Regal Tang...normal?

[speg]

If you have no other options of true treatment... i'd suggest feeding garlic soaked food daily. My brother had just gotten two regal tangs and they both have ich... but they are happy and eating... he has had the ich for around 2-3 weeks now on those tangs.
Whats the temp of the tank?
By the way... a 'handfull of ich' is a hella large amount!

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Speg
If you have no other options of true treatment... i'd suggest feeding garlic soaked food daily. My brother had just gotten two regal tangs and they both have ich... but they are happy and eating... he has had the ich for around 2-3 weeks now on those tangs.
Whats the temp of the tank?
By the way... a 'handfull of ich' is a hella large amount!

haha ha a when i say handfull i mean(still LOL) 9 or 10 spots, and the temp is at 77-78
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
salinity- 1.022-1.023 (

i dont have a refractometer, but my hydro is still new, i tested it to a refractometer, its dead on)
ammonia-0
PH-8.2-8.3
but just curiously, he has had it for 2-3 weeks?? thats a lil long id say

 

[beth]

Carshark, do you have LR in your tank, corals at all, or just the star and the shrimp?

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by carshark

i dont have a refractometer, but my hydro is still new, i tested it to a refractometer, its dead on)
Is that a glass hydrometer? If it is a swingarm, then I would throw it away.

 

[speg]

If you could possibly try raising your temp to around 82 you may get a little control. I believe ich doesnt really do well with high temps. It also likes salty water.. so try to keep the salinity where you have it now... cant go much lower since you do have inverts.

 

[beth]

The temp raising only speeds up the life cycle, but 82 really won't make a difference and anything beyond that starts to be inappropriate for marine tanks. Anyhow, speeding up the life cycle won't do much good if you ultimately don't treat the ich. It will only come back in a couple of week, perhaps even stronger than before, and more resistent to higher temps.
If you have corals and inverts, you can't fool around with salinity. You can't sacrifice a reef tank for fish, that is why anyone with a reef tank should always QT first.
All you can do is garlic feedings, but that is not going to really work in a situation, like this, where the fish are infested. It is ok as a preventive and an immune boaster.
Unfortunately, there are no easy fixes. Hobbyists have to accept the necessity of QTing if they plan on having fish in their tank, especially if they have LR or reef tanks.
You can set up a viable QT with a large square/regtanlar rubbermaid. Either moving LR to the rubbermaid, or the fish. LR will fair better in a rubbermaid.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Beth
The temp raising only speeds up the life cycle, but 82 really won't make a difference and anything beyond that starts to be inappropriate for marine tanks. Anyhow, speeding up the life cycle won't do much good if you ultimately don't treat the ich. It will only come back in a couple of week, perhaps even stronger than before, and more resistent to higher temps.
If you have corals and inverts, you can't fool around with salinity. You can't sacrifice a reef tank for fish, that is why anyone with a reef tank should always QT first.
All you can do is garlic feedings, but that is not going to really work in a situation, like this, where the fish are infested. It is ok as a preventive and an immune boaster.
Unfortunately, there are no easy fixes. Hobbyists have to accept the necessity of QTing if they plan on having fish in their tank, especially if they have LR or reef tanks.
You can set up a viable QT with a large square/regtanlar rubbermaid. Either moving LR to the rubbermaid, or the fish. LR will fair better in a rubbermaid.

yes i have LR, and all that, no corals, just inverts and fish.....and its not neccessarily infesting, like i said its only a few specks right now, 3 days of ick, 4 days total in her new tank....i was wondering i have critter carrier i use to drip acclimate fish/inverts, can that be used as a temp quaratine tank and if so, how long does she need to be in there? or is that gonna disrupt things? i do have a QT set up and running but its not ready for fish, the nitrates are high as well as nitrites, and the water is not ready period.....no its not a glass hydro its a Marineland Plastic..
my tank is 75 gallon, only 20lbs of live rock(big mistake from the beginning but learning now(( which the other 50 lbs. is cycling in my QT tank)) i have about 30 lbs of lava stone and rock, 90 lbs, of crushed coral and fine grade sand, a few handfuls of dead real corals
i have a foxface(no ick) percula(no ick) diamond goby, starfish, coral banded, clean up crew... the only one with ick is the regal... can i do a freshwater dip?? how long what temp., powerheads? air stone?? what can i do here?? i have found a brand of ick remover that does not contain copper and is invert safe, ive heard it works but id rahter not use chemicals, otherwise i have to turn off the skimmer, and remove the carbon and not really wanting to drop my water quality like that but if i have to i will, any suggestions?

 

[beth]

Unfortuantely, once you have introduced ich into your display, it has contaminated the tank. It will attach to your other fish shortly. The only way to get rid of it in your display tank is to remove all the fish and leave the tank fishless for one month.
In other words, treating only the currently effected fish isn't going to produce results.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Beth
Unfortuantely, once you have introduced ich into your display, it has contaminated the tank. It will attach to your other fish shortly. The only way to get rid of it in your display tank is to remove all the fish and leave the tank fishless for one month.
In other words, treating only the currently effected fish isn't going to produce results.

so essentially leave the inverts and clean up crew?? so the star, the gobie, the blue regal, the foxface, the clown out???? man i have put so much into getting these guys in there.........what about the live rock?? or can the star remain??? and maybe this way i can set up more adding rock etc....leaving the inverts and clean up crew but i have no where for these guys to go!!! i have had the fox since he was 2 inches.....he's 5-6 now....come on!!! there has to be another way!!!!!!!!!!!!
blue regal, clownfish, foxface lo, diamond head goby.. thats about 150 bucks in fish!!!!!!! i cant just very well give them up can i???

 

[speg]

- Feed garlic soaked foods
- Buy cleaner shrimp
- Cleaner wrasse
Some products out there claim to take care of ich and also claim to be totally reef safe.. many people argue that they dont work or that they are not totally safe etc etc.. but I mean... those are options left open to you if you really dont wanna do a QT and you feel like trying out these products.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Speg
- Feed garlic soaked foods
- Buy cleaner shrimp
- Cleaner wrasse
Some products out there claim to take care of ich and also claim to be totally reef safe.. many people argue that they dont work or that they are not totally safe etc etc.. but I mean... those are options left open to you if you really dont wanna do a QT and you feel like trying out these products.

speg,
i have a QT cycling, not ready yet, im happy to get rid of my coral banded to get a cleaner shrimp or two, no problem they are more beneficial than a coral banded, but when beth says remove the fish its the only way, im like, the regal is the only one with it and its not severe, AND he is only 4 days old in my tank with ick only 3, man im not gonna get rid of all those fish to do that, if i need to remove them to the temporary QT (when its ready) i will but if just can get that garlic in there and get rid of my coral banded for a couple cleaner shrimp nooooo problem, (even though my coral banded is 6 inches.....he's pretty awesome) because from what i hear is that coral bandeds will kill the cleaner shrimp so its one or the other......
but beth about made me cry, last time i cried i shattered my growth plate in my ankle when i was 15,
there has to be a solution other than getting rid of my inhabitants.....

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Speg
- Feed garlic soaked foods
- Buy cleaner shrimp
- Cleaner wrasse
Some products out there claim to take care of ich and also claim to be totally reef safe.. many people argue that they dont work or that they are not totally safe etc etc.. but I mean... those are options left open to you if you really dont wanna do a QT and you feel like trying out these products.
A quick search here will tell you that the in-tank "safe" meds don't work, and are not even always safe.
Biological cleaners may work, but they are just as likely not to work. Garlic won't usally address ich once you have it. It is somewhat effective as a preventative.
Also, though starfish are called starfish, they are actually inverts.

 

[beth]

carshark, you can try the garlic method. Freshly minced garlic, FRESH, not bottled, perserving the juices and having meaty foods soak up the juice for the fish to then eat. Then target feed your fish with a turkey baster this....try 3x a day.
You may get lucky, but in the meatime, think of the alternative. You could move your rocks and inverts into a large 30 gal rubbermaid, rather than moving your fish, and then do hyposalinity safely in your display tank. You need a quality glass hydrometer, or, preferably, a refractometer. If I were you, I would start conditioning an adequate QT full blown disease outbreak which is very likely to come.
A refractometer is something all of us should get, imo. Accurate salt mix is, afterall, the very life of your marine animals.

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by carshark
but beth about made me cry.....

Sorry about that, but this hobby is not for the faint of heart!

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Beth
Sorry about that, but this hobby is not for the faint of heart!

lol i wasnt being literal.....dont be so harsh sheesh!!! thank you very much for your advice i appreciate it very much
i forgot to mention i am gonna set up a temporary QT in a 5 gal hex......i forgot i had it!!!!! it is only very very temporary, for this specific situation.. ill just bare bottom it, and use an air stone and a sponge filter.....and of course a heater, but besides that can you think of anything else i can do for the 5 gal. hex??? oh yeah of course she is only 2-3 inches big so she'll be fine for a couple weeks until i get her under control...and by that time ill have my big QT up and running great.....any other advice would be very appreciative.. im on the way to the LFS to get some copper....and remember if im lucky since it is in the first 4 days of the outbreak hopefully she is the only one in the tank with it so far.......
Also, though starfish are called starfish, they are actually inverts.
Reply With Quote
i know thats why i was worried about inverts........i know iknow

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by carshark
lol i wasnt being literal.....dont be so harsh sheesh!!! thank you very much for your advice i appreciate it very much
i forgot to mention i am gonna set up a temporary QT in a 5 gal hex......i forgot i had it!!!!! it is only very very temporary, for this specific situation.. ill just bare bottom it, and use an air stone and a sponge filter.....and of course a heater, but besides that can you think of anything else i can do for the 5 gal. hex??? oh yeah of course she is only 2-3 inches big so she'll be fine for a couple weeks until i get her under control...and by that time ill have my big QT up and running great.....any other advice would be very appreciative.. im on the way to the LFS to get some copper....and remember if im lucky since it is in the first 4 days of the outbreak hopefully she is the only one in the tank with it so far.......
Also, though starfish are called starfish, they are actually inverts.
Reply With Quote
i know thats why i was worried about inverts........i know iknow

Actually, I was just joking, sorta, with the "faint of heart" comment.
I would advise against what I think you are planning. An airstonel is so inapproprite for marine fish. Your fish would be dead shortly if that is what you planned to do.
Why don't you try the garlic thing....and then, in the meantime, think about setting up a viable QT for fish, or your rock. Try reading my posts in the FAQ Thread in the disease forum on ich, hyposalinity and QT.

 

[speg]

Originally Posted by Beth
A quick search here will tell you that the in-tank "safe" meds don't work, and are not even always safe.
Biological cleaners may work, but they are just as likely not to work. Garlic won't usally address ich once you have it. It is somewhat effective as a preventative.
Also, though starfish are called starfish, they are actually inverts.
Firstly - notice I said nothing about them being a sure thing.. and pointed out that people do not think they work. By saying that 'they just dont work and its 100% positive' is possibly not true. I am giving this guy other possible options.
Secondly - I agree that cleaner shrimp/wrasse may or may not work, cleaner shrimp usually lose their taste for parasites if they have been sitting in a LFS eating lovely prepaired foods and sometimes tank raised fish will not go to them for cleaning services because they do not know to. A cleaner wrasse x 2 can usually help ich unless the ich is really out of control and is too much for the wrasses to deal with.. some people do not like the use of cleaner wrasse for aquarium use because they feel it hurts the environment by removing these helpful fish from cleaning stations in the wild.
Thirdly - I had a few fish with ich and I tried the garlic soaked into brine shrimp over a period of two weeks and tried to increase the quality of my water as much as possible, water changes, added a skimmer, etc and the ich is now undetectable. I am not saying my fish are CURED, but the ich is not harming the fish.. I am sure if my fish become stressed that i'll see ich again... and I plan to do the same treatments.
Fourthly - Starfish should not even be called Starfish because they are truely 'Sea stars' =c)
Fifthly - I was curious... my brother wants to do copper for his ich in a small tank that has been cycled has live sand and rock.. he knows the rock/sand will be useless as a biological filter.. he also runs carbon.. now you should remove carbon when using copper - yes? If he removes the carbon and the copper kills his bacteria.... how does he keep his water clean besides water changes? Or is that all there is?

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Speg
Fifthly - I was curious... my brother wants to do copper for his ich in a small tank that has been cycled has live sand and rock.. he knows the rock/sand will be useless as a biological filter.. he also runs carbon.. now you should remove carbon when using copper - yes? If he removes the carbon and the copper kills his bacteria.... how does he keep his water clean besides water changes? Or is that all there is?
Why would he want to do this when there is a much safer, viable, just as effective alternative--hyposalinity. Just remove the rocks to a dedicated rubbermaid with a PH or 2 for water movement, then hypo the infected tank. The LS should be fine, but if he has any sand fauna, such as nasses or sand sifting stars, they should be removed [obviously]. Hypo will not kill the biofilter. He can preserved his rock, keep biofilter, treat fish. Win-win, in my book.
As for copper treatment, yes carbon can not be used as it will extract the medication. Copper really can only be effective and safe in rockless/sandless tanks, otherwise those porous things will absorb the very medication [copper] that you need to treat the fish, making the treatment ineffective and the procedure, which requires exact precision, unstable.
As for giving people "options", I have always felt that it would not be right for me, as a moderator here and someone who hobbyist turn to for help with sick fish, to mislead others by listing all the alternatives [including all the ones that really aren't very effective]. I doubt anybody would take me seriously if I did that. Anyway, I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to waste time with something that I feel is pointless, and could even possibly be harmful to their tank. Carshark’s situation is hardly unique. Its my responsibility to tell him, and others who find themselves is this predicament, the reality of the situation and offer a real solution, not a pipe dream snake-oil treatment.

 

[speg]

Originally Posted by Beth
Why would he want to do this when there is a much safer, viable, just as effective alternative--hyposalinity. Just remove the rocks to a dedicated rubbermaid with a PH or 2 for water movement, then hypo the infected tank. The LS should be fine, but if he has any sand fauna, such as nasses or sand sifting stars, they should be removed [obviously]. Hypo will not kill the biofilter. He can preserved his rock, keep biofilter, treat fish. Win-win, in my book.

Why? I dunno.. I spent at least a hour explaining to him his options in a QT tank he has. I told him I just got a refractometer and thats like the hard part of doing hypo (hard part is saving the money for one!)... but he still feels copper is what he wants to do

You dont know my family they're...... interesting.

 

[beth]

Well, put him on here and let him read my comments. Surely I have been convincing enough! LOL