Quick newbie first post question

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vinnyraptor

Guest
your also gonna need to get your filtration. a wet/dry and a good skimmer. i would recommend you get your live rock now also. so mix your salt with RO water. (RO is reverse osmosis) alot of stores will sell it to you by the gallon. you dont need any of those chemicals yet but you do need a good test kit. fill the tank with salt water add your live rock toss in a raw shrimp and wait about 3 or 4 weeks. you can run your wet/dry but leave your skimmer off. the 3 or 4 weeks of cycling will give you time to research what types of lights are out there. ( t5, metal halide, etc.) and what type of livestock is reef safe, compatable, and will fit your tank. good luck! patience is the key in this hobby.
Originally Posted by Mochabob
http:///forum/post/2755164
Buy your salt and use RO water mixup and put in tank do not need any lights while water is cycling. The water needs to cycle so put in a raw shrimp to start the cycle. Need to buy test kits. Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia and a refractor to test the salt level. NO CORALS OR FISH until cycle is finished about 4 to 6 weeks. Also add sand and live rock if rock is added later it might start another cycle. Do not add any chemicals just let the water cycle. Test water every few days Ammonia, Nirtates, and Nitrites have to be a zero before any fish are added. Corals are later.
Most butterfly fish are not reef safe.
 

scraggles

New Member
Ok, where is the cheapest live rock I can get? I looked online, and the only local store is 8$/lb. which is more than anywhere I found online. How much live sand will I need? I read that you can layer it on top of non-live sand, is that true?
Also, for now, what filtration would you recommend for a tank this size. I looked where I work, and we have one single skimmer(SeaClone 100), when I googled it there were miserable reviews. For a filter, do I just use a top fin or something along those lines? What do you mean by 'raw shrimp'? I'm sorry for all the extremely stupid questions!
 
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vinnyraptor

Guest
get your live rock in bulk online. atleast 50 lb.s of medium sized pieces. 75 + lb.s would be better. buy fine marine sand in 25 lb bags atleast 3. seed with a few lbs of live sand. 2 or 3 lbs if its real live sand. i.e. in a tank at your store. 10 + lb.s if its in a bag with a packet.
remember the rock you get online isnt "cured". you will do that in the tank while you cycle if you follow simple directions. first of all your going to need a wet/dry filtration system. some good ones have a built in skimmer. you must research wet/dry filtration, refugium, etc. if you want a reef its a must! you must research lighting for reefs. these 2 components are going to cost you around 500 bucks easy.
if you have the cash heres what you do in order.
1.buy your wet/dry, skimmer, heater, salt, test kit,wave maker/powerhead, and dry marine sand. you will also need a new 5 gallon bucket. then find a spot where little or no sunlight will hit the tank and is a low traffic area.
2. fill tank with tap water and test for leaks and balance. overnight is good. then drain completely and wipe out with paper towels. order your live rock. atleast 50 lbs of medium sized pieces. 75 to 100 would be ideal.
3. hook up all filtration. hoses, powerheads, heaters, etc. dont plug them in yet! invest in a cheap timer and good power surge strip. a timer is for your lights. they sell at home depot for 10 bucks.
4. a day before your liverock is to arrive. mix salt with RO water and fill tank about 2/3 of the way. if you cant buy reverse osmosis water or dont want to invest in a RO filter for your sink you can use tap water. but expect huge algae blooms for a few months.
5. when the live rock arrives syphon about 3 gallons of your tank water into a brand new dedicated 5 gallon bucket. get a brand new soft tooth brush and submerge rock while gently scrubbing it. place each piece carefully into the tank. no sand yet so be careful. once you get all of the pieces in find 2 -4 base pieces you will build on and set them where you want.
6. rinse dry sand as bag directions indicate in your bucket and carefully scoop into the tank. stabilizing your base pieces. take your time here! build your reef stacking the live rock. create caves, crevasses, nooks, ledges, etc. rinse sand a half a bag or so at a time. once all of the dry sand is in (3 inch min.) and the rock work is to your liking. add the live sand evenly ontop as much as possible.
7. if needed top off tank with fresh saltwater. get your filter working, your heater working and your wavemaker working. but no skimmer!
8. go to the grocery stores seafood dept. and buy 1 large RAW tigershrimp or scampie. Raw meaning uncooked. should cost about 75 cents. rinse it off in your sink and toss in it your tank. shell, tail and all.
9. let it rot! thats how were starting the "cycle" . you can take it out after a week or so but the cylce wont be complete for another 4 weeks. assuming were "curing the rock" after a month i want you to do a 50% water change. syphon out half of the tank water and mix fresh saltwater in your bucket 5 gallons at a time and refill the tank. let it go for another 2 weeks. at 7 weeks i want you to test your water. and no matter good or bad i want you to do a 25% water change. at 10 weeks your tank should be stable.
10. turn on the skimmer and order a cleaner crew to the size of your tank.
11. set up a quaratine tank. a 20 gallon is fine and a 10 will work. a simple glass bottomed tank. with some cut pvc tubes for shelter is fine. a cheap back filter or bubbler is adequate and a heater. once your tanks water tests within parameters you can syphon out 10 to 20 gallons and put it in your quarantine tank. refilling your display tank with new salt water again.
12. cleaner crew arrives and you drip acclimate directly into your display tank.
13. order or buy your clowns and drip acclimate to your quarantine tank. monitor for atleast 15 days. if they are taking food and not showing any signs of disease you can put them in your display tank. a quick drip acclimation from display water to quarantine water of 15 minutes and they shouldnt miss a beat.
14. go from there. take it slow. and have fun!
Originally Posted by scraggles
http:///forum/post/2755388
Ok, where is the cheapest live rock I can get? I looked online, and the only local store is 8$/lb. which is more than anywhere I found online. How much live sand will I need? I read that you can layer it on top of non-live sand, is that true?
Also, for now, what filtration would you recommend for a tank this size. I looked where I work, and we have one single skimmer(SeaClone 100), when I googled it there were miserable reviews. For a filter, do I just use a top fin or something along those lines? What do you mean by 'raw shrimp'? I'm sorry for all the extremely stupid questions!
 

mr_x

Active Member
i disagree. don't buy a wet/dry. it's old school and not necessary.
don't add a raw shrimp to a tank full of uncured live rock either. there's no need. there will be plenty of die-off on the rock itself. i would also run the skimmer during the entire cycle, in order to aerate the water and help keep the hitch hikers alive.
if you siphon out half the tank water, you will expose your cured live rock to air. i don't recommend this since the things that live in the ocean are meant to be submerged in water for their entire lives...and that includes bacteria. the reason we have to cure rock is because we kill alot of stuff off when we expose it to air when we ---- the ocean for it.
you also don't need a deep sand bed. it's a preference. there are pros and cons to having one. i don't have one and my tank does very well. it's a reef. the water is not pristine because i feed my lps regularly, but still it thrives.
for a 55 gallon, 3 to 5 nice corals/anemones? then my 30 breeder that has about 25 corals in it is overloaded?
in a tank with just live rock and fish, you don't need any light. it's preference. 1 bulb fixture, 2 bulb fixture, whatever you like. live rock doesn't need light. neither does fish. they only need light to see to eat. ambient light from the room is enough.
 

scraggles

New Member
What about the rock, I was going to buy some of it dry, since I can get it extremely cheap at petsmart plus a discount and no shipping cost. Then I was going to top it off with 10-15lbs of live rock and let it spread while it cycled just to save some money. I read in a money saving thread on here to do that, but it didn't say how much dry/live rock to go with.
 

scraggles

New Member
I actually found a great deal(or so I think) for 45lbs of live rock online, with shipping, 160$. So, in this case, I guess I'll be going with mainly live rock.
So, on my shopping list is the rock(about 60lbs to start), the sand - online calculators put me at 88lbs for a 4" sandbed.
I need recommendations for the following:
Powerhead
Filter
Skimmer
 

mr_x

Active Member
if you are going with a deep sand bed, 4" is borderline. if you are not, i'd go with about 1"-2" of sand.
powerheads- koralias or modded maxijets. i'd go with maxijets with "sure flo" mods on them. they are smaller and pack the same punch.
filter, live rock and a good protein skimmer are all the filter you need.
skimmer- are you going to have this tank drilled for an overflow or will you use a hang-on overflow to lead to a sump, or will you be needing a hang-on skimmer?
if you are to have a sump, there are many skimmers that will work for you.
if you are to choose a hang-on skimmer, i like the aquamedic turbofloater. i've heard of people having good luck with the octopus hang-on, but i've never tried it.
 
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vince-1961

Guest
You may also want to consider making your own rock. There is a VERY LONG thread in the D.I.Y. section on this. Short version is you mix, you shape your creation, let it harden for a week and put it in freshwater to "cure" for at least a month. Then put it in your tank, provide some "seeds" and wait for it to get lots of growth.
I did it this weekend, using portland cement ($8 for a 94 lb bag), crushed oyster shells ($25 for a 40 lb bag), water and then some sand (which is used as a mold). I made some really cool shapes, custom sized to fit particular parts of my tank. Am hoping they turn out well when I pull them out of the sand next weekend.
 
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vinnyraptor

Guest
you dont think a wet/dry or sump is needed for a reef Mr.X? i have a 95 gallon with a enmporer 400. a lg. hang on skimmer and a magnum 350 canister. i honestly didnt think i could go reef.
wouldn't running the skimmer too early slow the cycle down buy removing ammonia, nitrates, etc.. i was told to keep off during cycle. i agree you must aerate and would recommend running powerheads from day one.
as far as the coral/anemone suggestion of 3 to 5. he's a novice and anemones ca be agressive. you are right about die off starting the cycle. but its never known how much there will be. a raw shrimp guarentee's a good cycle start and it couldn't hurt.
i have to disagree with you about LR not needing light. coraline algae requires light to grow. my friend lost his livestock and had about 60 lbs of nice live rock. he left the lights off but filters on for 6 months. the rock was bleached white. everything was gone. i took it off of his hands and put it in this new tank ( 9 months old ) it is now starting to grow some pinks, purples, and lt. green algae. explain?
 

oceansidefish

Active Member
LR does not need light, the bacteria and most of the hitchhikers you will find could live in complete blackness. Coraline does not dictate whether or not rock is live or not, although it does require light to grow it does not affect the nitrogen cycle in a tank. The coraline will die off but the bacteria and all the things that make the rock "live" are just fine. If it had all died it would have thrown your tank for a loop.
 
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vinnyraptor

Guest
thank you! it has never been explained to me that way. also it was very brittle when i got it. a few large piece's broke when i handled them. i assumed it was inert. but i could "reseed" it. i have had to move things around over the last 9 months and the rock seems "denser" if that makes sense.
i had a 30 gallon LR tank w/ 1 striped damsel a big meanie. i aquired a 95 gal. wave front with back filter and hang on skimmer. i put 3 inches of sand and seeded with 15 lbs of live from established 30 gal. i got the "dead" rock from said buddy and used the 15 lbs from 30 gal. i already had to seed it. i used almost all of the water from 30 gal. and moved the damsel in.
i added rubble rock and more sand in a sleeve to the dble bio wheel filter as well as a phosphate reducer, a sleeve of carbon, and blue fiber media. i let that run with said damsel for 2 months adding a S.S. star, 2 urchins, hermits, ceraths, turbo's, and camel shrimp during.
damsel was traded in for a percula. for another 6 weeks this lil guy was the only fish in the tank. as it stands right now i have a yellow tang. a powder brown tang. a tomato clown. a percula and a sebae. and no they dont fight at all. i also have an algae eating blenny and a mandarin goby. the powder brown is the newest addition about a week ago. the mandarin has been here for 3 months and was sickly and skinny when i got him. he now is fat and healthy. he is fed mostly marine cuisine, but gets any copepods he can find as well as live brine.
i have also managed to keep a saddle anemone alive on regular flourecents of a 24inch 18k bulb and 2 48inch bulbs. a 10k bulb, and a 50/50 atinic. he is bigger and brighter than when i aquired him 4 or 5 months ago. i plan on getting all new t5's around christmas. i just aquired a magnum 350 canister filter and will hook it up any day. in your opinion and any others reading this. after i upgrade lights can i keep and maintain corals? go reef? i have excellent water quality and movement now. what else besides lights would i need?
Originally Posted by Oceansidefish
http:///forum/post/2757547
LR does not need light, the bacteria and most of the hitchhikers you will find could live in complete blackness. Coraline does not dictate whether or not rock is live or not, although it does require light to grow it does not affect the nitrogen cycle in a tank. The coraline will die off but the bacteria and all the things that make the rock "live" are just fine. If it had all died it would have thrown your tank for a loop.
 

mr_x

Active Member
if you have live rock and keep your water clean, you can keep anything (providing you have adequate lighting).
keeping the water clean can be done exclusively with waterchanges.
 

scraggles

New Member
what do you guys do for the RO water? I might pick up a filter so it cuts the costs of getting water down the road.
 

teresaq

Active Member
what I would do and have done is use dry rock for my tanks. Then add live rock to seed it and it becomes live in a very short time. or at least use the dry stuff at the bottom-what will be covered by sand.
I just found florida base rock for under a dollar a lb.
Just google florida base rock.
Its much much cheaper and works just as well
TeresaQ
 

errattiq

Member
I agree with you so far Mr. X, however, I thought most fish available for this hobby should receive at least 4 hours per day of light in order to produce Vitamin D or some equivalent to stay healthy??? Could be the reason that Vinny Raptor's friend lost his livestock.... Loving the V for Vendetta avatar, by far one of my favorite movies.... lol
-Josh
 

spiderwoman

Active Member
Do you know if there is a reef aquarium club near you? You probably get the best deals buying used from other reefers. There seems to always be someone taking down their tank and pretty much the going rate for cured LR is $3/lb. I got an awesome deal on 60lbs of Marshall Island from one of our members who took down his tank.
 
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