Question for shark fans

stitch

stitch

New Member
I'm not posting this to ruffle feathers.
I am a huge shark lover. I feel that next to humans they are the most magnificent creatures on the planet. I feel that alot of questions that we don't know the answer to lies in shark research, i.e cancer prevention.
With that said, I really am against sharks being kept as pets in private aquariums. I'm not crazy about them being in public aquariums, but I do recognize the tremendous educational value it presents. We have a great national aquarium here in Baltimore, with a large shark reef, and it is facinating. It is geared towards education and preservation. I can't say the same about other shark exhibits, like the one at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. They seem to be more into the attraction of sharks and not the education.
I feel that many people keep sharks in tanks as more of a conversation piece. I don't doubt that you love the animal, but it is sort of an attention gettr. I feel this is the same reason many people keep snakes or Pirranah. They are percieved as vicious, even if they aren't, and they certainly draw more attention than a gerbil or a clown fish.
I saw pics on this site of a 10,000 gallon set up, which i feel is great, and since it is in a public place it probably will educate many people about these amazing fish. I just can't see keeping one of these animals in a 300 gallon tank, even if it is eight feet long. As most of you know, sharks lack swim bladders, they also lack decent "brakes". I'm sure that even in an 8' tank they still frequently slam their noses into the side.
I am in no way an animal rights freak, but I am curious as to why those of you that keep sharks choose to do so. Again I am not berating you. It is legal to keep these animals, and like I said I'm sure most of you do love these fish as much as i do. I just hope that many of you are not keeping them because it is a "vicious" fish and a great conversation piece when friends come over to see the tank.
 
mattiej

mattiej

Member
I agree with your accessment that sharks are wonderful animals and derserve to be protected and studied. However there is nothing wrong with keeping them in captivity, as long as their requirements are definitely met. Allow me to diverge, is keeping marine fish morally right? This is a question that hobbyists have struggled with for years. Anytime an animal is removed from its natural environment to be put on display it immediately becomes the responsibility of the keeper to provide that animal with the conditions that most nearly dupicate its natural environment. Therefore any endeavor that involves live animals is a compromise between what is required by the animal and what can be maintained by the keeper. The dedicated hobbyist will succeed.
As to sharks in particular, yes there are many who feel that having a shark in their home would be a great conversation piece but there are many of us that use the opportunity to educate ourselves as well as others about these animals. My shark pool regularly sees hundreds of high school students from the local schools. This provides a means by which many who may never get the opportunity to see these animalas in the wild, to observe and marvel at them. I, personally, have spent many years in the marine hobby (25 to be exact), have a degree in marine biology, and have worked at a public aquarium. Of course not all people have this experience, however, they do have access to unlimited amounts of information and many willingly study prior to purchasing any animal.
I am not attacking your point of view, you are of course welcome to express it here. I am just attempting to show that not all who keep sharks are in it just for the thrill. We are dedicated scientists, hobbyists, and care-takers. We have taken the time and money neccessary to give these beauties a home. We feel the loss when an inexperienced keeper attempts these animals and we try not to condemn only to help with advice and comments. We are not ones to feel we are better than any other keepers, only that we have spent the time to know what the animal needs. In short we care as much about these animals and where they come from as those who do notagree with keeping animals at all.
If you feel I haven't satisfactorially answer your concerns or would like to discuss this further, please feel free to contact me and I will be more than willing to go into further discussions. Thank you.
hallmj@att.net
 
D

daniel411

Guest
I fail to see any view that its unethical to keep a creature such as a shark in an aquarium. As long as it is a suitable habitat where its needs are well met, and the owner is a responsible and ethical in caring for it.
 
tony detroit

tony detroit

Active Member
I'm just going to say this.
It is not ''right'' keeping any fish in any aquarium.
Of course it probably isn't right keeping cows, chickens, pigs, turkeys for breeding strictly to be slaughtered so that we can eat them either. I will not justify what I do as right by any means, but it is something I enjoy watching one of nature's most beautiful creatures.
I do feel bad time to time but then I think of people going fishing and killing the same fish that I am keeping and suddenly I don't feel so bad. I won't justify what I do as right, but it is certainly something I enjoy and I care greatly about meeting the sharks needs that I keep.
I also have plans for a much bigger tank in the works. It may be a year, but it WILL happen.
 
stitch

stitch

New Member
Mattie, an 18000 gallon pool is an incredible set-up, and you are obviously using it for a great purpose. You, yourself may be one of those conducting the research on these animals that I consider invaluable.
One of the things that really set me off on this topic was another thread on here that posted a website for a company called sharks for sale.com. I checked out their site and I was appalled, as were alot of the people on this board. They are telling people that they can keep a nurse shark in a 125 gallon tank, and their are probably some people out there following their advice. They had many sharks listed as "easy" as far as care. I'm learning that a damsel fish isn't even neccessarilly "easy" to keep.
The sad thing is that many people buy these animals, and they inevitably outgrow their tank. Not everyone can afford to do the upgrades and I question what happens to those fish. Public aquariums rarely take them anymore. I'd venture that many people just take them to the nearest body of water and let them go, regardless of whether or not that species even exists in that area. To me that's just as bad as fisherman hacking of their fins to make soup and dumping them back into the ocean.
 
mattiej

mattiej

Member
Stitch, I agree full heartedly. There are far too many people who don't have the basic knowledge, let alone the experience to attempt some shark types. One thing though is that everyone starts as a novice at some point. I highly reccomend that any one interested in sharks study, study, and study some more even before considering a shark as a display animal. These animals demand very large systems and very experienced keepers.
Having come from a public aquarium, I can assure all that most will NOT accept animals from private individuals. There are concerns about the health of the animals, potential diseases(parasites), inappropiateness of the animals (ie Pacific fish in an Atlantic based aquarium), and so furth. I advocate that any keper have the final system up and running long before any shark is bought. Yes I agree many have good intentions of up-grading only to find themselves unable to do such. Stability is the key to longetivity of the animals.
As to stores and sites that only cater to the almighty dollar, best to not patronize them. I understand that there are good, solid companies out there that care and these should be supported to the fullest. But to those that are only out to make a buck-beware you WILL be gone soon!
Stitch-I am glad to see someone show your concern and passion about the marine environment. Good honest debate is what makes this message board so popular. Please continue to keep us honest and enjoy what God has put here.
 
tony detroit

tony detroit

Active Member
Stitch-
I was at a store mid summer and they had nurse sharks one for 50 or two for 90 dollars. I saw the Sharks and Rays book behind the counter so I KNOW they knew what they were doing. The sad part is that they're really not making any decent money. Shipping on those nurse sharks had to been 20 a piece if they were properly shipped. I can't believe they were giving them away. They totally screwed over those nurse sharks and made a whole ten bucks out of the deal. The one guy that bought one put it in a 55gal and then said "don't worry in a couple weeks it is going in my new 125" I told the guy not to get it but he must of thought I was BS'ing him or something. I think if they charged 500 or more for them people would think twice about what they're getting themselves into. It is rumored the owner has some really exotic stuff in the backroom. Numerous people have told me of a 8' saltwater crocodile in the back.
There was a nurse shark in a 400gal tank at a local bar/pool hall Fifth Avenue Ball Room in Novi. It could barely turn around. It was as big around as my thigh. It was probably at least 5-6ft long. It just sat there in a empty tank, couldn't even do nothing. It was on the news and everything. I think they finally got somebody to take it. I wish I could find a picture of it and post it. It was truly sad.
The store Ocean Life in Clawson before they went out of business had a 300gal with a Lemon shark in it that was three feet or more. It would kick it's tail once and go crashing straight into the glass on the other side of the tank. It's nose was all rubbed raw and chunks of skin were flying off and it was all pink and infected. Truly sad. Many days go by that I am ashamed of keeping the sharks I do but then I ask my self if I didn't take it, where would it have gone.
There was a guy on wetwebmedia.com that had a horn, bamboo, and a leopard in a 55gal no joke. If you do a search you can find it.
 
stitch

stitch

New Member
This brings up an interesting debate. There has been a recent study that shows that fish do feel pain. It has caused quite a stir in the realms of the catch and release sport fishing hobby. I grew up on the Chesapeake Bay so i am not against fishing for certain species. Shark not being one of them. Fish are part of each others food chain, and also a part of ours.
My question is, if we know fish feel pain then is it possible that they feel the kindness that is shown to them by marine aquarists? It is very obvious that sea mammals feel this affection. I wonder if fish do.
 
stitch

stitch

New Member
Good point Tony about the costs of the sharks. If they were 500 dollars people would realize what a serious undertaking it is. When you think about it there are certain Triggers and puffers that cost hundreds of dollars. They are ussually only bought by people who are certain they can provide them with a good home. From a breeding standpoint there is alot less natural work to bring a trigger into this world than a shark.
That nurse in the pool hall probably cost it's original owner 20-50 bucks. Once it outgrew his small tank he probably gave it to the bar. They didn't know what they were getting into and now it is costing an organization thousands of dollars to try to save the shark.
 
tony detroit

tony detroit

Active Member
It's a $hitty deal all around the board for the sharks.
I still love my girls. They are so relaxing to watch at the end of the day.
Unfortunately for the sharks many people impulse buy because they look cool. I was one too. I bought my bamboo and put him in a 180 with way more live rock than shouldda been in there.
 
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