Repairing TV after lightning strike- Need help!

[bionicarm]

I'm not talking about these "Surge suppressor power strips". Those devices have always been a "hit or miss" when it comes to a direct lightning strike. I've built numerous data centers where there's always a large copper cable that is tied to Earth ground. However, every single computer device is connected to a UPS. I have yet to lose any equipment due to brown outs, power surges, or lightning strikes at any facility that has a commercial-rated UPS.
As for my home protection? I have 750VA - 1.5KVA UPS's on every computer, router, and piece of A/V equipment I own. The only time I've replaced any of that equipment was because I wanted later technology, or there was simply a hardware failure that wasn't related to an electrical spike. Like you said, large appliances have their own surge suppression. However, I have seen cases where everything that was plugged into an AC Outlet in a home that took a direct hit got fried - dishwasher, toaster, hair dryers, lamps, etc. Most damages of electrical devices occur when there's a surge from the power company. Direct lightning strikes to a home are rare. Most occur within several feet of the home, and travel through the power lines entering the home.
"Whole house surge suppression" is called a ligtning rod driven down into the ground several feet. But that device does no good when your local power goes off for 3 - 5 seconds, then comes immediately back on. Do that a couple times in a row, and a whole house supression device won't do anything to protect a device plugged into an AC Outlet.

 

[monsinour]

I agree with Bionic here. APC UPSes are great and really work wonders. I have seen a single APC unit protect a server room at a nursing home from a lightning strike where all the other PCs werent using the APC devices and they all fried. At that time the company I worked for changed policy to have a small APC UPS on every single electronic device.
My parents house in TN has been struck by lightning thrice and the 2 trees that had in the front yard were both struck by lightning. The first time the home owners insurance paid for repairs and replacements. The second time, due to no proper surge proction measures in place, their insurance only paid for half. The third time, after installing APC units on everything (including the fridge and freezer) not only did the home owners insurance pay for everything, they also received a little bit from APC. I think it was enough to replace the APC units they had installed. When that 3rd hit happened, the only thing that needed to be replaced was the paint and carpet where the lightning hit the house. All of thier electronic devices were saved by the APC UPSes. I swear by them. LOL, its good to know that their fridge and freezer will continue to work during a power outage for almost an hour.
edit: Oh yea, stay completely away from anything that says Tripp Lyte or however its spelled. Those are the biggest pieces of carp I have ever seen.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help#post_3404192
As stated already, they won't do much for a direct lightning strike. I don't care what people will tell you. Some of the higher end protectors, like Monster claim to. And I've seen it suck up some pretty significant surges. But you just have to cross your fingers and pray. Also, those promises of protection, and reimbursement, well, good luck...
They make some nice stuff.
Where people get burned with APC's Equipment Protection Policy, is they don't fill out the registration form as defined in the agreement. Most people just ignore or throw the cards away:
Eligibility for coverage under the Equipment Protection Policy:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
You must register the product by returning to APC the warranty card provided with the product within 10 days of purchase. All information must be filled in, and you should retain a copy for your records. The warranty card must clearly identify the types of electronic equipment that will be plugged into the APC product for which protection under this policy is claimed. All connected equipment must be UL or CSA approved.
[*]
The APC product must be plugged into properly wired and grounded outlets; no extension cords, adapters, other ground wires, or electrical connections may be used, with the sole exception of other standard APC 120 volt products. The installation must not include power protection products made by any manufacturer other than APC. The installation must comply with all applicable electrical and safety codes set forth pursuant to the National Electrical Code (NEC).
Any claim under the Equipment Protection Policy must be made within 10 days of the date of alleged damage to the connected equipment.
[/list type=decimal]

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404227
I agree with Bionic here. APC UPSes are great and really work wonders. I have seen a single APC unit protect a server room at a nursing home from a lightning strike where all the other PCs werent using the APC devices and they all fried. At that time the company I worked for changed policy to have a small APC UPS on every single electronic device.
My parents house in TN has been struck by lightning thrice and the 2 trees that had in the front yard were both struck by lightning. The first time the home owners insurance paid for repairs and replacements. The second time, due to no proper surge proction measures in place, their insurance only paid for half. The third time, after installing APC units on everything (including the fridge and freezer) not only did the home owners insurance pay for everything, they also received a little bit from APC. I think it was enough to replace the APC units they had installed. When that 3rd hit happened, the only thing that needed to be replaced was the paint and carpet where the lightning hit the house. All of thier electronic devices were saved by the APC UPSes. I swear by them. LOL, its good to know that their fridge and freezer will continue to work during a power outage for almost an hour.
edit: Oh yea, stay completely away from anything that says Tripp Lyte or however its spelled. Those are the biggest pieces of carp I have ever seen.
I think you need to take a deep breath and carefully re read what you just wrote.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404230
Where people get burned with APC's Equipment Protection Policy, is they don't fill out the registration form as defined in the agreement. Most people just ignore or throw the cards away:
Eligibility for coverage under the Equipment Protection Policy:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
You must register the product by returning to APC the warranty card provided with the product within 10 days of purchase. All information must be filled in, and you should retain a copy for your records. The warranty card must clearly identify the types of electronic equipment that will be plugged into the APC product for which protection under this policy is claimed. All connected equipment must be UL or CSA approved.
[*]
The APC product must be plugged into properly wired and grounded outlets; no extension cords, adapters, other ground wires, or electrical connections may be used, with the sole exception of other standard APC 120 volt products. The installation must not include power protection products made by any manufacturer other than APC. The installation must comply with all applicable electrical and safety codes set forth pursuant to the National Electrical Code (NEC).
Any claim under the Equipment Protection Policy must be made within 10 days of the date of alleged damage to the connected equipment.
[/list type=decimal]
I have a friend with like 8 external hard drives on his computer and he uses those on everything. In my neighborhood we have underground utilities which makes it a lot less likely a lightning strike will ever hit the power.
Personally I've lost more equipment to brown outs than surges. Had 2 different TV's die when the lights dimmed.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help#post_3404206
Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27
As stated already, they won't do much for a direct lightning strike. I don't care what people will tell you. Some of the higher end protectors, like Monster claim to. And I've seen it suck up some pretty significant surges.


Where are spec numbers for the joules it absorbs? Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules did that Monster absorb?
Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling similar products for obscenely high profits. For example, all speaker wire has polarity. If you connect a speaker end to the amp, and the amp end to a speaker, then sound is perverted. And so Monster sold $7 speaker wire carefully marked with the amp and speaker ends ... for $70. Many consumers said they could hear a difference. If Monster is selling it, then suspect the worst also from those other manufacturers. The OP had a protector similar to the Monster. And suffered damage. Do you recommend he spend tens of times more money for the equivalent product from Monster? Or obtain what has been used and is well proven for over 100 years.
I have never seen an adjacent protector do effective protection. But I have seen them earth surges destructively through a network of powered off computers. We engineers must learn why damage happens to avert it. Power strips literally earthed surges through two adjacent computers. We replaced every surge damaged semiconductor to make all computers working. Traced the path of that lightning strike to earth. Those power strip protectors bypassed superior protection inside two computers. Earthed that surge through other powered off computers. Did protection as even Monster said it would do. But then we don't listen to hearsay. Read what the manufacturer spec numbers say. Learn how surges do damage. The science is well defined for over 100 years.
How many joules does that Monster claim to absorb? How does the Monster make destructive surges (hundreds of thousands of joules) just disappear? Honest recommendations come with facts and numbers. Where are those Monster numbers that claim protection from each type of surge? Many type of surges exist. Where are spec numbers that claim to absorb hundreds of thousands of joules?
I'm not sure what is going on with your fonts. But I don't remember, what they claim. It has been several years since selling electrons. But Ive long been of the opinion that I'm not going to go out and drop $$ in-case lightning strikes. HOWEVER, I have seen and replaced several surge protectors over the years, seen them fried, and stuff behind them still ok. Vs their competitors.
But I'm not sure why what I said so offensive, that I deserved such an acrimonious response.
"I've been using APC products for years, and have had a direct lightning strike on my house. It completely fried my UPS's, but none of the devices plugged into those units were harmed." Is no more informative than what I posted.

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help#post_3404216
So what are some of these effective solutions so we can look into them since surge suppresion/diversion doesn't work.
Krista: I think it's fairly safe to say that if your apartment gets hit by lightning you're pretty much screwed. When we were in our apartment I think it cost us about $35 a month for renters insurance for about $30-$40k worth of coverage. It's worth it, especially in apartments incase of fire, theft or an act of God. Pay your detuctable, get yourself some new stuff.
I know I'm pretty much screwed, and I do have renter's insurance. I was just trying to figure out what I could have done differently to protect my last computer from lightning. I lost my last computer, cable modem, router, and ethernet cables due to a thunderstorm. This is the first time I ever had a malfunction like this.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404267
I know I'm pretty much screwed, and I do have renter's insurance. I was just trying to figure out what I could have done differently to protect my last computer from lightning. I lost my last computer, cable modem, router, and ethernet cables due to a thunderstorm. This is the first time I ever had a malfunction like this.
Unplug your computer power cable and any other cable connected to your computer, when thunderstorms come.

 

[gemmy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27 http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404297
Unplug your computer power cable and any other cable connected to your computer, when thunderstorms come.
It was a freak pop up storm. I only had time to unplug my tank stuff.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404302
It was a freak pop up storm. I only had time to unplug my tank stuff.
They make surge suppressors you can install on your main breaker box that supposedly protect any plug that goes to the breaker in the box. Cost about $100. But as others have said, if you did get a lightning strike that hits by your house, it can also come in via the Coax cable from your provider (or CAT5 cable if you have DSL). So your TV boxes and cable router would be susceptible to hits even with a "whole house suppressor". I have an APC UPS on my router, and the last time we had a power outage, I still had internet and TV signals. The battery kept the router up for over an hour. I could still use my computer to get weather updates, and the family watched the TV with all the lights out.

 

[westom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemmy
I know I'm pretty much screwed, and I do have renter's insurance. I was just trying to figure out what I could have done differently to protect my last computer from lightning. I lost my last computer, cable modem, router, and ethernet cables due to a thunderstorm. This is the first time I ever had a malfunction like this.
Everyone has solutions based in over 100 years of well proven science. Let's start with the OP's TV failure. He had a same protector circuit found in any APC UPS or Monster power strips. He had damage because his protector did what manufacture spec sheets said it would do. Same protection that both APC and the even higher profit center Monster claim.
A surge seeks earth ground. If that current is permitted anywhere inside, then current hunts for earth ground destructively via appliances. For example it may hit both a TV and VCR on the same power strip. Power strip does no protection. The surge found a better path to earth via the VCR. So voltage increases as necessary to blow through that VCR. VCR protected the TV. 2000 or 20,000 amps will flow not matter what tries to stop it. Voltage will increase as necessary to blow through some of the best protectors inside every house – circuits inside every appliance.
Dr Schneider describes effective protectors:
> Section 6.4: WHEN SHOULD YOU WORRY ABOUT LIGHTNING?
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. Once a threatening surge is detected, a
> lightning protection device grounds the incoming signal connection point of the equipment being protected.
> Thus, redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least resistance (impedance) to ground where it is
> absorbed.
> Any lightning protection device must be composed of two "subsystems," a switch which is essentially some
> type of switching circuitry and a good ground connection-to allow dissipation of the surge energy.
Two components in a system: a ‘protector’ and ‘protection’. A protector is a connecting device. For some incoming wires, no protector is needed. A wire does a better connection. Therefore, TV cable, satellite dish, and AC neutral wire are best when connected to protection via a wire.
Everyone's telephone has always had a 'whole house' protector installed for free. Find it where telco wires meet yours. How effective is that protector? Well, how good is the earth ground that you have installed?
The protection device is earth ground. Only earth ground does protection. If any wire enters without first connecting to protection (earth), then the surge is just like the OP's. Hunting for earth destructively via his TV.
As the NIST said:
> The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.
Your phone and cable already have best protection (if properly installed). But two of three AC wires do not. If any wire enters without first connecting to earth, than ALL protection is compromised. Previously posted were examples of more responsible companies who sell 'whole house' protectors including ABB, Siemens, Leviton, Square D, General Electric, Keison, and Intermatic. Everyone that any 'guy' would know for their quality. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Many may have not clue what is posted here until touching one. Then notice what it has that the APC UPS or Monster do not. If has a dedicated wire so that surges can be connected as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground.
Any protector without a dedicated ground wire is what the NIST called "useless". That applies to an APC UPS. Why do building wide UPSes do surge protection? They have that wire necessary for the short (low impedance) connection to earth.
Some protection systems have no protector. But every protection system always has one item - single point earth ground. Where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly. Protector from more responsible companies are effective ONLY if connected that short to earth. Because no protector - not one - does protection. Because, as Dr Schneider says (and the OP learned the hard way), a protector is a switch that connects to earth. Or that protector is "useless" as the NIST said.
Apartment dwellers can buy one. Have the landlord install it so that even a landlords appliances are protected. Otherwise, án apartment dweller goes to his AC utility for their protector that is mounted behind the electric meter. Other solutions exist. But in every case, an effective protector is located to make that low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth.
/> If I only recommended something, then I was lying. I provided solutions AND demonstrate why those solutions have been the only solutions for over 100 years. Protection is always - as in forever - always about where energy dissipates. Protectors that do not claim protection (ie APC, Monster) will not even discuss earthing. Will not discuss where hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear. Because, a protector (all protectors) is only as effective as its earth ground. So Superior products

 

[2quills]

Again I'll ask you to show me this cost effective solution sold at lowes. I assume you're talking about the whole house surge protector which is an Eaton Cuttler-Hammer product sold for $61.93?. I'm over on Eaton's website now and can't seem to find any info on how many joules it absorbs/diverts to ground. Perhaps you could help me out with that?
Edit: NM, it says 50,000 amps. Maybe I'll look into installing one of these. It makes more sense to me that a whole house protector would be better since being installed at the panel it could probably achieve an easier/truer path to ground. For $60 why not.

 

[westom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
Again I'll ask you to show me this cost effective solution sold at lowes. I assume you're talking about the whole house surge protector which is an Eaton Cuttler-Hammer product sold for $61.93?.
Go into Lowes. An internet price is usually higher. And these IT people are always changing their URLs for reasons that mystify me.
Protectors that do not have earth ground must absorb surges. What did Dr Schneider say an effective protector does?
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. Once a threatening surge is detected, a
> lightning protection device grounds the incoming [wire] ...
> Thus, redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least resistance (impedance) to ground where it is
> absorbed.
Stated was the number you should be viewing on effective protectors. How many amps does it conduct? A lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. So that the protector is still functional decades later. BTW, this is all probably new to you. If like me and my peers, you will not start understanding until maybe the third reread. I am simply reposting what was already explained.
You are assuming a 'whole house' protector does what profit center protectors claim to do. An effective protector does not absorb surges. In fact, a 100,000 amp protector absorbs even LESS energy. That's what better protectors do. Absorb less energy.
r />
Where are hundreds of thousands of joules absorbed? A protector is simple dumb science. What should have most of your attention? What does protection? Again, Dr Schneider said it. 'Art' of protection (and what has most of your attention) is single point earth ground. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate so that the OP's TV and his ineffective protector are not harmed? Earth ground. Go touch the 50,000 amp Cutler-Hammer protector in Lowes. Then go look at the various earthing electrodes and bare copper wire. You may need and should be asking about them. Since those items are technically more complicated - those are the 'art' of this science.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404358

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
Again I'll ask you to show me this cost effective solution sold at lowes. I assume you're talking about the whole house surge protector which is an Eaton Cuttler-Hammer product sold for $61.93?.
Go into Lowes. An internet price is usually higher. And these IT people are always changing their URLs for reasons that mystify me.
Protectors that do not have earth ground must absorb surges. What did Dr Schneider say an effective protector does?
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. Once a threatening surge is detected, a
> lightning protection device grounds the incoming [wire] ...
> Thus, redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least resistance (impedance) to ground where it is
> absorbed.
Stated was the number you should be viewing on effective protectors. How many amps does it conduct? A lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. So that the protector is still functional decades later. BTW, this is all probably new to you. If like me and my peers, you will not start understanding until maybe the third reread. I am simply reposting what was already explained.
You are assuming a 'whole house' protector does what profit center protectors claim to do. An effective protector does not absorb surges. In fact, a 100,000 amp protector absorbs even LESS energy. That's what better protectors do. Absorb less energy.
Where are hundreds of thousands of joules absorbed? A protector is simple dumb science. What should have most of your attention? What does protection? Again, Dr Schneider said it. 'Art' of protection (and what has most of your attention) is single point earth ground. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate so that the OP's TV and his ineffective protector are not harmed? Earth ground. Go touch the 50,000 amp Cutler-Hammer protector in Lowes. Then go look at the various earthing electrodes and bare copper wire. You may need and should be asking about them. Since those items are technically more complicated - those are the 'art' of this science.
Yep, I ended up finding the 50,000kA in the pdf. Thanks. It doesn't sound like an all bad idea to install one on the panel.

 

[bionicarm]

These whole house supressor are great if all you're worried about are lightning strikes. They do nothing for brown outs, or if you have sudden surges in your power grid. You'll lose more electronic equipment to brown outs that you would in a lifetime of lightning strikes.
Want to test these things? Install one, then go outside and pop your main breaker on and off about 5 times in a quick but random succession (Turn it off and back on real quick. Wait 10 seconds, do it again. Wait 5 seconds, the turn it off, wait 5 seconds, turn it on., etc.). Do this with all your computers and A/V equipment turned on. Wait an hour or so, and do it again. Let me know if any of your equipment fails to power up after doing this a few times more.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404464
These whole house supressor are great if all you're worried about are lightning strikes. They do nothing for brown outs, or if you have sudden surges in your power grid. You'll lose more electronic equipment to brown outs that you would in a lifetime of lightning strikes.
Want to test these things? Install one, then go outside and pop your main breaker on and off about 5 times in a quick but random succession (Turn it off and back on real quick. Wait 10 seconds, do it again. Wait 5 seconds, the turn it off, wait 5 seconds, turn it on., etc.). Do this with all your computers and A/V equipment turned on. Wait an hour or so, and do it again. Let me know if any of your equipment fails to power up after doing this a few times more.
So would it be feasible to install a whole house protector along with a couple of small apc ups units for certain equipment?

 

[westom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm
These whole house supressor are great if all you're worried about are lightning strikes. They do nothing for brown outs, or if you have sudden surges in your power grid. You'll lose more electronic equipment to brown outs that you would in a lifetime of lightning strikes.
Brownouts are destructive to motorized appliances. Therefore a utility provides voltage within defined specs. Or cuts power off. Motorized appliances (refrigerator, furnace, air conditioner, washing machine) need that protection.
What part inside electronics is damaged by a brownout? Long before the original IBM PC existed, international design standards required electronics to not be damaged by low voltage. In fact, one standard is blunt about it. For all low voltages, this phrase is in capital letters: No Damage Region. No part is damaged by a brownout.
However if low voltage is destructive, then each overstressed part is listed here.
If brownouts are destructive, then so is power off. Power off is nothing more than a slowly decreasing voltage to all parts.
Engineers routinely test all electronics at low voltages. To learn how much below spec electronics will still operate. And then learn what voltage electronics simply does a power off. Damage never happens due to brownouts. Tom MacIntyre on 7 Sept 2001 describes this test:
> We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit
> I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and
> under-voltage situations. A linear supply (many TV's) will start to lose its regulation from 100 volts down to
> maybe 90, and the set will shut off by 75 volts AC or so.
> Switching supplies (more and more TV's, and all monitors I've ever seen), on the other hand, are different.
>... the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout
> wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.
Not die as in damage. Die as in power off. Because that is what all electronics do during brownouts. All electronics are happy and fine even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Then do a normal power off if voltage gets too low. How often do your bulbs dim that low?
Popular urban myths are based in observation without first learning facts. A same thought process that proved spontaneous reproduction. We were all taught in elementary school science about spontaneous reproduction. Observation alone results in junk science conclusions. If brownouts do damage, then a component damaged by that a brownout is defined even by numbers from its datasheet. Good luck. We routinely apply brownouts to all new designs. Brownouts threaten electric motors. Brownouts damage electronics in urban myths.

 

[westom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
So would it be feasible to install a whole house protector along with a couple of small apc ups units for certain equipment?
Install a UPS to protect appliances threatened by a brownout - the refrigerator, air conditioner, and washing machine. Or use a UPS for its only intended function - to provide temporary and very 'dirty' power so that even unsaved data can be saved. If a UPS has some other function, then manufacturer spec numbers will define it.
Either a surge is inside hunting destructively for earth. And nothing stops that surge. Or that surge is harmlessly connected to earth outside the building. A UPS connects appliances directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the protection? The surge is connected directly to the appliance.
Again, read manufacturer’s datasheets. Its entire protection is typically hundreds of joules. Near zero protection. But just enough above zero to claim 100% protection in advertising and popular myths. An earthed 'whole house' protector is required to even protect that UPS. Then a UPS can provide time to save unsaved data.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by westom http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404510
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
So would it be feasible to install a whole house protector along with a couple of small apc ups units for certain equipment?
Install a UPS to protect appliances threatened by a brownout - the refrigerator, air conditioner, and washing machine. Or use a UPS for its only intended function - to provide temporary and very 'dirty' power so that even unsaved data can be saved. If a UPS has some other function, then manufacturer spec numbers will define it.
Either a surge is inside hunting destructively for earth. And nothing stops that surge. Or that surge is harmlessly connected to earth outside the building. A UPS connects appliances directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the protection? The surge is connected directly to the appliance.
Again, read manufacturer’s datasheets. Its entire protection is typically hundreds of joules. Near zero protection. But just enough above zero to claim 100% protection in advertising and popular myths. An earthed 'whole house' protector is required to even protect that UPS. Then a UPS can provide time to save unsaved data.
Well I understand what you're saying about 100% protection being a myth. But I'm of the mindset that some protection is better than none. Even with the surge suppression strips that I have most of my equipment on now that are supposed to be good up to a few thousand joules. Would the addition of a whole house protector along with those strips be fairly descent protection? I know my circuits are grounded and I can always test if there is any doubts but I've already replaced the outlets in this house when we moved in and I know I don't have any breaks to ground. Even if I had to run a conductor from each box to the panel and test for continuity to be a 100% sure then I could do that.. All I'm looking to know is what is the best protection from storms and brown outs. And it sounds like a whole house protector, keeping my current strips, and maybe installing a ups or two is the ticket. Who knows, maybe I'll get crazy and install a lighting rod on the house and make sure that it's properly earthed. But to be honest, that's what we have insurance for.

 

[westom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
Even with the surge suppression strips that I have most of my equipment on now that are supposed to be good up to a few thousand joules. Would the addition of a whole house protector along with those strips be fairly descent protection? I know my circuits are grounded and I can always test if there is any doubts but I've already replaced the outlets in this house when we moved in and I know I don't have any breaks to ground.
First, understand what you are protecting from . Destructive surges occur typically once every seven years. What is that number for your neighborhood? Survey neighbors that have at least ten years experience.
Protect from lightning striking the building - lightning rod. Protect from lightning directly striking appliances - earthing a 'whole house' protector. Second is more frequent since wires all over the neighborhood connect to your appliances. That solution costs about $1 per appliance.
Second, the IEEE Standard entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding' defines how much protection is created by spending $1 per appliance for a 'whole house' protector:
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted to a path which will,
> if well designed and constructed, not result in damage. Even this means is not positive,
> providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. ...
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke
> per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...
Plug-in protectors only protect from a type of surge that is typically not destructive. May add another 0.2% protection. Are ineffective if the 'whole house' protector is not installed. Can even make appliance damage easier. Have a history of creating house fires when not protected by one 'whole house' protector.
Whitneyd88 on 21 Mar 2011 in "My house caught on fire and my tank busted" describes a fire created by a plug-in protector. That was extinguished when the tank broke. That flood put out the flames:
> A plug caught fire in my room (which was plugged into a surge protecter) it was caused by a power surge and caused my tank to burst.
Third, apparently you are still missing some very key points. Grounding in wall receptacle is not earth ground. If any wire enters without first connecting to earth ground (not safety ground), then protection is compromised. Protection is about earthing the surge. Not about earthing any appliance. Best protection can exist even with no safety grounds. A 1930 vintage house (two wire circuits) has same protection IF earth ground both meets and exceeds post 1990 code. Safety grounding appliances and power strips does nothing for protection. Earth the surge (not appliances) to have protection. If not earthed outside, then your only protection is that already inside appliances. No power strip will increase that protection AND may compromise it.
If an appliance was earth grounded (instead of safety grounded), then appliance damage is made easier.
If I have not said it before, this is completely new. Therefore those posts will not make sense until at least the third reread. New stuff takes me that many readings just to begin comprehension.
The difference between safety ground and earth ground should have been obvious from the so many posts that say how protectors work.. Even the expression 'less than 10 feet' should have made that obvious. Every foot shorter significantly increases protection.
But you have a problem. You must unlearn many popular myths and advertising lies. Learn that safety ground and earth ground are electrically different. Learn why a 'whole house' and plug-in protectors are two completely different devices. One must somehow absorb energy. The other works better by absorbing even *less* energy.
Fourth, brownouts do not damage electronics. Another urban myth made popular by "observation not tempered by how electricity and electronics work". The same logic that also proved spontaneous reproduction.