Refugium Questions
- Thread starter chris l
- Start date
me-n-my-fish
Member
They way I did it is to get an over flow box for your tank. This will carry the water down to the 10 gal. Then I have a mag 300 gph pump to bring the water back up to your tank. You will want to put a check valve or something to break the siphon in the case of a power outage.
broomer5
Active Member
In a 10 gallon refugium with a DSB, I would guess you'd be adding maybe 7-8 additional gallons of saltwater to the system.
If your 44 gallon tank has already cycled and has adequate biological filtration - adding an additional 7-8 or so gallons of new saltwater should not pose a problem.
The new DSB in the refugium will eventually become populated with bacteria, and IMO all should be fine.
There should be no reason to isolate this 10 gallon addition, and cycle it separately in my best estimation.
If your 44 gallon tank has already cycled and has adequate biological filtration - adding an additional 7-8 or so gallons of new saltwater should not pose a problem.
The new DSB in the refugium will eventually become populated with bacteria, and IMO all should be fine.
There should be no reason to isolate this 10 gallon addition, and cycle it separately in my best estimation.
broomer5
Active Member
Well ...
Here's the dilemma.
If you have a 10 gallon refugium hooked up to an overflow from your 44 gallon tank, and you plan to put a return pump in this refugium ... you must isolate it from the algae and sand/live rock in the refugium. Otherwise the pump will suck stuff up.
If you do isolate the return pump in this 10 gallon tank, and use a pump with say 300 gph, you'll pump 300 up to the tank, and get 300 back to the refugium. That's a lot of flow in a 10 gallon refugium. Plus you must allow for a rise in the refugium when the pump turns off - some amount of water will drain back to it from the main tank (until the siphon is broken ).
So you're 10 gallon refugium may only be able to normally operate at say 5 gallons of water.
And when you turn the pump on - I'm afraid the water returning to such a small refugium will stir everything up - and not allow you the full benefits of having the refugium.
If you choose a very low flow pump, you can overcome this high velocity water draining back down from the overflow, BUT you may find that you don't have enough flow through the U-Tube ... air bubbles may accumulate in this U-Tube, and eventually cause the siphon in the tube to quit.
Then you have BIG problems.
Ideally - the installation of a separate SUMP and a REFUGIUM is the best, or at least have a dual sump/refugium single vessel.
A place for the pump, and a place for the refugium stuff.
You avoid or at least eliminate the chance of many of the above pitfalls and potentials for disaster.
By having a sump - you can run the overflow at near capacity, use a good sized return pump, get a good turnover of tankwater which aids in circulation and air exchange, adds a measureable volume of water to the total system, allows you a place to put your heater and other equipment ( skimmer )and let's everything run full blast.
But you must have a way of tying the refugium into the system.
How much room do you have under your 44 tank/stand ?
Have you explored using Rubbermaid type containers ?
Could you fit a 20 gallon or larger tank under your stand ?
Do you have anywhere else you could locate the sump/refugium rather than under your tank/stand ?
It's pretty easy to set up a sump and refugium using different approaches.
I, as well as others here, would be glad to help any way that we can.
Just let us know - okay Chris
Here's the dilemma.
If you have a 10 gallon refugium hooked up to an overflow from your 44 gallon tank, and you plan to put a return pump in this refugium ... you must isolate it from the algae and sand/live rock in the refugium. Otherwise the pump will suck stuff up.
If you do isolate the return pump in this 10 gallon tank, and use a pump with say 300 gph, you'll pump 300 up to the tank, and get 300 back to the refugium. That's a lot of flow in a 10 gallon refugium. Plus you must allow for a rise in the refugium when the pump turns off - some amount of water will drain back to it from the main tank (until the siphon is broken ).
So you're 10 gallon refugium may only be able to normally operate at say 5 gallons of water.
And when you turn the pump on - I'm afraid the water returning to such a small refugium will stir everything up - and not allow you the full benefits of having the refugium.
If you choose a very low flow pump, you can overcome this high velocity water draining back down from the overflow, BUT you may find that you don't have enough flow through the U-Tube ... air bubbles may accumulate in this U-Tube, and eventually cause the siphon in the tube to quit.
Then you have BIG problems.
Ideally - the installation of a separate SUMP and a REFUGIUM is the best, or at least have a dual sump/refugium single vessel.
A place for the pump, and a place for the refugium stuff.
You avoid or at least eliminate the chance of many of the above pitfalls and potentials for disaster.
By having a sump - you can run the overflow at near capacity, use a good sized return pump, get a good turnover of tankwater which aids in circulation and air exchange, adds a measureable volume of water to the total system, allows you a place to put your heater and other equipment ( skimmer )and let's everything run full blast.
But you must have a way of tying the refugium into the system.
How much room do you have under your 44 tank/stand ?
Have you explored using Rubbermaid type containers ?
Could you fit a 20 gallon or larger tank under your stand ?
Do you have anywhere else you could locate the sump/refugium rather than under your tank/stand ?
It's pretty easy to set up a sump and refugium using different approaches.
I, as well as others here, would be glad to help any way that we can.
Just let us know - okay Chris
chris l
Member
There isn't alot of room under my stand. About the only thing that will fit would be the 10 gallon. The tank is in the corner of the room (as it is a corner tank) with couch and love seat on each side of it. So my room is very limited as to where is can put it. Can I use a piece of acrylic to put in the corner to isolate the pump so nothing gets sucked up? But what about the other problems? Thanks for all help Broomer!!!!
broomer5
Active Member
Sure Chris,
You could partition off one end of the tank for sump and other for growing stuff, algae and pods if desired.
Here's another thought to kick around.
If you divided the glass tank with an 2 acrylic sheets, one end for overflow hose coming down from tank, middle for refugium, and other end for sump, placed your pump in the sump side, you may find it works better.
The dividers height would be positioned in sort of a stair step fashion.
Water drains back down to the one end, level rises up to some height of the acrylic divider, falls over into the refugium middle portion, again rises up to the next divider height and falls back over to the sump side.
I've seen this set up before often, and I know there are folks here that have similar set ups.
Bubbles will form as the draining overflow water comes down to that end of the tank. Having the refugium in the middle may help to eliminate these bubbles from hitting your suction side of the return pump. There would be some dwell time allowing these bubbles to pop.
Install a ball valve on the discharge side of your return pump. You'll be able to regulate the flow somewhat and possibly find that happy balanced medium.
If it were me - I'd at least go with a Magdrive#3 - it's a good pump.
One last thing.
Do you have enough room for a 15 high ?
It may give you a little more room height wise, but of course if you don't have the vertical space under the tank in the stand - I'd understand.
You could partition off one end of the tank for sump and other for growing stuff, algae and pods if desired.
Here's another thought to kick around.
If you divided the glass tank with an 2 acrylic sheets, one end for overflow hose coming down from tank, middle for refugium, and other end for sump, placed your pump in the sump side, you may find it works better.
The dividers height would be positioned in sort of a stair step fashion.
Water drains back down to the one end, level rises up to some height of the acrylic divider, falls over into the refugium middle portion, again rises up to the next divider height and falls back over to the sump side.
I've seen this set up before often, and I know there are folks here that have similar set ups.
Bubbles will form as the draining overflow water comes down to that end of the tank. Having the refugium in the middle may help to eliminate these bubbles from hitting your suction side of the return pump. There would be some dwell time allowing these bubbles to pop.
Install a ball valve on the discharge side of your return pump. You'll be able to regulate the flow somewhat and possibly find that happy balanced medium.
If it were me - I'd at least go with a Magdrive#3 - it's a good pump.
One last thing.
Do you have enough room for a 15 high ?
It may give you a little more room height wise, but of course if you don't have the vertical space under the tank in the stand - I'd understand.
broomer5
Active Member
The standard AllGlass 15 high is the same footprint as a AllGlass 10 gallon, just 6 inches higher.
15 High 20"L x 10"W x18"H
Using the 15 high would just allow you more water running at normal operating level, and when the pump is off, gives you a little more vertical safety in the sump.
It's deeper.
Yeah - just set it up like a 10, but allow the extra height of the 15 for safety.
15 High 20"L x 10"W x18"H
Using the 15 high would just allow you more water running at normal operating level, and when the pump is off, gives you a little more vertical safety in the sump.
It's deeper.
Yeah - just set it up like a 10, but allow the extra height of the 15 for safety.
chris l
Member
Jester.......thanks for the info. I have taken notice that a lot of people won't answer questions that someone else asks if it isn't their post. Try starting your own topic. Maybe then someone will answer. I would but I don't know the answer to your question. I have a 36 watt jbj light to use on mine. Good luck!!