bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by westom http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404523
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
Even with the surge suppression strips that I have most of my equipment on now that are supposed to be good up to a few thousand joules. Would the addition of a whole house protector along with those strips be fairly descent protection? I know my circuits are grounded and I can always test if there is any doubts but I've already replaced the outlets in this house when we moved in and I know I don't have any breaks to ground.
First, understand what you are protecting from . Destructive surges occur typically once every seven years. What is that number for your neighborhood? Survey neighbors that have at least ten years experience.
Protect from lightning striking the building - lightning rod. Protect from lightning directly striking appliances - earthing a 'whole house' protector. Second is more frequent since wires all over the neighborhood connect to your appliances. That solution costs about $1 per appliance.
Second, the IEEE Standard entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding' defines how much protection is created by spending $1 per appliance for a 'whole house' protector:
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted to a path which will,
> if well designed and constructed, not result in damage. Even this means is not positive,
> providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. ...
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke
> per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...
Plug-in protectors only protect from a type of surge that is typically not destructive. May add another 0.2% protection. Are ineffective if the 'whole house' protector is not installed. Can even make appliance damage easier. Have a history of creating house fires when not protected by one 'whole house' protector.
Whitneyd88 on 21 Mar 2011 in "My house caught on fire and my tank busted" describes a fire created by a plug-in protector. That was extinguished when the tank broke. That flood put out the flames:
> A plug caught fire in my room (which was plugged into a surge protecter) it was caused by a power surge and caused my tank to burst.
Third, apparently you are still missing some very key points. Grounding in wall receptacle is not earth ground. If any wire enters without first connecting to earth ground (not safety ground), then protection is compromised. Protection is about earthing the surge. Not about earthing any appliance. Best protection can exist even with no safety grounds. A 1930 vintage house (two wire circuits) has same protection IF earth ground both meets and exceeds post 1990 code. Safety grounding appliances and power strips does nothing for protection. Earth the surge (not appliances) to have protection. If not earthed outside, then your only protection is that already inside appliances. No power strip will increase that protection AND may compromise it.
If an appliance was earth grounded (instead of safety grounded), then appliance damage is made easier.
If I have not said it before, this is completely new. Therefore those posts will not make sense until at least the third reread. New stuff takes me that many readings just to begin comprehension.
The difference between safety ground and earth ground should have been obvious from the so many posts that say how protectors work.. Even the expression 'less than 10 feet' should have made that obvious. Every foot shorter significantly increases protection.
But you have a problem. You must unlearn many popular myths and advertising lies. Learn that safety ground and earth ground are electrically different. Learn why a 'whole house' and plug-in protectors are two completely different devices. One must somehow absorb energy. The other works better by absorbing even *less* energy.
Fourth, brownouts do not damage electronics. Another urban myth made popular by "observation not tempered by how electricity and electronics work". The same logic that also proved spontaneous reproduction.
Brownouts aren't "urban myths". I've seen the effects of brownouts and surges in the 30+ years I've worked in the electronic and computer industry. I can show you multiple examples of what occurs to electronic equipment that is suceptible to these types of electric variants. Want to see some dirty power? Head to Mexico. I've had Cisco switches and IBM Servers in both the US and Mexico, and in both environments, the equipment wasn't protected by any type of supressor or UPS. I would have twice as many hardware failures in the equipment located in Mexico than I would in the US. So if brownouts and spikes are "urban myths", then why does the equipment fail less often when I simply move that equipment onto a UPS device?
You keep talking about these "$1 suppressors". Exactly what magic do you have that costs only $1? A bleeder resistor? A large ufd capacitor? I honestly don't know what your aversion is to quality UPS devices. If they're such a waste of money, then why does virtually every major Data Center known to exist invest so much time and money installing them, when all they have to do is install this magic $1 supressor that you speak so highly of?
Originally Posted by westom http:///forum/thread/387136/repairing-tv-after-lightning-strike-need-help/20#post_3404523
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills
Even with the surge suppression strips that I have most of my equipment on now that are supposed to be good up to a few thousand joules. Would the addition of a whole house protector along with those strips be fairly descent protection? I know my circuits are grounded and I can always test if there is any doubts but I've already replaced the outlets in this house when we moved in and I know I don't have any breaks to ground.
First, understand what you are protecting from . Destructive surges occur typically once every seven years. What is that number for your neighborhood? Survey neighbors that have at least ten years experience.
Protect from lightning striking the building - lightning rod. Protect from lightning directly striking appliances - earthing a 'whole house' protector. Second is more frequent since wires all over the neighborhood connect to your appliances. That solution costs about $1 per appliance.
Second, the IEEE Standard entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding' defines how much protection is created by spending $1 per appliance for a 'whole house' protector:
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted to a path which will,
> if well designed and constructed, not result in damage. Even this means is not positive,
> providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. ...
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke
> per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...
Plug-in protectors only protect from a type of surge that is typically not destructive. May add another 0.2% protection. Are ineffective if the 'whole house' protector is not installed. Can even make appliance damage easier. Have a history of creating house fires when not protected by one 'whole house' protector.
Whitneyd88 on 21 Mar 2011 in "My house caught on fire and my tank busted" describes a fire created by a plug-in protector. That was extinguished when the tank broke. That flood put out the flames:
> A plug caught fire in my room (which was plugged into a surge protecter) it was caused by a power surge and caused my tank to burst.
Third, apparently you are still missing some very key points. Grounding in wall receptacle is not earth ground. If any wire enters without first connecting to earth ground (not safety ground), then protection is compromised. Protection is about earthing the surge. Not about earthing any appliance. Best protection can exist even with no safety grounds. A 1930 vintage house (two wire circuits) has same protection IF earth ground both meets and exceeds post 1990 code. Safety grounding appliances and power strips does nothing for protection. Earth the surge (not appliances) to have protection. If not earthed outside, then your only protection is that already inside appliances. No power strip will increase that protection AND may compromise it.
If an appliance was earth grounded (instead of safety grounded), then appliance damage is made easier.
If I have not said it before, this is completely new. Therefore those posts will not make sense until at least the third reread. New stuff takes me that many readings just to begin comprehension.
The difference between safety ground and earth ground should have been obvious from the so many posts that say how protectors work.. Even the expression 'less than 10 feet' should have made that obvious. Every foot shorter significantly increases protection.
But you have a problem. You must unlearn many popular myths and advertising lies. Learn that safety ground and earth ground are electrically different. Learn why a 'whole house' and plug-in protectors are two completely different devices. One must somehow absorb energy. The other works better by absorbing even *less* energy.
Fourth, brownouts do not damage electronics. Another urban myth made popular by "observation not tempered by how electricity and electronics work". The same logic that also proved spontaneous reproduction.
Brownouts aren't "urban myths". I've seen the effects of brownouts and surges in the 30+ years I've worked in the electronic and computer industry. I can show you multiple examples of what occurs to electronic equipment that is suceptible to these types of electric variants. Want to see some dirty power? Head to Mexico. I've had Cisco switches and IBM Servers in both the US and Mexico, and in both environments, the equipment wasn't protected by any type of supressor or UPS. I would have twice as many hardware failures in the equipment located in Mexico than I would in the US. So if brownouts and spikes are "urban myths", then why does the equipment fail less often when I simply move that equipment onto a UPS device?
You keep talking about these "$1 suppressors". Exactly what magic do you have that costs only $1? A bleeder resistor? A large ufd capacitor? I honestly don't know what your aversion is to quality UPS devices. If they're such a waste of money, then why does virtually every major Data Center known to exist invest so much time and money installing them, when all they have to do is install this magic $1 supressor that you speak so highly of?
