Raising calcium levels

[trippclark]

I am trying to get my fish only tank (well, fish + crew) acceptable for other inhabitants. I do not use RO water, but use water filtered and deionized with the Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Tap Water Purifier. pH is at 8.3, amonia, nitrite, and nitrate are at 0 (well, nitrate is actually just below 0.2 on a low range test . . . this is the lowest possible measurement on the SeaTest kit). Calcium, though, is low. When I tested about a week ago it was at 150. I started adding C-balance daily and it is now up to 180. This is still way below where it needs to be, but I expect that this should be raised slowly to prevent pH spikes and other possible problems. Is the C-balance a good choice to raise calcium as suggested by my LFS? If not, what is the recommended method and product(s) to do this? How fast/slow should this be raised? Should I drip Kalk instead or in addition? I really don't see that I have a good place to set up an ongoing drip, which was why the C-balance is appealing.

 

[jagermeister]

How do you replace your evaporated water?
If you have a fresh water reservoir and a float switch you can add pickling lime to the fresh water. This will raise your calcium AND alkalinity which is equaly as important.
Or a calcium reactor?

 

[thomas712]

Now that is really low, but what about alkalinity, we need to talk about the two together and as far as I am concerned we need to disscus magnesium as well.
I would not drip kalk until you can get your alk and cal in line, at this point I would recommend a water change to get things back in line this should safely raise your alk and calcium depending on your salt mix, then keep up with the additions of these two.
What salt mix are you using? Last water change?
Thomas

 

[bang guy]

I second the water change to raise Ca and CO3.

 

[trippclark]

Water changes -- I have done weekly water changes for the past 4 weeks since adding a crew and 2 fish. Each has been 5 gallons; so I have changed 20 +/- gallons in the course of the past month. I am using Instant Ocean.
I have kits to test for pH, Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Calcium, and Phophate; but not for Alkalinity or Magnesium. All of the tests that I do have kits far are excellent, except the low Ca. I guess I need to hit the LFS for a Alk and Mag kit, huh?

 

[bang guy]

ALk kit would be good.
Can you describe how you mix your saltwater?

 

[dacia]

I think that it is recommended that alk and Ca be tested together since they are interrelated. It is difficult to change one without altering the other. I would recommend buying the alk test kit. I'm not sure about the Mg test kit, hopefully Thomas will answer that one cause I'd like to know too.

 

[thomas712]

OK then what are you water changes in salinity?
Look for the test kits on line, look at the dry goods section on this board and see if you can get them cheaper than an LFS.
Thomas

 

[trippclark]

Bang Guy asked: Can you describe how you mix your saltwater?
Up until the past month I just mixed and poured (Instant Ocean) – and had been doing this for 10 years with no identified problems. Browsing on this board lately, I have learned and am now mixing with a powerhead in a clean 5 gallon bucket for 24 – 48 hours. Once ready, water is added to the sump. I daily replace evaporated water with filtered deionized water (using Aquarium Pharmaceutical’s Tap Water Purifier). Again, this has been for the past month. Previously, I topped off perhaps twice weekly with sometimes deionized filtered water and sometimes tap water. I am trying to replace bad habits with good ones!
Thomas asked: OK then what are you water changes in salinity?
I am not sure that I am reading the question right, but if I am, the answer is that I do water changes with water with a specific gravity of 1.020 to 1.023 and usually change 4 – 5 gallons at a time. My current routine is 1 such change per week.
Should I increase water changes until Ca is up??

 

[bang guy]

If it's not too much trouble, after you mix your fresh saltwater could you test it for Ca and ALK and post the numbers.
You are changing water frequently enough to keep your Ca level higher than what your test results are indicating. Perhaps it's a bad test kit. Perhaps it's a bad batch of salt. Perhaps your tank is actually consuming that much calcium and you need to start additives.
We'll figure it out.

 

[beaslbob]

what type of substrait are you using? And are you absolutely sure of your calcium levels. My test kit does not even register that low.

 

[trippclark]

Thanks Guys. I'll test and post numbers as suggested -- also I'll get an Alk test kit. I am going out of town, so it may be as late as Monday before I can get an update (hopefully sooner though).
Tripp

 

[trippclark]

Okay, here are the numbers . . .
The KH (Alkalinity) in the tank is 17
I also ran tests on the water that I am curing to add on my water change tomorrow. That water is showing a 330 on Calcium and a 5 on KH (Alkalinity).
So . . . I am thinking that increase the frequency or amount of water changes so I can get Ca up and KH down, right?? Anything else I should be doing to get this right? What do you think are ideal readings for Ca and KH? Keep in mind that I am now fish only and "crew" but want to transition to reef after I get my water right.

 

[bang guy]

Yep, it was the ALK that was supressing your Calcium.
330 is still pretty low for fresh saltwater. I asked you before but didn't get a detailed answer. It does make a difference how you mix your saltwater. Could you go over step by step how you mix it?
Another thought - Were you using a Buffer or some other type of product to keep your PH high?

 

[trippclark]

My lack of detail on the mixing of water is because I have only recently changed to a more acceptable way and am still working out the system. Until finding this forum about a month ago, I had always just mixed and poured -- no "curing" -- just making sure temp and SG was right. For the past few weeks, I have mixed and circulated with a powerhead for 24-48 hours before adding. I have only used this method for the past 3 or 4 changes of 4 - 5 gallons each. Now, with the current batch, I am trying to follow the steps suggested by Kipass4130 earlier in this thread.
As far as a buffer -- yes, I use Seachem Marine Buffer periodically to keep pH at 8.3. Is this acceptable? This was what was suggested by the LFS.

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by trippclark
yes, I use Seachem Marine Buffer periodically to keep pH at 8.3.
This is probably the source of your problem. When adding a buffer you need to balance the Carbonate in the buffer with the appropriate amount of Calcium.
Seachem uses a lot of Borate in their buffers so it'll be difficult to determine your true Carbonate level.
Water changes should fix this problem.

 

[trippclark]

Jumping back a couple of posts, I'd still be interested in the following . . .
What do you think are ideal readings for Ca and KH? Keep in mind that I am now fish only and "crew" but want to transition to reef after I get my water right.

 

[trippclark]

Slowly levels are improving . . .
Now Ca is at 250 (up from 180) and KH is at 13 (down from 17). This is after about 4 water changes of 4-5 gallons each.

 

[trippclark]

Okay, for the past two weeks I have been doing frequent water changes of between 4 and 12 gallons each on average every other day. All told, I have put well over 50 gallons of new water in the tank (yeah, I know, each time I am also removing lots of new water also). Anyway, KH is now reading at 9 (down from 17 back on Oct 5). My Ca has also increased, but herein is my question. When I refocused on my aquarium back in September and resolved to get it "right" and keep it "right," I purchased a SeaTest Reef Multi-kit. Using this test kit, new Instant Ocean water reads at 330 or so Ca and so does the water presently in my aquarium. This is the same test kit that gave me the 180 reading when I first started this thread on Oct 1 and the 250 that I reported on Oct 8 after 4 water changes. I also have an older (probably 3 years old chemicals) Sera Calcium Test Kit that gives me a reading of 400 - 420. I'd love to believe the Sera kit, but the age of the chemicals causes me skepticism. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the new SeaTest kit, because I would think that new Instant Ocean water would read much higher than 330. Any ideas? Which do I trust? Do I need to buy a third kit!?

 

[bang guy]

Do you have a nearby LFS that will test your water for you? I agree with you that your salt should mix to about 390 - 400ppm.
I have found Salifert to be very accurate.
Do you stir the water vigerously as you slowly add the salt to the water? I was trying to get this information from you a couple weeks ago but you never told me how you mixed your water.