ReefNut or Thomas712

[mavgi]

Hi
i read about bb reef tank and i want to know what is your opinion more then that the person use with air bubble filtration and he stock about 15 fish in 55 gallon tank. i copy here the post that i read and the link to his personal page i ask you please if you can look on that and let me know what do you think about that from your experience . i am adding a new tank and it will be reef i plane to put there sps coral and fish. before i setup the tank i want the best idea. here is the post that i read and the link :
I rebuilt my 2 year old tank about 6 months ago because I was having a hair algae control problem. I was also having difficulty keeping nutrients low enough to have any real success with SPS.
There are several major changes in equipment and approach that I made that I am very pleased with. The photos speak for themselves about if it improved my reef keeping system.
I am not giving any single modification or change credit for the improvments and new ease in keeping my system.
1. Changed out my DSB and went BB. Installed a 1/2' thick black acrylic bottom. (see wrasse photo)
2. Modified and greatly improved my skimmer performance.
3. Added a bag filter system that all my tank over flow goes through. I change out a hand full of polyester floss I put into the bags every couple of days as it becomes full of detrius.
4. I dose 2ml of vodka into the bags daily
5. Every 4 hours for 20 minutes a large capacity recirculation pump turns on and mixes all the waste off of the bottom so it overflows into the filter bags. For about a minute while the pump is running automatically an air stone is turned on which puts fine bubbles into the pump inlet.
This makes for a brief period of white foam froth through out the tank, like a heavy wave action would do. The bubbles attach themselves to the stirred up waste and float it to the top to be overflowed. Also, I was pleasently surprised to see what the bubbles did to the SPS, alot of the SPS slime is removed by the bubbles and floats over the top. ( I have a heavy fish load...15 fish in a 50 gal tank)
A few controversial things.
I am sure I will get both positive and negative comments. It has been in place for 6 moths and the tank and coral growth has never been better. Some of my SPS have nearly doubled in size in three months, and the color is great. I had a new blue Acro tort arrive dark brown last week and it turned blue in a week. I no longer have algae problems, the live rock is now covered with coraline, and the tank bottom is always clean. I simply make 20% water changes every two weeks, and unless I see a sign of stress, I no longer do any water analysis testing.
I'm pleased with the tank postive response and progress. I am sure it will look even better in a few years.
BB results
http://homepage.mac.com/johnlaurenso...toAlbum46.html
thanks
michael

 

[danedodger]

I'm going to chime in so that this bumps up and hopefully our resident experts can chime in on it too! I'm fascinated by this but admit I don't really understand it either so mabe someone can help out? And what on gawd's green earth would you add VODKA into this for???????????

 

[reefnut]

The process he is using with the bubbles is very similar to what a protein skimmer would do except instead of it foaming into a cup, it gets filtered through a sock. Pretty cool idea IMO but I don't see how it would be practical in a normal setup. There are some other things in place that I think is making the most difference for him. Enhancing the skimmer's performance has to make a huge difference. The filter sock is removing the waste which is stirred vigorously every 4 hours. I prefer to have critters doing the water filtering but it seems to be working for him... having the waste stirred vigorously every 4 hours is a great idea though... keeping it suspended will allow critters to feed off of it instead of it becoming excess nutrients. There's no doubt that his system is more mechanical than natural. I personally prefer the more natural methiods...
There are claims that micro-bubbles will harm fish as well as corals... I have no direct experience with if that's true or not.
IME a sps tank can be ran successfully with natural filtration and I prefer it that way. Granted you may not be able to put 15 fish in a 55g but I wouldn't do that anyway.

 

[viper_930]

The vodka feeds the bacteria and increases the population, thus speeding up the processing of nutrients.
He mentions that the bubbles help remove the slime from the SPS corals. I'd wonder what would be causing them to slime in the first place.

Another method to keep nutrient levels down in an SPS tank is to use wet-skimming. Just increase the amount of skimmate you have to remove more nutrients. In a 100g tank it wouldn't be uncommon to get a whole gallon of skimmate per day when doing wet-skimming.

 

[mavgi]

thanks for reading.
i want to know if you suggest to go with dsb or bb what will be better ?
for skimmer i plane one of this : the mrc2 or the euro reef rs8-3 the picture here i want to
konw your opinion about this to. (i know the deltec and barr aquatic good skimmer to)and i want to know what you think can be the better one.
about lighting i have already the : Aquaspacelight 2 250w DE HQI + 2 24w PC. Metal Halide
the size it's 48" and i want to know if they can be good to tank: 60X18X24h or 60X24X24.
i will add a fuge 40- 50 gallon.
thanks again

 

[thomas712]

Interesting, I've read and heard about the vodka approach, and I'm sure Golfish might even know about that approach himself

Personally I've never tried it.
Definitely an interesting approach to reef keeping. I would definitely disagree with having all those bubbles going around in my tank they can cause problems for fish and their sensitive gills as well as cause and complicate popeye problems with fish.
What gets me is that he has made all these equipment and method changes, which help keep the tank cleaner and process or remove nutrients quicker, but then makes these statements:
It has been in place for 6 months and the tank and coral growth has never been better. Some of my SPS have nearly doubled in size in three months, and the color is great. I had a new blue Acro tort arrive dark brown last week and it turned blue in a week. I no longer have algae problems, the live rock is now covered with coralline, and the tank bottom is always clean. I simply make 20% water changes every two weeks, and unless I see a sign of stress, I no longer do any water analysis testing.
I can see where this would/might clean up his algae problem, kudos to him!
This does not explain why his live rock is now covered in coralline algae, that's a water chemistry thing which I'm sure would have something to do with alkalinity, calcium and magnesium, and that has little to do with the equipment changes he made. Anyone who had kept sps corals knows just how fast (depending on stocking) those three elements can be used up. There has to be some dosing right? or water changes?, enough to make a difference in the chemistry to see the results that he claims to get.
Now his water may have more clarity to it with these changes, and his lighting may then make better contact with the objects in it so coralline production may indeed be better, added circulation may also play a part there, but you don't have to have intense lighting for coralline algae either, but you would for most sps corals.
So I'm not saying that this guys results are false or inaccurate, however I would want to know how else he maintains his systems water chemistry, just a 20% water change?
As to an Arco that went from brown to blue in a week, I know of some folks here that have seen those types of results in regular sand bed and good lighting reef tanks. How do we know what had happend to the coral before it came to his possession? I'm glad that this person had good if not great results, but I'd simply want to know more about the system and how its maintained.
As to your question:
I want to know if you suggest to go with dsb or bb what will be better ?
Well everyone's results will be different no matter what we do. As always other factors or forces are at work like lighting, chemistry, filtration methods..yada..yada..yadda.
My preference would be a shallow sand bed, with a remote DSB in the fuge.
Your tank~your choice.......famous broomerisum
Thomas

 

[mavgi]

thanks a lot thomas and all.
in the tank it will be good 2" of sand ? at the fuge i will put 4"-6" .
do you have any opinion about the skimmers ?
and i believe i will need to add a calcium reactor to.

 

[fishamajig]

I am by far no expert. ( we all know about my excipades with my first kalk dosing) but i have had both systems. dsb and bb. and i can tell you what I found through reading and personal experience. a dsb is great as far as a natural filtration method, a place for microfauna to spawn, and a home to many inverts and fish(jawfish, gobies, ect.ect.) i do find better results in keeping algie blooms at bay in the beginning of the dsb process due to the ability of the dsb being able to "sink" the excess phosphates and nutrients. plus you will never have to cook your live rock( a process where you rid the live rock of excess organic dieoff) but as far as going bb there are diffrent theories involved. the bb process relies less on the "natural" way of filtration and solely relies on mechanical and husbandry. typically in a bb system you overskim. and since there is no sand on the bottom you can add as much flow as you want keeping the detritus suspended and over the overflow into a filtersock or manually removed through siphon. plus the skimmers are tweaked to skim wet to remove excess nutrients. I dont know much on the vodka dosing but imo if you run a bb system right you dont need it. I do love the look of sand but bb has been a better choice for me. you have to decide for yourself though.

 

[jhebi]

Just one word....DAMMMMM you guys know your stuff

 

[viper_930]

IMO choosing the substrate (DSB or BB) and cooking the LR are two unrelated methods to reach the same goal: to lower the excess nutrient levels. If I were to setup another SPS-dominated tank, I'd go with both a BB and also cook my LR.
I've never used vodka either, but many people with BB tanks do dose small amounts regularly to boost the beneficial bacteria populations. The absence of a DSB greatly decreases the available surface area for the bacteria to colonize on.
My tank (DSB) has also turned brown and receeding corals into colorful, healthy pieces in a weeks time, and I credit that to simple over-skimming - not much to it.
Very unique system he setup, I've never seen the display integrated inide the skimmer before. :thinking:

 

[fishamajig]

Originally Posted by ViPeR_930
IMO choosing the substrate (DSB or BB) and cooking the LR are two unrelated methods to reach the same goal: to lower the excess nutrient levels. If I were to setup another SPS-dominated tank, I'd go with both a BB and also cook my LR.

i was just mentioning it, i unfortunately didnt cook my rock and have to siphon a bunch of crap off the bottom every few days. I just moved the tank and am now going to have a 55 gal sump so it will be easier to suspend the crap and let it go into a filter sock over the overflow. just trying to preach the word of cooking rock. I now have to deal with a struggle with hair algie because i didnt. p.i.t.a.