Question...

phixer

Active Member
Originally Posted by Dogstar
Why ?
I have already said that Im not challenging whether the policy is a good one or a bad one....Is it because you feel that one's military service or lack of, somehow has something to do with their right in voiceing the truth or not ? No. I have not served in a combat unit in the military....so, how does that change the truth....
Now, try to understand. I am now defending '' my intergity ''. You have IMO, basically said that something I have said is not true...If you would piont that out, then I will look at it again....and if that was not your intent then I apologize.
Even the law it's self ( U.S.C. Title 10,. 654 ) from Congress goes on and on explaining why they are makeing the rule before even getting to it....same examples that you may piont out....and I will even state that the Constitution even allows the military to limit and restrict the rights of military personel as they see necessary and Congress agrees. I even agree to a point that the policy may be needed. But I as you are trying to point out, I dont truely feel qualified to know. I can understand your's and Jovial's piont as to the possibilities. Im not saying that I agree, but thats not the piont is it ?
My piont is that it either does or does not discriminate against homosexual's sexual oriantations regaurdless of the reasoning. And that this was the SF school boards feelings as to the ROTC and how this got us to here. Now you may have a different understanding of what discrimination is than what they or I do...IDK. If so, then theres nothing more to discuss.
You may answer my earlier questions or not. Either way, I will let you have the last word as far as the discussion with me regaurding this policy....if you choose to.
Unless some how it becomes a religious reasoning with the policy as in keeping with the topic of the thread.....or becomes a new thread.

Oh , now your saying that the policy either does or does not discriminate, earlier you specifically said it was discriminatory.
Please continue.
 

jovial

Member
Dogstar, having read your posts for a long time, they all seem to have one thing in common. A lack of foundation, they seem to sway with the wind and subtly change when challenged, most of your statements can easily be disproved upon closer examination, such as this one has. Sorry you are unable to comprehend this concept and get over it, sneaking in false statements like the discrimination thing is a cheesy way to compensate for being proven wrong.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jovial
Dogstar, most of your statements can easily be disproved upon closer examination, such as this one has.
What statement are you refering to.....and what exactly has been said that prooves me wrong ??
 

schneidts

Active Member
Yes, what was he proven wrong about? Phixer, I always enjoy reading your posts, and often agree with what you have to say...but, you edit your posts more than anyone I've ever seen.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Originally Posted by Phixer
Oh , now your saying that the policy either does or does not discriminate, earlier you specifically said it was discriminatory.
Please continue.
No, Thats been the question......to you and anyone else. I say it does. There may be good reasons for them to do so, but it still does not change the fact that it is discrimination.
I have not said if it is right or wrong for them to do so.....That has not been the question.
 

phixer

Active Member
Originally Posted by Dogstar
No, Thats been the question......to you and anyone else. I say it does. There may be good reasons for them to do so, but it still does not change the fact that it is discrimination.
I have not said if it is right or wrong for them to do so.....That has not been the question.
Are you saying some cases of discrimination are right and others are wrong?
I believe its still a matter of qualification, certain traits qualify someone, while others disqualify them. Those who are disqualified are not necessarily discriminated against. For example:
Many years ago, there was something called a field commission, college degrees were not required to pilot an aircraft or command, today they are. Except for some Warrant Officer Helo Pilots in the Army. Is this discrimination against those without the degree or a matter of qualification?
This made the news a few weeks ago. Several men of Arab decent were escorted off of a commercial air liner because they were making other passengers uncomfortable by praying out loud, is this also discrimination or the airlines attempt to maintain good order.
 

phixer

Active Member
Originally Posted by schneidts
Yes, what was he proven wrong about? Phixer, I always enjoy reading your posts, and often agree with what you have to say...but, you edit your posts more than anyone I've ever seen.
Sorry for the excessive use of the edit button, I used to write papers this way , trying to get the thought out first before I lose it. I'll often go back and edit it if I forget to add something or think it sounds better with some deletions.
 

ruaround

Active Member
airlines can do what ever the heck they want... if they want someone to have a degree to fly then so be it... if they want to maintain order and descriminate against some one then so be it...
i was on a plane a few weeks ago and they threw off a guy that was obviously intoxicated...
companies have the right to say: NO SHOES NO SHIRT NO SERVICE... the next time you fly look at the fine print... they do reserve the right to refuse service to anyone...
the points you made dont really have anything to do with the 1st ammendment... just like this message board... its privately owned...
 

phixer

Active Member
Very true, many rules are there to keep the peace. I dont think this means they are discriminatory. At least they dont fit the definition.
The definition of the word discrimination - unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discrimination
Post #61
"The SF school district has a equal rights policy and the military does not....so they claimed an conflict with useing tax money from the school district that was about 1 million of the 1.5 used each year to run the program....not sure why your bringing up charities in relation to that...."
Every branch of the military has an equal rights policy.
Post# 86
"There may be good reasons for them to do so, but it still does not change the fact that it is discrimination."
If discrimination is the unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice how can this be good? To imply that there may be a good reason to discriminate kind of removes any neutrality.
 

dogstar

Active Member
I agree with the definition....the key word is '' unfair '', thats an individuals perspective.
Your right, I have said there may be good reasons. I guess we can use the word '' fair reasons '' still, I dont know. But there are those that feel that the reasons are not '' fair '' and that does make it discrimination....
I sort of agree with the '' official reasons '' given in 10 USC 654, and I know that there could be situations that could accure, I dont think I would fault the homosexual for being the cause though...that would be more deep rooted issues that still exsist in our society, and most likely always will.
I beleive its more because of the fear of what the prejudice members would do. And thats why I say it may be good to have the policy but still wrong.
The problem IMO, lies with some hetrosexuals and not the homosexuals. I understand if others dont understand this. I feel that nonpredjudice hetrosexuals would have no problems serveing along with homosexuals. But I have never served, so what do I know, right?
There was a time when we would not allow different races to serve together and now they do...and now men and women serve together as well....I know there are some that still do not agree with allowing even those situations....The military had their '' fair '' reasons then, that to them would not make it discrimination either. That is why the debate is on going in this country.....I dont think we will solve it here though.
 

phixer

Active Member
Concur, and respect your opinion too much to let this degrade into something uninformative, as usual thanks for keeping me on my toes Dog.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Originally Posted by Dogstar
What statement are you refering to.....and what exactly has been said that prooves me wrong ??
Jovial, Before you accuse me of dodgeing questions.........I wish to remind you that I am still waiting for a reply to this one....
 

dogstar

Active Member
I know the thread was locked befor I could have a chance to defend myself against your comments to me......( BTW, I did not appreciate the lock )
I stated to Phixer about why I would not answer him there and I did answer in the proper thread as I said I would...........
Soooo, until next time I guess....
 

jovial

Member
Originally Posted by Mr. Guitar
Why can't we just all get along? Seriously guys.
I agree, I will take the high road on this one. Dogstar, your right, Im wrong, your good, Im bad, your smart, Im stupid
some things simply arent worth the energy.
 
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