Red serpent star not looking good

[phil1964]

I got him in a clean up crew package from swf.com 2 days ago.
its body is the size of a quarter and the legs are about 6 inches. After acclimating it for 3 hours and building up the courage to touch it I got him in.
I was suprised how firm it was, I thought they were soft.
Tonight its center disk looks like it is falling in.
Is it a gonner? Should I get it out of there or wait?
Also there were 2 brittle stars that are missing in action.
Tank cycled just over a month ago and tests zero for everything including phosphates.

 

[dindi]

well to start off, was the body nice and plump? If is was then all the sudden it colapsed then you need to recheck your water, serpant stars are very easy to keep they have a big problem with low alk and cal levels on the on set. give us your true water parameters then we all may be able to help more

 

[phil1964]

Ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrate 0
phosphate 0
calcium 380
ph 8.2
salinity 1.022
alk the test card shows low medium and high it is medium
he has been moving and has just moved in the last 10 minutes to a place where I can't get to him if I have to!

 

[richard rendos]

I got two of these about 2 weeks ago from here. Mine were a little sluggish the first few days, but now as soon as I put my hand in the water with a silverside, they both come running. Maybe they suffered during shipping. It has been cold lately. Anyway, good luck.

 

[dindi]

don't worry about getting to him your cal levels are very low should be at 450, 400 at the very lowest inverts and corals do best at 450... let us know

 

[dindi]

yes you can add calcium supplement at this time just don't over do it. Now how old is your tank?

 

[phil1964]

Lebowski, I agree.
The tank cycled just over a month ago and I wanted to add a clean up crew before I got more fish. I have been adding seachem reef complete for the last month per directions but cal never goes up. He was aclimated for 3 hours. was very active in the bag. I will wait it out for a few. Ice storm expected tonight so I may blow off work and watch him, if the power does not go out!
Thanks all.

 

[full of questions]

Hey Phil1964
From just my expericnce,the red serepent star's are a nocturnal
animal, so i would give it a few day's,and look in the tang at
night time and see if you can see it out and about.as far as
eating goes they don't seem to eat as good as the brittle
star's do but they eat,i just give mine a small silverside
and sometimes he only takes a few bites,then let's it go,and
last they don't seem to be as active as the other's,meaning
not moving around and as fast.Hope he makes it,they really
are great to have.

 

[phil1964]

Lights went out 30 minutes ago and he is on the move, this has to be good.
The top of his disk is still sunk in, this can't be good.
Just tested all level with 2 test kits and all is as stated above.
Wait and see. Still no sign of those 2 brittle stars though.

 

[ophiura]

First of all, are the arms breaking off?
Is there a hole in the disk, or merely a bit sunken?
Is it out in the open, or in hiding?
FWIW, your salinity is too low for any echinoderms. This is stressful for them.
Go to:
http://home.att.net/~ophiuroid/html/map.html
There is a large, bright red serpent star called Ophioderma squamosissimum. If this is what you have, 3 hours is not a long enough acclimation, IMO, and you may see it deteriorate over the coming weeks. This species is incredibly delicate, and should only be kept in very stable, mature reef systems.
Most brittlestars - notably not the red- can probably hack it in a tank so young, though I prefer not to see it. However, the salinity is a problem, IMO, and you should consider slowly raising it if you are interested in keeping a reef tank.
Lebowski, thanks for quoting me on acclimation These stars are very different in terms of dietary requirements from the one's I was talking about there, and do need to be spot fed instead of simply allowed to scavenge.
A stressed brittlestar will start dropping arms, and will often remain in the open. Try to keep anything from picking at it.

 

[plum70rt]

I have had this one for about 6 months now, he is a pig eats silversides whenever offered, I accclimated him over 8 hours took the whole day, he is one of my favorite creatures in my tank

 

[ophiura]

That's the beast I am thinking of! Look about right, Phil1964? There are some other red serpents, but not as large or bright. This species is incredibly delicate. The next couple of weeks will be very telling....if it does survive, keep it well fed, and watch water parameters every time you do a water change!

 

[phil1964]

That the guy all right.
It is hanging out in the back of the rocks.
No hole in the disk, just sunk in.
Has all his arms but 2” of one was loose in the bag when it arrived.
Have to admit, I did not research them. I research fish until I can’t stand it any more.
My thinking was that a clean up crew was to be added first to a new tank and the stars being part of it were ok. I was wrong, My fault. It will probably happen again but I will try to avoid it

 

[frozenguy]

hope eveything turns out alright man......

 

[ophiura]

Hiding is good. Losing more arms is bad. Watch out for that, and keep your fingers crossed! That is about all that can be done now. You may wish to try feeding, and see if there is any response (shrimp pellets are a nice thing to try). See if you can get them to take it directly, instead of just throwing a bunch in...keeping water quality stable is important.

 

[phil1964]

ophiura, let me say I have seen you helping others and feel honered to have you help me. You have my vote for shark!
I came home from work today and the serpent star looks better. Its disk is not as sunk in. He is moving. Plus I found the 2 brittles. How can they get into such a small hole! On the down side I had 5 snails and 4 scarlet hermits die. Stinky! Got them out and am preparing for a 25 gallon water change tomorrow because I test for .15 ammonia! I am going to abuse my RO/DI to make more water. A water change is the correct thing to do right?
Plus I have a 20 gallon set up for 6 months that is doing great with 1 damsel in it. Should the star be put in there for QT? I think not but am open for your advice.

 

[ophiura]

Awe shucks, thanks!
I don't think it is the best idea to move him, though, gosh darnit, it isn't too great in the main tank either! Well, unless you want to risk acclimating it again for many hours, I think it is best to leave it be. I hope I am not wrong on that, but salinity and pH shock is really hard on these guys. And he's been moving around a lot recently. Boy, that is a tough call. But I would leave it. If the tank is properly cycled it should get through that ammonia pretty rapidly.
Get that water stirred up and mixing in preparation for a water change tomorrow. Be real careful to double check salinity, temp, etc of new water with old. They can go into shock from water changes if done too quickly. Hold off on any feeding in the tank. Be sure you get all of those bodies out!
And, keep keeping those fingers crossed!
Good luck with him. So far, so good.

 

[phil1964]

ophiura
No thanks required.
I am going to leave it in the main tank.
Plus I will raise the salinity as you said before. SLOWLY. Starting tomorrow with the water change. I have confidance all will work out. Right? !
Plus I just looked up your screen name and found out what it means! I HAVE been in the dark.

 

[ophiura]

Hmmm.
I hope that you found it is a genus of brittlestars...one of the largest, in fact....and not something else!!
Take that salinity up sloooowwwllllyyyyy!!
Hopefully everything will work out
The next month is a tough time for this star. One month after acclimation is where we start considering other causes of death, should it deteriorate. But acclimation shock can set in any time within the month. So far, so good...at least it sounds like it!

 

[phil1964]

Ok they are gone. Bummed but smarter. (somewhat)
At least I was able to get to them.
They went down like dominoes.
1 2 3