Question for Ophiura

rykna

Active Member
ophiura said:
I think we want the bacteria :) But it is a sink for detritus...and the undergravel filter prevents some of that from being removed during water changes, or cleaned by surface "clean up crew" .
I was curious about the positives and negatives of crushed coral as a substrate. I originally started with the crushed coral because it was a natural calcium buffer, but ditched it for LS mainly because of info talking about the shape of the crush coral being a favorite breeding ground for bad bacteria. Also because LS is prefered by a lot of invertebrates along with many other benefits. I know we need bacteria in our tanks for clean crews....but have you heard of any info about the crushed coral being a bad bacteria factory????
Thanks,
Rykna
 

ophiura

Active Member
Nope, can't say I've heard the "bad bacteria factory" argument....nitrate factory, of course.
The root problem is that gunk - detritus - accumulates.
Now I suppose it may foster lots of bacterial growth to break it down, but this is not "bad bacteria" per se. In fact, without it in our lives we would be in trouble. We buy it in bottles to add to our tanks.
But lots of bacteria (growth fostered by lots of food from detritus) could, in some respect, cause pH problems due to producing a lot of CO2. In tanks that are properly circulated this is not a huge issue, but it can be...it is frequently seen in freshwater systems with less filtration, and with few water changes. It results in a pH drop that actually renders ammonia basically non-toxic. The owners feel a bit of guilts, do a big water change, spike the pH back up, resulting in an ammonia spike taht kills all their fish.
But it is not as common in saltwater due to increased circulation and more water changes.
I suppose people consider those "bad bacteria" but again, I don't. They are no different than the other bacteria really that we rely on to break down waste. It is the waste...and the fact that it is not removed, that causes the problem ultimately, and that is the real source and concern. This is the same argument as the "nitrate factory." It is not the bacteria, but the excess waste, that causes the problems.
Crushed coral needs to be vacuumed because the large pore spaces trap detritus. The angular particles and large sizes also does not foster quite the same infaunal organisms as a sand bed, so those also don't act as well to break down the waste. Additionally, while detritus may stay on the surface of sand, allowing hermits, snails and other "sand sifters" to process it, it can sink rather quickly into crushed coral, so that cleaners can't reach it.
It has its problems, but bad bacteria so far as I am concerned is not one of them. But then, a sand bed can also have bacterial related problems (when anaerobic regions develop, this helps our nitrates, but the byproduct of anaerobic respiration is hydrogen sulfide, a toxic gas, and should a large amount be released, it can kill things).
Crushed coral can work for people, it just may need different care and have limitations in keeping various animals. I don't necessarily believe in telling people "change to sand" because it may not be what they want.
 

rykna

Active Member
WOW!!!! :happyfish Thankyou, for taking the time, you have answered one of the many questions I have been searching for since I have started my trek in salt water, and I can look forward to using the beauty of the crushed coral in my tanks! :happyfish
Thanks,
Rykna
 

ophiura

Active Member
If you like crushed coral, and are willing to siphon it, then I don't really see why it wouldn't work. There are definitely people who have no issues with it. I personally prefer to have creatures that need the smaller substrate, and I really prefer the look of the sand...but to a certain degree, it is personal preference. A crushed coral substreate is not doomed to fail, but it does take more work, IMO.
 

ophiura

Active Member
Also, if I may ask, what was the "bad bacteria" argument. Was it the pH issue or was it just not explained, similar to the common "its a nitrate factory" answer? Was it disease causing or something? :notsure:
 

rykna

Active Member
The "bad bacteria" theroy was given to me over a year ago when I still trusted the salt water specialists. Since then I have not found any info that shed any more light on the theroy, only that people with crushed coral ended up with a complete tank crash.....now I know why. Slowly over time.....the syphoning problem with the crushed coral would lead to your tank's demise. I never thought about that aspect of it until you mentioned it. It would definately be harder to clean for the clean up crews as well as us. I have noticed the build of uneaten food, due to the larged fake rock substrate in my daughter's fresh water tank, food sits for much longer lengths of time, 2-3 days, but with the LS in my tank there in never any leftovers by morning-and I do admit to being a sucker when it comes to feeding time. Your absolutely correct, there really aren't any bad bacteria.....without we would all be buried in garbage; LS is much easier for the clean up crew to sift through......it would actually be the excess waste that would cause the problem. So the crushed coral would trap more waste over time do to it's shape. Neato!!! I love this forum! :happyfish
Thanks!!
Rykna
 

poniegirl

Active Member
Just a word of caution regarding using crushed coral in a seahorse tank..smaller peices can be snicked up and sometimes the seahorse cannot dislodge them. It is usually advisable to stick with bare bottom or fine grain sand for a seahorse tank.
Not sure if this is the tank you're talking about.
 

rykna

Active Member
No problem

The sea horse tank will definantly stay LS. I am just happy to know that in the future I can use the crushed coral (with considering tank occupants).....it's so pretty.

Thanks,
Rykna
 
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