Question Re: death

V

vince-1961

Guest
I'm getting a bit frustrated as a lot of my corals die. It generally takes a few months. Water parameters always test out as zero for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphates and calcium, magnesium, Alk, pH, and salinity all within proper ranges. T5 lights (approx 1,000 watts on a 72 x 24 x 36 225g tank) run on a timer about 8 hours per day with the actinics 2 hours b4 and after main lights. 10% water changes weekly. For turnover, I got a main sump pump @ 1,000 gph, two koralia 4s at 1,000 gph each and a closed loop which was running at 600 gph, but which I just increased to 2,200 gph. I have never tested for strontium. Do run a CA reactor.
I hadn't been adding phytoplankton, although I've just recently started doing so.
What survives: frogspawns, ricordeas, mushrooms and a gorgonia.
What has died: goniopora, numerous zooanthids (large and small colonies) , xenia, bubble coral (is dying), pom pom, other gorgonia, hard corals with many branches (the name of which I have forgotten, but was healthy and alive when placed in tank) and several sponges.
Tank is about a year old. What gives?
 
truperc

truperc

Member
What are the actual numbers on your parameters? What is your temp?
Where are you placing the corals in relation to the light?
How did you acquire the failing corals?
What was your acclimation procedure?
Can you post a pic of your tank?
 
V

vince-1961

Guest
These answers are from memory. I have the actual test results written down, but I'm not at home as I write this response. I tested evertything I could test for recently as follows:
Ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate = 0
Temp. = constant 81
Salinity: 35 ppm (or same line on refractometer = 1.025????)
Alk = normal range (2.0 is the number that comes to mind ????)
pH = 8.1
CA = 500
Mg: acceptably balanced against the calcium - can't recall the range of highs/lows at the moment.
Phosphate: = 0 (but that may be artifically low as I am on the tail end of a cyanobacter outbreak.)
The corals were placed high and low in relation to surface of water.
Acquired failed corals via mail order and by hand selection from 3 different stores.
I do not recall what acclimation procedures I used. If any, it would have been either a drip or just sit bag in tank for temperature acclimation.
 
truperc

truperc

Member
I would check your alk number again.
if you are using meq it should be between 3 and 4 typically. Closer to 4 if your calcium is that high.
Some of your corals may have suffered if they were not light acclimated.
Cyano or algae blooms may have impacted some of your corals.
You may want to check your test kit against another brand and make sure it is accurate.
I would also suggest you draw the test water from different areas of your tank then you typically have.
An example would be to pull the test water from deeper in the tank if you always pulled it from close to the surface.
I have seen a significant difference in some of my tests when I pulled the water from deep in the tank versus the surface.
Just some of my thoughts.
 
J

jetskiking

Guest
Alright, here are some things to check. Double check all the readings you are getting from testing with another kit. Also check for copper. Things like copper can leach from liverock that was in a medicated tank previuosly. Also inpect the corals as they are dieing for possible parasitic flatworms or something. Coral preditors can be hard to see sometimes because a lot of them become the same color as what they are eating such as zoa nudi's and flatworms.
 
truperc

truperc

Member
I would also suggest you always drip acclimate. Some corals may do just fine with the float, but better to be safe and use drip so you do not shock the coral.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Zoos are so hardy... you may have a zoa eater in the tank...and you said you never fed phytoplankton...some corals may have starved. Other corals may have died from chemical warfare...bubble coral is really aggressive. So some corals may have been stung to death by other corals.
When the water is perfect, it means the reason is else ware. I don’t think it is any 1 thing...it is a combination....The strongest have survived, so that is what remains.
 
V

vince-1961

Guest
It occurs to me that you folks need more information to help me. So I went and collected the threads that I had on each coral as it was dying...with pictures, stats, etc....
re: sponge and coralline death from January '09:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/346824/sponges-coraline
Thread on a sick goniopoara from March '09. It's died.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/354142/whats-wrong-with-this-goniopora
A thread on the goniopora gone off on other subjects from March and April '09
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/354146/sick-goniopora
A blue ricordea that would not attach and died:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/338997/quick-advice-needed-blue-ricordia
a few photos from the past of things that are now dead (excluding the frogpawn)
Attachment 231389
Attachment 231390
Attachment 231391
Attachment 231392



 
V

vince-1961

Guest
pics of more goners....
Attachment 231393
Attachment 231394
Attachment 231395
Attachment 231396
EDIT:
When I get home today (I got to go to work now), I'll take some current pics.
Currently surviving fish are all "reef safe": yellow tang, lawnmower blenny, mandarin goby, 2 clowns, blue hippo tang (Dori), fire something goby (Rocket), aw gee. I've gotten so used to calling them by given names, that I can't remember what they are anymore, specifically, "Frank", a purple something or other, 3 pajamas, 4 green chromis, ........



 
truperc

truperc

Member
Either you are reporting your alkalinity improperly in this and other threads, or you have a significant problem.
You are reporting dkh around 2-3 when it should be 8-12.
If you are using meq as your unit of measure then you should be closer to 4 with a calcium at 500.
Zoos are subject to problems when cyano is around.
Were your zoos not opening?
 
V

vince-1961

Guest
My memory of the number for Alk was correct. It's a Red Sea test kit and the range of numbers are Low 0 to 1.6, normal 1.7 to 2.8 and high 2.9 to 3.6, which the card describes as "milli equivalents per liter." I just re-tested and it's still on the low-ish side of the normal range....2.0. In other words, no change.
My memory of the number for calcium was a wee bit off. testing this morning showed it a bit under 500 ....475. Magnesium test this morning showed 1470.
Yes the zoos were opening per the old photos.
current FTS of center of tank. Left Frogspawn had fallen off the top rock. I put it back after taking this photo.
Attachment 231446
BUBBLE CORAL BARELY HANGING ON...ALMOST DEAD. I sure wish I could save this one. I have no clue what to do.
Attachment 231447
Right side of tank showing my D.I.Y. rock and "satan's head" formation.
Attachment 231448
left side of tank ... graveyard for all the dead hard corals.
Attachment 231449
EDIT: add a flame angel and sailfin tang to the list of fish. I have never seen anything eating any of my dead corals and zoos, other than blue and red legged hermits. Never seen any worms in my tank, ever. Wierd thing is that many fish and my giant hermit crab have, over time, just simply disappeared. I never find a carcass on the floor from jumping and never see any corpses or skeletons in the tank. Poof...just gone.



 
V

vince-1961

Guest
I put the calcium reactor on there last year to help with the hard corals, all of which have since died, and the coralline, which, as you can see, has taken off and is becoming a P.I.T.A. on the glass. Seems to me like there is enough calcium in my salt mix since those hard corals are now dead. I think I will shut it down. Thanks for the suggestion.
Do you think the low alkalinity might have caused, or contributed to cause, so much coral death, especially since I had a lot of calcium precitpitating on walls, rocks, everywhere about the same time as the deaths? (not so much anymore, thankfully)
 
truperc

truperc

Member
Originally Posted by vince-1961
http:///forum/post/3133220
Do you think the low alkalinity might have caused, or contributed to cause, so much coral death, especially since I had a lot of calcium precitpitating on walls, rocks, everywhere about the same time as the deaths? (not so much anymore, thankfully)
I believe it was at a minimum a contributor.
Once you balance your alk/calcium through some water changes, and then see the results over the long term with your corals, you will probably get a better sense of how much this contributed.
 
V

vince-1961

Guest
I disconnected the CA reactor last night. This morning it dawned on me to test the freshly mixed saltwater (30 gallons for water changes) for alkalinity. It tested at 2.8, maybe 3.0. Put a teaspoon of baking soda in it?
 
truperc

truperc

Member
You may want to add the baking soda in the short term.
You may also want to test the new saltwater's calcium level.
The suggestion of meq/l at 4 was because your Ca was at 500.
Once you perform water changes, I would expect the Ca will come down and will then be in line with a meq/l of 2.8-3.
At that time adding baking soda would not be necessary.
Of course, the testing will tell you what types of corrections will need to be made.
Balance is the key.
 
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