Quick newbie first post question

scraggles

New Member
I'll have dozens more questions to come.
I purchased a 55 gallon tank and at the moment that was all that I could afford. My girlfriend and I were torn between freshwater(for ease) and saltwater(for beauty). From what I'm reading, I personally don't think I should put a large ornament in the tank, because rock/corals that I should put in with my nemo's and dory's(seriously!) when I get them. I've also noticed that the tanks I see online are almost never with ornaments. Not to mention, the one we're looking at comes in 2 parts, and is about 120$ for both parts.
Should I skip the large ornament?
Also, if anyone is bored, what should I get? I work at a local petsmart, so I can get a discount, and they pricematch any non-sale price, so that will be primarily where I get everything.
The dimensions of the tank are 30"wide/25"tall/18"deep. I think it's beautiful and I can't wait to put some clownfish in there!!! I'm all giddy like a little schoolgirl over this thing! I got the tank and stand combined for 183$, so I couldn't pass it up.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/...ab7421.jpg?v=0
 

fau8

Member
In my opinion orniments are out. As a tank ages alge will cover it, and you will be left with a maitainance issue by forever scrubbing it clean. Salt water is a natural look and orniments don't cut it.
 

valeram

Member
Welcome. I am also new to SWA but a long time FWA. From what I read and understand, SWA needs more time, effort and money to maintain. Most of the things they put in the SWA is not just ornaments put it is part of the biological cycle like live rocks. For me, instead of spending money in buying those artificial ornaments, I will just buy live rocks or similar things that are beneficial to the tank. Enjoy,
 

saltn00b

Active Member
agreeing about the onraments.
also forget about "dory". Blue hippo tangs do not belong in a 55g tall tank.
also take a look around your petsmart, look at the fish and the tanks there. if they are sickly, dieing or dead, (like most petsmarts / *****'s) dont bother with livestock from there, you are just throwing your money out. some occasionally have ok stuff i have heard.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
I'm also not sure how well ornaments will hold up in SW. They may very well leech chemicals into your tank.
The initial set up and cost of a SW tank is both higher and more difficult than a FW, but routine maintenance can be easier. The ocean is full of beneficial creatures that help clean a SW tank for you. Properly setting up and stocking a tank can go a long way in making SW maintenance fairly easy.
 

scraggles

New Member
alright. I pretty much thought the same thing when it comes to stuff growing on the ornament.
Where I last worked, we had a smaller tank than the one I have now, and there was a hippo tang in it that the aquarium company put in there. How long does it take for it to grow from the size its' sold at on here(1-2inches). Would it be ok to get one now, and sell or give to a local store when he gets to big?
Finally, at the petsmart I work at we don't have any saltwater fish, so buying from there isn't an option. I also don't know if any of the other petsmarts have saltwater in the area.
 

saltn00b

Active Member
common noobie question, or plan to get a fish that grows large as a juvenile and keep it until it gets too big.
there are a few things wrong with this train of thought.
A) you should add fish to the aquarium based on their adult size.
B) can you physically fit a juvenile in there? yes. should you? no. these fish are cruisers. they dont sit on one rock in nature, they cruise the whole reef grazing. so for tangs it is generally recommended to have 6' of horizontal swimming room. (125g + )
C) unless you have a definite back up plan, it is not always so easy to take out a fish, and then move it to someplace that it is wanted. fish stores may not take it, or if they do, give you pennies on the dollar for it, you cant always find a hobbyist or whatever that wants it or has room for it, etc.
D) releasing it into the wild is NOT an option.
E) even a small juvenile tang can get stressed out in a cramped, poor environment. when a tang that carries ick gets stressed, you are guaranteed your whole tank has ick and you may lose all of your fish. which brings up the point of quarantining and hypo. have you studied these concepts?
thats all i can think of off the top of my head, but i am sure there are more reasons.
 

scraggles

New Member
Alright, so I guess thats out of the question. I know for a fact that I want some false percula clownfish and anemone for the little dudes to hang with. Building off of that, what kind of options do I have? I really like bright and colorful, hence the blue hippo tang
 

scraggles

New Member
Also, is there somewhere online that has details about these fish? I've googled about every type of fish, and no webpage seems to have it all. I can't find details about lifespan, max size or any of that jazz without looking up 3-4 webpages on each fish.
 

vivioo7

Member
look at the 101 tips for new hobbyists thread and read that, I think you should go freshwater personally because if you can barely afford a 55 and stand you wont be able to support an anemone and will probably lose intrest
 

valeram

Member
Originally Posted by vivioo7
http:///forum/post/2754423
look at the 101 tips for new hobbyists thread and read that, I think you should go freshwater personally because if you can barely afford a 55 and stand you wont be able to support an anemone and will probably lose intrest
+1 That is the truth and nothing but the truth. As mentioned in that 101 tips, SWA is an expensive hobby. I've been in FWA for a long long time and I don't recall this much expenses just setting up my first SWA.
 

saltn00b

Active Member
anenomes should be in 6 month + established tanks and will need the same lights you need for corals. T-5s would be ok, that is as long as they are individually reflected.
 

scraggles

New Member
At the time, I could barely afford the tank/stand because I just put $33,000 on a new Honda Accord, cash.
Cost isn't an issue now.
 

oceansidefish

Active Member
You paid WAAAYYYY too much for that car at $33k. You should not have had to drop more than 27, and thats for the EX-L V6 with leather fully loaded
 

scraggles

New Member
that was with taxes a custom paint job, rims, tint and a few other accessories. That's besides the point. This thread isn't about that
 
V

vinnyraptor

Guest
i agree and would just like to add to this post. have you considered filtration, lighting, etc. is it a reef, live rock, or fish only tank? the reef will require expensive lighting and perfect water quality and movement to suceed. expensive. the live rock tank is a step down, and the fish only easier but its just fish. most likely if its petsmart your hood/light is usless for a reef. it's gonna be 300 minimum for the proper lights for a reef. and minimum another 350 for filtration.
my suggestion is a live rock tank. you can get away with the hood that is included but will have to change the bulbs. 18k power glow, and a 10k coral life will get you by. ( one of each or 2 of each depending on hood ) 40$ to 60$. a good submersable heater 25$. some type of mechanical filtration - an emporer 400 dble bio wheel or a canister filter 55$ to 90$. and heres where you have to spend. get a GOOD protien skimmer 125$ + and atleast one good powerhead 35$+
make sure you get a deep sand bed. 3 inches or more. and seed with a few pounds of live sand ontop. your looking at atleast 75 lb.s of sand or 75$ dont skimp on the sand its VERY important. biological filtration is MORE important than mechanical. it starts in the sand bed.
live rock - two ways to do it. buy some dry rock/base rock and seed it with a few pieces of good live rock. and wait. or buy lots of good live rock. it aint cheap. research it its your choice. even if you go with a fish only tank the only thing you can subtract off of the list is the light bulbs and the live rock. everything else is bare minimum mandatory.
LIVESTOCK
for your 55 gallon reef - cleaner crew (snails, crabs, starfish, etc) 75 lbs of live rock, 3-5 nice corals/anemones. a few small clowns(percula, sebae, ocellaris, etc) or 1 larger species (maroon, tomatoe, etc.) 1 gramma or psuedochromis. almost any blennie or goby. and as for a "show" fish a dwarf angel or a butterly. ( monitor all dwarf's with certain corals and butterflys with sponges) a flame angel or coral beauty are my preference among dwarf's. and there are many butterfly's to choose from. the beauty of these tanks are not the fish but the entire habitat. high maintainance, expensive, but well worth it IMO.
55 gallon LR tank - 50 lb.s of live rock. cleaner crew ( although not as large as required by a true reef) clowns as above or chromis. large shrimp/large crab (coral banded shrimp or arrow crab). although not recommended you could have a tang in this tank. 1 TANG and a small one. and heres why. unlike a reef tank, if needed you can move stuff around. so if he eventually gets too big you can easily and safely remove him. in a reef you cannot. under 3 inches and only yellow, purple, scopas, sailfin and the like. no BIG tangs, no hippos, achilles, unicorn's etc... no powders! grammas, and psuedos are good here too. as well as goby's and blennies. "show fish" should be 1 juvi tang and ONLY the ones i mentioned. or possibly a dwarf angel and butterfly. be very careful of overstocking! 10 to 15 inches of total fish body length is a good indicator for your tank. a good skimmer, a deep sand bed, an adequate cleaner crew, and your diligence will take care of the rest.
Fish only - the question here is carnivore or community? a dwarf lion or a small grouper for a carnivore. and the above mentioned fish for a community. you can also add wrasses to a community and triggers to a carnviore. this tank alllows a few more fish if your diligent on water changes. carnivores require meaty and sometimes live foods and can foul up a 55 gallon quickly. although i have seen a 55 gallon with 2 lions and it looks awesome. any community tank will require places for the fishes to hide. it can be LR, pvc, ornaments, etc. so even a fish only tank will require something. this is true for carnviore tanks too if you have triggers or groupers. you could max out at 20 inches of fish in this tank if you know what your doing
A) you should add fish to the aquarium based on their adult size.
B) can you physically fit a juvenile in there? yes. should you? no. these fish are cruisers. they dont sit on one rock in nature, they cruise the whole reef grazing. so for tangs it is generally recommended to have 6' of horizontal swimming room. (125g + )
C) unless you have a definite back up plan, it is not always so easy to take out a fish, and then move it to someplace that it is wanted. fish stores may not take it, or if they do, give you pennies on the dollar for it, you cant always find a hobbyist or whatever that wants it or has room for it, etc.
D) releasing it into the wild is NOT an option.
E) even a small juvenile tang can get stressed out in a cramped, poor environment. when a tang that carries ick gets stressed, you are guaranteed your whole tank has ick and you may lose all of your fish. which brings up the point of quarantining and hypo
 

scraggles

New Member
Thank you for the in depth post vinnie. I have decided I'd like to have a reef. I want the full experience and not just half of it.
As for fish, I definitely want false percula clownfish. Probably just 2 of those. I stopped by a local fish store today and fell in love with the copperbanded butterflyfish. They seemed to acknowledge that I was there and even interacted with me as I touched the glass. My girlfriend loved the Fire Shrimp. I haven't thought beyond that for fish. Now question is, where to start.
I know fish are a few months away, but what exactly do I need to get the water started?
I see boatloads of chemicals on the shelf at the store, I wouldn't think that I need to toss them all in but I may be wrong. Do I start from a rock reef, and purchase the corals later on, or do those start up at the same time. I haven't ever had a saltwater tank, but I have had a freshwater for years.
I'm sure you don't just load it up with gallons and gallons of tap water and hope it sorts itself out.
I feel like a complete idiot when it comes to saltwater, sorry. I really appreciate your patience.
 

mochabob

Member
Buy your salt and use RO water mixup and put in tank do not need any lights while water is cycling. The water needs to cycle so put in a raw shrimp to start the cycle. Need to buy test kits. Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia and a refractor to test the salt level. NO CORALS OR FISH until cycle is finished about 4 to 6 weeks. Also add sand and live rock if rock is added later it might start another cycle. Do not add any chemicals just let the water cycle. Test water every few days Ammonia, Nirtates, and Nitrites have to be a zero before any fish are added. Corals are later.
Most butterfly fish are not reef safe.
 
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