R/O v. my homes ion exchange

[nacl+h2o fish]

Everyone!
Maybe I am being a knucklehead.... but I recently upgraded in my FL home to a newer model of a 'whole house' Hague 'WaterMax' brand ion exchange water softener. It also features a separate activated carbon filtration stage.
I tested my homes water w/ the following results....
1. Calcium - zero!
2. Alkalinity - 2.0
3. PH - 7.7 expecting that the 'aragonite' substrate & Red Sea PH buff will improve this number upwards!
My homes system removes chloramines, metals, hardness... etc. and is very appealing to drink and soft for washing and bathing!
Is this acceptable for mixing 'buffered' Red Sea salt?
Thanks

 

[trippkid]

No, it is not removing Nitrate and Phosphate to name a couple. It is only binding the cations in the water, you need something for the anion too. For pure water you will still need to filter through a RO/DI for aquarium use. Your new system should help prolong the life of your RO cartridges and membrane though.
Matt

 

[nacl+h2o fish]

Originally Posted by trippkid
No, it is not removing Nitrate and Phosphate to name a couple. It is only binding the cations in the water, you need something for the anion too. For pure water you will still need to filter through a RO/DI for aquarium use. Your new system should help prolong the life of your RO cartridges and membrane though.
Matt
Wow trippkid... Thanks for the detailed answer!

Please, help me out with the abbreviations... I understand RO is reverse osmosis.. does DI = distilled?
I can test for nitrate and phosphate... right? If my systems activated carbon stage is doing it's job.... those numbers may be acceptable.
Your thoughts?
Thanks Again!

 

[trippkid]

DI is short for de-ionization, which you already have half of the system. The other half is the anion beads, which takes care of the negatively charged ions. I would say no to just testing, their are other compounds in the water that we may not be able to test for. Ro units are designed to remove roughly 90-95% of all impurities, the DI unit cleans up the rest to about 99.98 pure. I would get an RO/DI unit for just aquarium use, put it near the tank, if possible, for water changing and such. I have a well for my water, and I have a softener too. I still buy my water(RO) for my tank, then run through a mixed bed DI to get it good, Zero TDS(total dissolved solids).
My wife is fanatical about the well going dry, so the waste water associated with the RO units is a major turn-off to her. I hope this helps some.

Matt

 

[renogaw]

i'd also worry about the dissolved copper from your water lines as well. down in florida you probably have pex though, but there are connections in your faucets, spigots, etc that are still probably copper or brass. as you starve the water of all those solids, it makes dissolving other solids (such as copper) easier. and if you get copper in your system......

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by trippkid
DI is short for de-ionization, which you already have half of the system. The other half is the anion beads, which takes care of the negatively charged ions. I would say no to just testing, their are other compounds in the water that we may not be able to test for. Ro units are designed to remove roughly 90-95% of all impurities, the DI unit cleans up the rest to about 99.98 pure. I would get an RO/DI unit for just aquarium use, put it near the tank, if possible, for water changing and such. I have a well for my water, and I have a softener too. I still buy my water(RO) for my tank, then run through a mixed bed DI to get it good, Zero TDS(total dissolved solids).
My wife is fanatical about the well going dry, so the waste water associated with the RO units is a major turn-off to her. I hope this helps some.

Matt

trip, if you put the waste water into a sump or into your septic, remind her that the waste water goes right back down to the well

 

[nacl+h2o fish]

Originally Posted by trippkid
DI is short for de-ionization, which you already have half of the system. The other half is the anion beads, which takes care of the negatively charged ions. I would say no to just testing, their are other compounds in the water that we may not be able to test for. Ro units are designed to remove roughly 90-95% of all impurities, the DI unit cleans up the rest to about 99.98 pure. I would get an RO/DI unit for just aquarium use, put it near the tank, if possible, for water changing and such. I have a well for my water, and I have a softener too. I still buy my water(RO) for my tank, then run through a mixed bed DI to get it good, Zero TDS(total dissolved solids).
My wife is fanatical about the well going dry, so the waste water associated with the RO units is a major turn-off to her. I hope this helps some.

Matt
Thanks again trippkid!

So, I assumed

I had a system that removed everything.... and you have educated me, saying "NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND!"
I am not going to share this discussion with my wife! ..... she was the driving force behind purchasing this system! Still has many benefits: chloramine/chlorine free smell, looks and tastes better, removes the tannin(?)/iron contaminants and discoloration, reduces our use of laundry/bathing products significantly!

OK... So I still need to look for H2O that is basically... distilled?
Thanks Again!

 

[nacl+h2o fish]

Originally Posted by renogaw
trip, if you put the waste water into a sump or into your septic, remind her that the waste water goes right back down to the well
Thanks for the response 'renogaw'!
Fortunately (?) I'm on Hollywood, FL city water and I don't have a septic tank or well.... hmmm???!
My home was built in 1972 and is plumbed w/ the classic copper supply lines & lead/solder joints! I have always preferred purchase of brass fixtures!
You awakened me to thinking about these 'heavy metal' contaminants... Thanks!!!

Kinda thinking that my plumbings old enough now to not contribute any significant 'heavy metal'

contamination to my tap water.... Your thoughts?
Thanks Again

 

[trippkid]

Originally Posted by renogaw
trip, if you put the waste water into a sump or into your septic, remind her that the waste water goes right back down to the well
Our septic in not connected to the well, and somewhat downhill(there may be some bleed off, but not much), I think we'd have to use it for the garden or when I put a pond in, in a couple of years, my youngest son is only two. I don't want him falling in. Can't use it for the washing machine either, not a top load model. I've been through it all with her, thanks though for looking out for me. I think I have her now with gas being over $3.00, not very cost effective having to travel for buckets of water in my V8 truck, even the mini-van for that matter, probably about 20mi or so round trip. Wish me luck.

Matt

 

[trippkid]

Originally Posted by NaCl+H2O Fish
I am not going to share this discussion with my wife! ..... she was the driving force behind purchasing this system! Still has many benefits: chloramine/chlorine free smell, looks and tastes better, removes the tannin(?)/iron contaminants and discoloration, reduces our use of laundry/bathing products significantly!

Been there too

. It was funny when the salesman came to give us the pitch, I think I may have intimidated him a little, he even offered me a job. I am happy with our system also. The anion resins need an acid bath to recharge and don't process as much water compared to the cation resins, which get recharged in the sodium/chloride or postassium/chloride(what we use) solution. We don't need ultra-pure water for our use, and the softeners do what they are supposed to. Good luck

.
Matt

 

[nacl+h2o fish]

Trippkid.... I can't believe you mentioned a job offer by the salesman! I had the same experience...
So... What's the bottom line? Do you think I would be safe in using 50% tap and purchasing 50% distilled so as to make sure that any 'bad stuff' is diluted?
I live just a mile from the beach in Hollywood, FL. My LFS offers aged, aerated natural seawater collected several miles off the coast at 50 cents a gallon... maybe a very good option.
Thanks!

 

[trippkid]

I guess they need qualified(?) people to push these things. I would not do the mix thing, you will end up with elevated nutrients at some point and probably continually be battling algae outbreaks to say the least. Distilled water is not the best(usually copper piping is used, so there could possibly some residual dissolved copper in the distillled water). RO/DI, in my opinion, is the only way to go. There is no question on what is going in the tank. I don't live close to the shore so, not familiar with using "real" seawater, I would think though it is probably the best thing to use, and you don't have to buy salt for mixing. The only thing is the water in the tank is still going to evaporate and you still need "good water" for topping off(FRESH WATER ONLY, NO SALT ADDED). I would go with a small RO/DI to make the top-off water and go with the natural stuff, or just do the RO/DI and you'll have to mix up the water for water changing. Good luck pleading your case, or I hope you are good at hiding an extra $200-250 spent at the LFS

.
Matt

 

[renogaw]

i would not use real seawater...
you could introduce ich, pathogens, pee, gasoline from their boat, etc into your tank, along with algae spores, and a whole bunch other stuff. even though it is "aged" how long are they going to store it? what if they have a run on it and someone buys them half out, they will need to replenish it. so how aged is it ever really going to be?

 

[trippkid]

Yeah, I agree renogaw, I didn't even think of the possible bad stuff(too early and 3 small kids tugging at me), my bad. A lot of people do use the real stuff though, without issue. Your choice, just like everything else, NaCl+H2O Fish.

Matt

 

[scotts]

Originally Posted by NaCl+H2O Fish
OK... So I still need to look for H2O that is basically... distilled?
You have been getting some great advice on this thread, and this may be ticky-tack, but for your knowledge. There is a difference between deionized water and distilled water. Deionized water goes through the filtration that Tripkid talked about. Distilled water is water that is boiled and the steam collected and condensed back into water. Think of someone making moonshine in the hills, only instead of moonshine they get water. Deionized water is cleaner water.
HTH
Scott

 

[nacl+h2o fish]

Trippkid, Renogaw, Scotts

Thanks guys for the H2O education!

In the past living inland, I had never kept a marine tank with the option of using Natural Seawater...

I have always used prepared salt mixes.... mainly Instant Ocean. I am setting up my Red Sea Max soon and will need ~ 30 gallons after displacement. The starter kit includes there Red Sea Coral Pro Salt... so that's what prompted this thread on tap H2O... Thanks to you all!

I too am sort of concerned about what parasites, pathogens, or pollutants from terrestrial runoff might be introduced! My LFS tells me it is collected (pumped) off the reef from around 100' depth. It's aged in the dark to kill the plankton, etc., then aerated to sweeten. They have used it for years exclusively in all there livestock & show tanks with no problems ever reported by customers who use it! Hmmmm. OK!
I do understand that the daily ~ 1 liter top offs need to be RO/DI. Bottom line is usually economic, right Trippkid? If I purchase RO/DI and salt mix is that cheaper than 50 cents a gallon for natural to do routine water changes? I will have to put a pencil to it and be convinced of the 'real stuffs' safety!
Ideally purchasing a RO/DI would be great but I am probably going to need a chiller first... come next summer or storm induced power outage!!!! OY!

Thanks Again All!

Kent

 

[trippkid]

Glad to help.

Rock on Scotts

Matt

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by NaCl+H2O Fish
I too am sort of concerned about what parasites, pathogens, or pollutants from terrestrial runoff might be introduced! My LFS tells me it is collected (pumped) off the reef from around 100' depth. It's aged in the dark to kill the plankton, etc., then aerated to sweeten. They have used it for years exclusively in all there livestock & show tanks with no problems ever reported by customers who use it! Hmmmm. OK!
While it is POSSIBLE, i'd still personally feel safer not using it
I do understand that the daily ~ 1 liter top offs need to be RO/DI. Bottom line is usually economic, right Trippkid? If I purchase RO/DI and salt mix is that cheaper than 50 cents a gallon for natural to do routine water changes? I will have to put a pencil to it and be convinced of the 'real stuffs' safety!
You can get the cheapest salt out there, and then buff for calcium and alkalinity. I've seen instant ocean for $25 a 200gal bucket, and magflake/dowflake is insane cheap.
Ideally purchasing a RO/DI would be great but I am probably going to need a chiller first... come next summer or storm induced power outage!!!! OY!
check around, people sell them relatively inexpensively in classified sections and on other sites unmentionable

Thanks Again All!

Kent
read the orange
err, now it's read, orange was too tough to read