Reef Safe Starfish?
- Thread starter foogoo
- Start date
P
pa reef pig
Guest
Brittle Star is not only reef safe but is an excellent scavenger and a great addition to any tank. jmo
P
pa reef pig
Guest
Awww, Sterling, why ya gotta tease people like that?
jonthefb
Active Member
that looks a lot like either Mithrodia bradleyi, the eastern pacific nail sea star, which is hardy, but shouldnt be kept with colonial inverts, or Echinaster echinophorus, the thorny sea star, who is also hardy, and is reef safe, and feeds off of micororgansisms on live rock
hope its the second one!
good luck
jon
hope its the second one!
good luck
jon
hairtrigger
Active Member
See, I want some nice stars too, besides the standard issue brittle. But, I know some places say they are "reef safe." When they really eat all your coraline algae like urchins. I don't consider that reef safe because I love my coraline algae. Any pretty ones that are TRULY reef safe, don't eat coraline?
E
eight2178
Guest
dont know much, but i know my brittle star "scary harry" ate one of my damsels....i think it ate my mandarin, and i havent seen my purple nudibranch for a few weeks now....reef safe, ok...fish safe?? hmmm...
ophiura
Active Member
A couple of standard issues, and a pet peeve:
1) IMO, you need a large tank over 100g for a Linckia, and for best long term success with a Fromia. Fromia are well known for dying at about the 1 year mark, most likely due to starvation. A large tank with a lot of LR is, IMO, absolutely the best road to success with these guys. A few months or a year should not be considered success. Only add one of these stars to your tank for best success. They do not exist in high densities in the wild, and need a lot of algal and bacterial films (not macro algae, hair algae, etc) to survive. Wouldn't you eat a lot of bacteria to survive!? It also takes time to regrow in an area that the star has passed over. A Linckia will readily reproduce in a large healthy system, which is the only way, IMO, to add another seastar to such a tank.
2) The reef safe stars (excluding brittlestars and serpentstars) are algal and bacterial film feeders, including other encrusting organisms in their path, though the exact diet is unknown. They will not eat pods, or any prepared foods. Do not rely on spot feeding. This will not work.
3) Though they may eat coraline algae, most people report (as with urchins) that the coraline grows back quickly in a healthy reef tank. However, these animals are not raspers as urchins are, so I am not certain that they really eat that much coraline algae.
4)All reef safe stars are very delicate, and need a large, healthy and mature system that is not prone to water parameter fluctuations. They need a very slow acclimation, at least 4+ hours, using a drip method. This is important for brittle/serpentstars also. The ideal specific gravity is normal reef level- 1.025-1.026. I can not emphasize the need for proper acclimation enough. Death by acclimation stress occurs within a month of introduction or stress. After this, the common cause of death is starvation.
5) The green brittlestar is a known predator in the wild, and this behavior has been reported in reef tanks. While the damsel is a likely meal, my green brittle has not touched snails, or the damsel even though he has grown significantly. Sometimes they are trouble, sometimes they are not, but they will happily chow down on anything dead, dying or ill. Brittle and serpent stars must be spot fed and should not be left to scavenge. I do not recommend the green.
6) Though I know it is not a popular statement, I hope you will let me say (as I study brittlestars) that a basketstar should not be kept in a tank, because successfully keeping them will result in their ultimate death. Basketstars are a very long lived animal (at least 7 years), growing to over 3 feet across when expanded, and need far more than 2 guppies a night. This is not a normal diet (when have you seen a guppy in the ocean?), similar to feeding asian freshwater carp (aka goldfish) to lionfish. How much plankton do you think a basketstar eats when it positions itself on top of a nice coral, in ideal current on a reef? Lots! Even if it is growing, when are you going to get a 3ftX3ftX3ft min tank? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, please do not get a basketstar for your tank. They are best left in the wild. They require, at the very least, hand feeding after dark.
7) The "purple Linckia" is often not, it is often Tamaria stria, which may or may not be reef safe. Another one where some people have trouble and some don't.
1) IMO, you need a large tank over 100g for a Linckia, and for best long term success with a Fromia. Fromia are well known for dying at about the 1 year mark, most likely due to starvation. A large tank with a lot of LR is, IMO, absolutely the best road to success with these guys. A few months or a year should not be considered success. Only add one of these stars to your tank for best success. They do not exist in high densities in the wild, and need a lot of algal and bacterial films (not macro algae, hair algae, etc) to survive. Wouldn't you eat a lot of bacteria to survive!? It also takes time to regrow in an area that the star has passed over. A Linckia will readily reproduce in a large healthy system, which is the only way, IMO, to add another seastar to such a tank.
2) The reef safe stars (excluding brittlestars and serpentstars) are algal and bacterial film feeders, including other encrusting organisms in their path, though the exact diet is unknown. They will not eat pods, or any prepared foods. Do not rely on spot feeding. This will not work.
3) Though they may eat coraline algae, most people report (as with urchins) that the coraline grows back quickly in a healthy reef tank. However, these animals are not raspers as urchins are, so I am not certain that they really eat that much coraline algae.
4)All reef safe stars are very delicate, and need a large, healthy and mature system that is not prone to water parameter fluctuations. They need a very slow acclimation, at least 4+ hours, using a drip method. This is important for brittle/serpentstars also. The ideal specific gravity is normal reef level- 1.025-1.026. I can not emphasize the need for proper acclimation enough. Death by acclimation stress occurs within a month of introduction or stress. After this, the common cause of death is starvation.
5) The green brittlestar is a known predator in the wild, and this behavior has been reported in reef tanks. While the damsel is a likely meal, my green brittle has not touched snails, or the damsel even though he has grown significantly. Sometimes they are trouble, sometimes they are not, but they will happily chow down on anything dead, dying or ill. Brittle and serpent stars must be spot fed and should not be left to scavenge. I do not recommend the green.
6) Though I know it is not a popular statement, I hope you will let me say (as I study brittlestars) that a basketstar should not be kept in a tank, because successfully keeping them will result in their ultimate death. Basketstars are a very long lived animal (at least 7 years), growing to over 3 feet across when expanded, and need far more than 2 guppies a night. This is not a normal diet (when have you seen a guppy in the ocean?), similar to feeding asian freshwater carp (aka goldfish) to lionfish. How much plankton do you think a basketstar eats when it positions itself on top of a nice coral, in ideal current on a reef? Lots! Even if it is growing, when are you going to get a 3ftX3ftX3ft min tank? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, please do not get a basketstar for your tank. They are best left in the wild. They require, at the very least, hand feeding after dark.
7) The "purple Linckia" is often not, it is often Tamaria stria, which may or may not be reef safe. Another one where some people have trouble and some don't.
sterling
Member
Ophiura, I know that guppies should not be the only diet my basket star gets, I also feed it mysis, brine, krill, daphnia etc. It really likes guppies though.
I also have a very well established tank, knocking on wood (my head), and at night with the flashlight the water is totally alive with little things flitting about. I'm sure it's getting nourishment from that also.
I don't believe it's starving because it is larger than when I got it, has more legs and I have it almost a year now. After watching this thing for the past near-year, I believe that they probably DO eat small fish, baby fish in the wild. It has no problem with the size. I'm also going to try some ghost shrimp, because a store I go to is now carrying them.
If I had known the difficulty with them before, I probably would not have gotten him, but I was nieve about them, hadn't done any research beforehand, it just happened to be at the LFS one day when I went in, and well, the rest is history.
I'm trying my best with him, I actually stay up late just to make sure he gets food.
I also have a very well established tank, knocking on wood (my head), and at night with the flashlight the water is totally alive with little things flitting about. I'm sure it's getting nourishment from that also.
I don't believe it's starving because it is larger than when I got it, has more legs and I have it almost a year now. After watching this thing for the past near-year, I believe that they probably DO eat small fish, baby fish in the wild. It has no problem with the size. I'm also going to try some ghost shrimp, because a store I go to is now carrying them.
If I had known the difficulty with them before, I probably would not have gotten him, but I was nieve about them, hadn't done any research beforehand, it just happened to be at the LFS one day when I went in, and well, the rest is history.
I'm trying my best with him, I actually stay up late just to make sure he gets food.
ophiura
Active Member
I do not doubt they catch larval fish, but they do not catch guppies. Adults can in fact catch small fish. As it is not a crinoid, it does not have the dietary restrictions on size of prey and therefore is not particularly difficult to feed, except for its nocturnal habits, and need for spot feeding a diversity of foods in order to prevent fouling of the whole tank.
But there are many LFS people around who sell these animals, and many people who may be tempted to get them without knowing what their requirements are, as it seems you can relate to. So, along the same idea, I am not real pleased to see a post on "reef safe stars" and see a picture of one of the most difficult of them all without any reference to the difficulty in keeping them. If Linckia has a bad survival record, basketstars have a dismal one.
If he is alive in 7 years and full grown, I will consider this a success. But I imagine an animal that is 3 feet in every direction will not be very comfortabe in most tanks. I am glad that you take the time to give it personal attention, but it does not change the fact that this is an animal best left in the wild. Your personal attention, which it most certainly needs, nonetheless may help this animal to eat itself out of house and home. To me, that is an easy way to determine what sort of animals should be restricted in this hobby.
If it is doomed because it does too well, that isn't such a good thing.
Just my opinion.
But there are many LFS people around who sell these animals, and many people who may be tempted to get them without knowing what their requirements are, as it seems you can relate to. So, along the same idea, I am not real pleased to see a post on "reef safe stars" and see a picture of one of the most difficult of them all without any reference to the difficulty in keeping them. If Linckia has a bad survival record, basketstars have a dismal one.
If he is alive in 7 years and full grown, I will consider this a success. But I imagine an animal that is 3 feet in every direction will not be very comfortabe in most tanks. I am glad that you take the time to give it personal attention, but it does not change the fact that this is an animal best left in the wild. Your personal attention, which it most certainly needs, nonetheless may help this animal to eat itself out of house and home. To me, that is an easy way to determine what sort of animals should be restricted in this hobby.
If it is doomed because it does too well, that isn't such a good thing.
Just my opinion.
sterling
Member
Ophiura, you're exactly right that they probably should not be captured and sold, and I DO try my best to keep it fed and comfortable. I bought it, not knowing anything, mistake number one, but I have tried not to make any mistakes after that.
The fact that I have managed to keep it alive, and seemingly healthy and growing makes me happy, and I wish it had a better home.
I have tried finding a better situation for it. I have offered it to people who seem more knowledgeable than me, no one wanted it. I have even contacted the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago and offered to donate it, but no one got back to me from there either.
So rather than flush it down the toilet, which some people would do rather than stay up late, I bought it, I'm housing it, I am responsible for it. And until someone says, "I could take much better care of it, send it to me." I guess I'll continue doing what I'm doing and hope for the best.
If and when it starts getting much too large for me to house, I will box it up and drive down to the Shedd Aquarium with it and beg them to take it. I don't know what else I would do. But you don't think it will live that long, so I guess it's a mute point.
The fact that I have managed to keep it alive, and seemingly healthy and growing makes me happy, and I wish it had a better home.
I have tried finding a better situation for it. I have offered it to people who seem more knowledgeable than me, no one wanted it. I have even contacted the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago and offered to donate it, but no one got back to me from there either.
So rather than flush it down the toilet, which some people would do rather than stay up late, I bought it, I'm housing it, I am responsible for it. And until someone says, "I could take much better care of it, send it to me." I guess I'll continue doing what I'm doing and hope for the best.
If and when it starts getting much too large for me to house, I will box it up and drive down to the Shedd Aquarium with it and beg them to take it. I don't know what else I would do. But you don't think it will live that long, so I guess it's a mute point.
richard rendos
Active Member
Linkias,serpents,brittles,fromias are all somewhat reef safe.
majakarot
Member
wow guys, if you want to get into that debate aren't all our fish better off in the wild? you say how often do you find guppies in the ocean well i say how often do fish run into glass walls in the ocean, my very limited research has told me that most fish live longer in the ocean than in captivity...