit. Figure out which lights/appliances may already be attached to this circuit...plug radios/lights in several outlets and turn off the breaker. Once you have established what other outlets are on this circuit you may want to try not to use them as they will limit how many pumps,lights, etc. that you can place on this circuit. Each 'appliance' (pump/light) will have how many 'amps' it draws stamped on it or noted in the instructions that came with the item...if you add them up and it exceeds the 'amp' number the breaker can handle you will continually 'trip' the breaker. The breaker should identify how may amps it can handle with a number on it (either 15 or 20).
Unless you have another large appliance on this circuit (you said that it is in a common wall with the
kitchen..so it may..like the 'fridge' or microwave) you should be fine.
Other solutions: 1. Replace the breaker with a GFI breaker (good to do anyway), but this should
allow you to safely use the existing wall outlet with little fear. When you go
to Home Depot make sure you note the 'make' of the breaker needed...there
are several manufacturers and their breakers are not compatible. Then just
use the existing outlet with a couple 'outlet strips'
2. I have the same problem you are describing and I purchased a GFI extention
cord that has 8 outlets on it that are all 'fault' protected..cost about $30 at
Home Depot. Just plug it into the existing outlet.
3. You could put an 'extension' electrical box with 1/2" 'knockouts' on it and run
conduit (plastic electrical pipe) to new outlets that you place anywhere in on
on your stand (Tell your hardware store what you want to do and they can
get the materials together and give you advice) This will keep you from
having to cut out and repair drywall.
No matter what else you do....get the eletrical supply to your tank protected by GFI. GFI is the technology that causes the circuit to shut down if the circuit is compromised by contact with water.
This keeps you safe as salt water and electricity don't mix well.
hope this helps....

 

[pontius]

guys thanks for the help.
this is what I've been able to come up with....
everything on my tank (it's not completely setup yet, but is filled with water) will come up to 2028 Watts. this is on the same circuit breaker (living room) as a 50" sony tv, a cable box, 2 small lamps, and a small fan.
the door of the breaker box says "the maximum short circuit rating in RMS Amperes: 240 VAC or 120/240 VAC."
so I don't know.
here another *possible* solution.....
right around the corner from the tank, no more than 3.5 feet away, is a dining room outlet. the dining room is on a breaker all to itself and there is nothing electrical whatsoever that is being used in the dining room. so I could possibly run some of the tanks stuff off this outlet.
if that is a solution, I would then have to ask about the use of extension cords, because I am not familiar at all with the rules of extension cords, daisy chaining outlet strips, etc.
as far as the gfci extensions, I have 4. each one has 3 outlets (I bought these from Lowes and the 3 outlet version is all they had, I'll have to check at Home Depot.). this has been my main point of concern....because for some reason, these plugs don't fit tightly into the outlet, so there's about 1/5th of the prong still out. I'm worried that some errant drop of water or something could hit this loose plug. I know it shouldn't start a fire since it's gfci, but it's just a concern.

 

[captainemo]

Why not run the cord from a surge protector to the outlet in the dining room. The surge protector can be screwed onto the side or back of your tank stand away from your fuge.
Just a thought. That's what I did at work.

 

[al mc]

If I have this correctly the dinning room outlet is on the opposite side of the common wall where the
tank is located. This would make putting in an electrical box relatively easy. If Dogstar reads this he can probably diagram. You would need some 12 guage electrical wire, a 'quick box' or 'existing wall out outlet box' (one that does NOT have to be attached to a stud, but just clamps onto the drywall directly) and a GFI outlet and you should be set. If intimidated grab a friend/neighbor who has done this before. Contractor would probably charge about $150 to do (in my area its about $75 an outlet in new construction and $150 in existing). It is not hard, but many people sleep better having someone else do it. Good luck

 

[dogstar]

What is the rateing of the curcuit breakers for the liveing room and the one for the dinning room 15 or 20 ??
Is the outlet in the dinning rm directly behind the stand or is it to one side or the other ?

 

[pontius]

the dining room outlet is on the other side of the wall that the aquarium is on (in the living room). it is not directly behind the stand, is would be about a foot away from the end of the stand.
I looked and can't find anything in the breaker box concerning the individual circuits.

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by Pontius
the dining room outlet is on the other side of the wall that the aquarium is on (in the living room). it is not directly behind the stand, is would be about a foot away from the end of the stand.
I looked and can't find anything in the breaker box concerning the individual circuits.
Strange, most all breakers will have the rateing stamped on the little handle of each breaker, like on the top or side of the handle.....
You can use the dining room outlet for a lot of the equipment....
If its a 15 amp. breaker then it can handle up to about 1700 watts, if its 20 amp then up to 2300 watts. Best to only load a circuit only around 80 percent to be safe....and use the curcuit behind the tank for the rest of the equipment...
I know that does not ease your consern about water getting to the outlet behind the tank so still would have to move that and blank that one off like I said in the earlier post....
Useing the one in the dinning room with X cords are fine but the cord needs to have big enough wires in them to handle the wattage so get one that has 12 gauge wire. Should have " 12 AWG " printed right on the cord somewere or on a sticker lable....
They are thick heavy duty type cords and not cheap.........
If you dont want to get a long one to run around the wall then could just make a small hole thru the sheetrock for a shorter cord to pass thru.....
Can still have someone/contractor do it like you originally asked......just have to pay out the cash.....

 

[pontius]

the breaker for the living room has "20A" stamped in white on it, so am I to assume that this is a 20 amp?
I went to Home Depot and got one of the 8 outlet gfci things that the other poster was talking about. it has an 8 foot cord that could reach around to the dining room. so could I use one of the coralife strips (with the built in timer) on this, or would that be too much daisy chaining.
I do have one other outlet in the living room that is within reach of the tank but not close enough for water to hit, so that and the dining room outlet could work well if the cords aren't too unsightly. I would rather have a few unsightly cords than a burned down house though.

 

[skirrby]

if your really concerned about water getting in the outlet behind the tank, then you could always add, what we call a bubble cover to it,, its a weatherproof receptical cover that has a clear bubble cover on it, that allows you to plug stuff in while having it closed and watertight, this would prevent water from getting into that outlet. also if you want to not worry about overloading your circuits, and have a extra space in your pannel, you could run a new circuit for your tank only,, its rather simple, just takes some attic work, and possible drywall work, but ive done it many times with no drywall damage.
I am a residental electrican. so adding stuff like this is pretty common at my job. with a few pop in boxes, a breaker, some wire, and some work, you can have a dedicated 20a circuit just for you tank, and with a gfi breaker, you can rest in peace that its all safe.
the hardest part about it is getting the wire down the wall, other than that its pretty simple, if you you want, i can try and do a step by step quide for you.

 

[pontius]

skirrby, where to get these waterproof bubble covers? I've never heard of one before. thanks for the help.

 

[skirrby]

you can find them at most hardware stores, in the electrical isle,, just tell them you need a outside receptical cover,, not the grey flat ones with little doors, the bubble ones,, they shouldnt be hard to find because they are required by code on new homes outside recepticals