Reef temperatures

[bang guy]

I'd like to start an information gathering thread about Normal Tropical Reef Temperatures.
Many of the older texts I've read listed average reef temperatures in the mid to upper 70's. After noticing conflicting readings in Kauai, Phillipines, and Carribean I dug a little deeper into the research.
I found (as have others) that most of these average reef temperatures came from the same oceanic temperature table that also listed Temperate reef temperatures.
It seems pretty obvious that if you're keeping Tropical marine animals the Temperate reef temperatures should be disregarded.
I believe if you have a successful reef tank using sub-80F temperature more power to you and don't change anything that works. All I saying is that Normal Tropical reef temperature where our animals come from are in the low to mid 80's.

 

[beth]

Bang, this should be an interesting discussion to follow...even if I don't agree with all that you say when applying your premise generally to captive reef systems.
Anyway, I'm moving this thread over to the Reef Forum where it should get a larger reading.
Thanks for posting an interesting topic!

 

[u235a4]

I feel the same way i keep my reef tanks between 80 and 82 and SPG at 1.023 to 1.024 and my critters in the tanks seem to flourish. I have yet to have anything die, except for stuff that is dead from shipping when i get it

 

[fallen04]

i am on the other end of the spectrum. during the day i cant keep my tank under 92 and at night it averages 78. things are croaking right and left

 

[njdiver]

Water temps in the wild... Places like Guam, Palau, Papua New Guniea tend to be in the 80-85 range year round. (Closer to the equater)
If you go say to the Great Barrier Reef, the temps run a little cooler say 75-82 or so.
As far as what coral is able to grow at what temps in the wild, you also have to filter in water depth and water clairity.
How hot is too hot?? A few years back El Nino caused some major coral bleaching in places like the Maldives, I THINK the temps got into the 87+ range there.
_Scott

 

[bang guy]

Beth - Thank you for moving this thread for me. I goofed <img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" />
I agree that every reef tank is individual and ALL parameter need to be adjusted the best match each individual reef tank.
I'm not saying ANYONE should alter their temps based on the research of one person If what you are doing works then don't mess with it. A small box of water is a totally different environment that the wide open ocean so we must make allowances for that.
Now, <img src="graemlins//silly.gif" border="0" alt="[silly]" /> That being said, going to extreme measures to try to cool an aquarium from 84 to get it to 78 is a mistake IMO. If you commonly reach temperatures in the mid 80's then you should adjust the average temperature up to avoid fluctuations. It 's musch less stress for corals to adjust to 84 or 85 from a temp of 82 than it is to adjust from 75.
Take account for the location where your animals are thriving in the wild. If your coral are from Australia then 80F is probably a good temperature to maintain. But, If we're talking about the Red sea then 80F is really cold. Average surface water (<100ft) temperatures there are usually in the mid to upper 80's and peak in the low 90's.
Most of the corals and fish we maintain in our aquariums have the highest population densities where average water temperatures are between 82 and 84. That is where I keep my temperature but I agree that each tank needs to be evaluated individually.
A Red Sea biotope would be best maintained at 85 - 87F and a Great barrier reef setup would probably do best at 78 - 80F
Fallen - My Opinion on your situation: Your tank inhabitants are probably dieing from the temperature fluctuations and not just from the 92 degree high. I'd suggest you employ fans to blow across every open water area to get the High temperature lowered and adjust your heaters to get your low temperature higher. If you can manage to get your temperature range from 84 - 88 you're going to be able to save the animals that are still alive.
You could also alternate your lighting schedule to reverse daylight until the emergency is over.

 

[chinnyr]

I have been keeping my temp at around 80/82,and things have been going great.I was worried at first to bring down the temp to 78.But,there have been no problems so I left things to be.

 

[glazer]

Bang,
I am with you here. After doing extensive reading and researching about temp and salinity in the reef areas I decided to up the temps on my tanks. I now keep them at 85. I have found this temp just plain easier to keep... No more big temp flucuations between lights out/on cycle and everything seems to be doing very well. I have increased my water flow considerably to provide a better gas exchange as well.
Something else you might find interesting... after years of keeping my SG at .024 I decided to raise this as well as I was really amazed at some of the SG readings on natural reefs and how high they can actually be. I have a 30 and a 7.5 nano that I keep the SG at .028 and I just set up a 5.5 nano a couple of weeks ago and have my water in that at .030 to .032
I don't have anything in the 5.5 other than rock right now, some pieces new and fully cured from a LFS and a few small pieces out of my 30. I have been seeing life literally explode off these rocks like I have never seen before.
(I guess this is where I place the disclaimer... Attention, I am not recommending that everyone try this, this is just my own little experiment and so far everything seems to be doing really really well with these new values)

 

[sgt__york]

I'm just curious.. you mentioned the explosion of live on the rock from raising the salinity.
What kind of rock is it? What kind of life? I have also read a bit more on temp and salinities and was amazed to find out natural parameters as compared to those hobby'st try to maintain.
Granted there is a huge difference between captive systems and the wild - but don't most of these refer to intensities of affect?? A whale dies in the ocean - no ammonia spikes - a tang dies in a small reef a much bigger environmental change. Similarly, it takes a lot more energy to heat up a section of ocean, than it does 120 gal of water in our closed systesms.
That said, isn't a general (non fluxuationg temp) and salinity something we can MUCH more equate to the wild tho? A fish or coral that enjoys a tolerance of a given temp and salinity - what is the real benefit to changing these factors (lower temps, lower salinities)? Seems in general, these are the easiest factors to keep stable - as compared to nitrates, phosphates, ph, calcium levels, stronium levels, iodine levels, etc...
I strongly agree that temp FLUXUATIONS are more of a detriment than any high or low given temp. But still, various corals are still bound to flourish and be happier in a range of temp for their species - as seen in Adaptive Radiation in the article below.
Is your species truly FLOURISHING or just surviving?
One particular article I saw someone post once - i found quite enlightening...
<a href="http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp" target="_blank">http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp</a>
PS: sidenote question - in the even'n when your tank lights are off - does anyone think there is any genuine benefit to having a very small 7-10watt bulb in the tank to produce shadowing and the 'moonlight' affect for fish - as opposed to complete darkness? Or does this level of 'nature reproduction' only benefit experiments in spawning?

 

[wrassecal]

80 - 82 and sg 1.025 here. We didn't do any research both happened by accident (summer and evaporation). I was worried at first but noticed everyone/thing seemed a little happier so we have kept it in that range for a couple months now and will keep it there. I'm glad to see some verification that we weren't messing up.

 

[new]

my tank has maintained a constant 78 deg since i switched to a sump, this is only measured with the mercury thermometer but i have not noticed any movement within a degree in a week. as for lighting after dark where my tank sits gets a small amount of ambient light at all times so it getsa the effect anyway. i will watch this thread closely as when i purchased my set-up there was alot of discussion about this topic.

 

[sanangelosaltfish1]

I am fairly new to the hobby but i am blessed to live in the same town as larry jackson. Larry told me in setting up my tanks that he runs his at .028 sal. and anywhere from 78 to 82 in his tanks. Im trying to follow his advice to the T. So thats where my tank is.

 

[frankl15207]

Sammy committed, but Beth seemed to dodge an answer. I never had a problem keeping a fish only tank at 78. However, with the reef tank, I had to buy a chiller that is set to go on at 79 and off at 77. Everything in the tank is doing fine, but if I can allow the temperature to rise without a problem to the inhabitants, I'm all for it. Lower electric bills and less noise from the chiller which is running a lot more now with summer here. Come on Beth, what temperature do you keep your tank at? And, given the option of controlling it, what temperature would you keep the tank at?

 

[fshhub]

maintain ours around 82-83, jsut to keep it stable, and it has been there for over a year, the corals do very well, the fish are healthy(seem more active with the stability) and the macro algaes are growing like no one believes

 

[katara]

well, mine is at a constant 81 & though I've had zero success w/fish I have a wonderful reef that is growing at amazing rates; especially for a beginer w/beginner's equipment..but I'm not bragging yet..it's only been 8 months <img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" />

 

[sgt__york]

wow.. NO luck w/fish?? I would think fish are much easier to keep than corals. How long have they gone before 'their' luck ran out? lol You know your doing something wrong, when the fish hide from ya, when u come browsing in ur LFS hehehe
I was just wondering if it might have been acclimation method? a sick fish from the start? Not enuf/proper food? What kinda fish were they tho? and how long did they (or didn't they) make it?
sorry to be off subject... I still havn't gotten an answer from my ques above.. about what kind of rock and what kind of life began to explode w/the salinity increase. I'm curious, i had mine setup at 1.022, but recently raised it to 1.024.. considering going up again to 1.026. I have no corals right now.. just added the last of my live rock..so now's a great time to do it..when i do my 50% water change shortly

 

[glazer]

sgt_york,
I think you were waiting for an answer from me, just haven't looked at the thread for awhile.
To answer your question, anytime I added rock to any of my tanks it would definitely "grow out" but the time factor was the main thing... usually a couple of months before it really looked like it was doing much. The rock I put in my nano was some branchy stuff supposedly from Bali and then there was basically rubble from my 30. The rocks from the 30 are Fiji. They pretty much only had purple coraline on them as the were buried in the sand mostly... The Bali rock same thing pretty much, just coraline. At a SG of .030 and temp of 85 in just three weeks I have seen literally almost everything popping off these rocks.
The Fiji pieces have several different types of sponges start growing, macros such as halemda... both of which are not visible in the tank they came from. The Bali.... am seeing several spots where small colonys of "zoos" are starting to show up... appears to be some polyps, 'shrooms and stars as well as a plethora of things I am not sure about yet due to their small size and unfamiliarity with what I am seeing. And I got pods for days... tank is literally crawling with them. This is just in a few weeks, the part that amazes me. Maybe some might not find this unusual but I do... It's like that little tank has been thrown into hyperdrive!...lol

 

[kris walker]

78-82.
Interesting topic.
I'd like to point out that rapid fluctuations of temperature occur on patch reefs all the time, and there are even hard corals that thrive in those conditions. I have snorkeled before on a reef in Hawaii (nearshore) and on a patch reef off Key Largo, and felt significant temperature changes there. I have also felt a huge change in temperature where very warm water heated by the sun in the moat around the fort on the main Dry Tortugas island (70 mi west of Key West) drained into the surrounding waters on the other side of the wall. Right where the mixing occurs, there exists lots of hard and soft corals. This mixing has been occuring for at least 200 years, and I know the corals I saw were younger than that, so they are thriving.
Speaking of changes, I have also seen "salinity" mixing in Hawaii, right in this reef environment. You can tell because everything looked fuzzy due to the mixing of the salinities--but granted I don't know how much of a salinity difference existed between the mixing fluids.
In short, IMO, "rapid" swings in temperature are not bad unless the average is moving into an extreme (60's or 90's?). I think what is really bad is a prolonged exposure to either extreme (and I don't know how long "prolonged" is).
Cheers,
kris

 

[sgt__york]

hmmm... it takes a GREAT deal of energy to heat such large bodies of water. Granted there are places in the world where bodies of diff temperatures meet - different salinities meet - heck, even saltwater and freshwater meet - and live abounds most everywhere.
However, various species generally have 'optimal' preferred conditions - meaning conditions in which they thrive the most - use most of their energy for reproduction. Just because life is 'found' i'm not sure i'd say that is a sign for 'optimal' conditions.
In addition, most of the corals we haev access to - likely do NOT come from such 'mixing' pots. Thus, i would have to believe that fluxations of salinity and temp would have to be the most detrimental, as compared to STEADY temp. It sounds also, as if the optimum temp range is in the low 80's. Granted depending on whether your corals come from the cooler gulf or the hotter pacific type of climates - it might be best (more productive/successful) to stick with one temperature zone and thus, also corals from that region. You could draw a compromise, and pick a temp in between the 2 and do either coral - but probably won't get as good of results as creating optimal conditions for the species. Granted, some corals have a larger comfort zone than others - but they all have their 'optimal' temp/salinity.
It just seems to me as hobbyist that have in the past shot for 78deg temp, and 1.022/1.023 salinity - in observing nature - maybe the 'optimal' conditions should be more like 82-86deg temp & 1.026-1.028 salinity? My conclusions might be off, but from hobby'st success stories, AND scientific articles abounding - seems a lot more evidence for this scenario.

 

[kris walker]

Yea, I agree, water has a high specific heat capacity, but small pockets of water temporarily cutoff from the main ocean currents can easily get heated up by the sun, especially in shallow patch reef environments.
I don't think there is any scientific evidence against saying that corals can thrive in reefs where there are chaotic rapid temerature changes, but if you know of some, please direct me to it.
My main point is that it corals thrive in nature where there are rapid chaotic temperature changes on the order of 5 to 10 deg over anywhere from second timespans to probably tidal (6-hour) timespans. I am not saying to reproduce it in tanks. I am one for stability too. Just thought it would be an interesting observation to point out.
"Nature teaches science, not the reverse."
--Paul Devereux
kris