Researching equipment....need opinions

[pstanley]

I am getting ready to start placing orders for the filtration. What does everybody think about the Aqueon Proflex Model 3 sump and a Quiet One 3000 return pump for a 60 gallon? I will also need a protein skimmer and overflow box that will fit/be compatible. The amount of choices are overwhelming. I like the Proflex because it gives you a lot of customization for either wet/dry or straight sump. They don't seem to give dimensions for the protein skimmer space though. I am looking to stay under $300 for the filter and under $100 for the pump. Opinions welcome. I think I need to start working at work and do less fish tank research Thanks.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3532878
I am getting ready to start placing orders for the filtration. What does everybody think about the Aqueon Proflex Model 3 sump and a Quiet One 3000 return pump for a 60 gallon? I will also need a protein skimmer and overflow box that will fit/be compatible. The amount of choices are overwhelming. I like the Proflex because it gives you a lot of customization for either wet/dry or straight sump. They don't seem to give dimensions for the protein skimmer space though. I am looking to stay under $300 for the filter and under $100 for the pump. Opinions welcome. I think I need to start working at work and do less fish tank research Thanks.

Since you are going to have a sump system...the Octopus brand is awesome, I love mine. the Tunze brand cost a little more, but they are pretty good.

 

[pstanley]

Thanks Flower....I did decide on the Octopus brand skimmer (dependent on my sump space). I kind of worded my initial post incorrectly. I am undecided on which type of sump/return pump to get. I would like one that can function either as a wet/dry or a berlin sump....I am not sure what kind of bio-load I will have as of now.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3532884
Thanks Flower....I did decide on the Octopus brand skimmer (dependent on my sump space). I kind of worded my initial post incorrectly. I am undecided on which type of sump/return pump to get. I would like one that can function either as a wet/dry or a berlin sump....I am not sure what kind of bio-load I will have as of now.

Hi,

Good choice on the skimmer. The SSS 1000 is what I have (small footprint, because I don't have much room in my sump either) PM Acrylic51, Snakeblitz or 2Quills...your return pump has nothing to do with bio-load.

The pump has to be able to lift the water from the sump, in sequence with how fast the overflow lets water drain into the sump. So it all depends on how far the water needs to be pumped, and how fast. While I understand "How" a sump works, I don't know enough to tell you the size you need, in either the overflow or pump.

A power head is different, it is used to create a wave...the life of the ocean is the waves, and it's the life of your SW tank as well. You want the surface to really move, to allow as much oxygen as possible to get into the tanks water. SW has less oxygen then freshwater, so it's very important. You also need the water current to suspend the solid particles, detritus, from settling on the rock and sand so that the filter can remove it from the system.

Design your sump so you can add a filter sock or layer of filter material, for the water to pass through and catch the big stuff...I use a HOB on my 90g for that because I'm disabled, and getting down low to reach the sump is very hard for me. Making or having a small chamber for a refugium is ideal.

Now is also the time to set up a quarantine tank, it will not only keep your display free of parasites and disease, but it will create a time frame for adding new critters. It forces you to wait 3 to 4 weeks between adding them. Too much too soon is the number 1 cause of a tank crash.

To set one up is pretty simple, all you need is a 10g to 20g tank, a small air pump, small HOB filter, a piece of PVC pipe or resin decoration (for the fish to hide and feel secure, and hold down your airline), you don't need substrate, leave the bottom bare. Either put a towel under the tank, or paint the outside of it black on the bottom. Attach the air line via rubberband, to the PVC pipe or decoration, to hold it at the bottom of the tank. Then cycle it just like you do the display, a chunk of raw shrimp, a little pure ammonia (found in the laundry isle at the supermarket) or ghost feed an invisible fish for a while... Please don't use a live fish. Keep a quarantine tank running while you first stock your display tank...then you can break it down, and keep it for later when you need it.

Later on, if you want to add a fish, or need a hospital tank...that little setup will come in handy, you won't need to cycle it, just use some of the filter material from the display, put it in the HOB filter and it's good to go in a pinch. I also always kept stick test strips for only ammonia, I also made sure I had emergency water for a change if I detected any spikes...I never have needed it, but always better safe then sorry. New mixed SW never goes to waste, what I didn't use for the quarantine, I just used for a regular WC on the display.

 

[pstanley]

I did look at the model you are using but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was looking at the Reef Octopus 4 (again, assuming it fits in my sump). Based on all of the research I have done, I think I now have a grasp on how the sump and overflow tie in along with the distance between the two, height difference (head pressure), number of turns, etc. to determine the pump size. I am traveling roughly 18' with a height difference of about 4 feet with 3 90 degree turns. Assuming the overflow I buy is able to handle it, I believe the Quiet One 3000 should be sufficient (if anybody wants to correct me or recommend something better in the same price range, please feel free )

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3532896
I did look at the model you are using but unfortunately it is out of my price range. I was looking at the Reef Octopus 4 (again, assuming it fits in my sump). Based on all of the research I have done, I think I now have a grasp on how the sump and overflow tie in along with the distance between the two, height difference (head pressure), number of turns, etc. to determine the pump size. I am traveling roughly 18' with a height difference of about 4 feet with 3 90 degree turns. Assuming the overflow I buy is able to handle it, I believe the Quiet One 3000 should be sufficient (if anybody wants to correct me or recommend something better in the same price range, please feel free )
Hi,

Just a suggestion...Check out the eheim hobby pumps, that's what I have, and they have a little dial to make it stronger or weaker to adjust to your needs. I have 4ft from floor to tank, and a CPR overflow with a lifter pump (if ever I redo my tank, I will have it drilled, what a bother)

I checked out the Octopus 4...it will do the job just fine.

 

[pstanley]

Thanks for the recommendation...I will give them a look. I like the idea of being able to control the flow if needed. I would like to drill my tank also but my wife would divorce me if I shattered the new tank trying to drill it. It isn't worth the risk lol.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3532939
Thanks for the recommendation...I will give them a look. I like the idea of being able to control the flow if needed. I would like to drill my tank also but my wife would divorce me if I shattered the new tank trying to drill it. It isn't worth the risk lol.

I so understand that...I was always afraid as well. However, after so many mishaps and floods because of the lifter pump, I would take my tank into a Glass place or purchase an already drilled tank. Believe me when given a choice of a broken fish tank and ruined carpet or hard wood flooring...chance the fish tank.

 

[pstanley]

Ok, trying to decide between the mag 7 and mag 9.5 with a 800 GPH overflow. The sump is in a different room so I have a lot of flexibility with head pressure depending on how far off the floor I bring the sump. The only thing I can't control is the 17' of vertical distance and four 90 degree turns. Will the 9.5 be too much or will the 7 work? According to the calculators online, the 7 would be putting out 468 GPH after head loss. The 9.5 would be putting out 726 GPH which is kind of close to my 800 GPH maximum.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533116
Ok, trying to decide between the mag 7 and mag 9.5 with a 800 GPH overflow. The sump is in a different room so I have a lot of flexibility with head pressure depending on how far off the floor I bring the sump. The only thing I can't control is the 17' of vertical distance and four 90 degree turns. Will the 9.5 be too much or will the 7 work? According to the calculators online, the 7 would be putting out 468 GPH after head loss. The 9.5 would be putting out 726 GPH which is kind of close to my 800 GPH maximum.

The pumped height of the water is the "head" and usually the overridding resistance. But long horizontal runs and 90 degree bends do add resistance. I have seen some sites where each 90 degree is so much "head" as well as horizontal runs add so much head. You might take a look for those sites.
My gut feeling is just to go with the more powerful pump. You can always use a bypass to detune it. and the extra flow will probably not hurt anything anyway.
my .02

 

[pstanley]

Thanks again beaslbob. I will be running two powerheads in the tank as well for movement. I just didn't know if 468 GPH would be enough to keep everything running efficiently using the 7. I would rather go smaller if possible to keep the heat down since it will be submersed.

 

[pstanley]

I took your advice and went ahead with the 9.5 rather than the 7. In addition to the bypass that you mentioned, I can also play with the height of the sump to increase or decrease the head pressure as needed. I guess that is one of the benefits of running the sump in a totally different room.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533125
Thanks again beaslbob. I will be running two powerheads in the tank as well for movement. I just didn't know if 468 GPH would be enough to keep everything running efficiently using the 7. I would rather go smaller if possible to keep the heat down since it will be submersed.

I ran my pump in line so you might want to consider that. But that's just. da da
my .02

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3532878
I am getting ready to start placing orders for the filtration. What does everybody think about the Aqueon Proflex Model 3 sump and a Quiet One 3000 return pump for a 60 gallon? I will also need a protein skimmer and overflow box that will fit/be compatible. The amount of choices are overwhelming. I like the Proflex because it gives you a lot of customization for either wet/dry or straight sump. They don't seem to give dimensions for the protein skimmer space though. I am looking to stay under $300 for the filter and under $100 for the pump. Opinions welcome. I think I need to start working at work and do less fish tank research Thanks.

A 60g tank should have a minimum of 5x to 10x the display tanks volume flowing through it per hour. That means anywhere from 300 to 600gph. A Quiet One 3000 seems like a great choice. For one, it runs on a few less watts than other pumps that pump the same gallons per hour. Two, it can compete with all the other pumps, as far as I am concerned. There are better more reliable pumps out there - but you are going to pay a very shiny, very pretty penny for them - and frankly, I prefer to save a little money when I can. Over the years of being an aquarist, you will develop your own preferences for equipment. What we here at saltwater fish can do is to tell you OUR preferences, over years of experience and experimentation. Over time, you will develop your own "sense" of preference.

A sump is a food grade container that holds water and equipment. I'll give you three options that range from dirt cheap, to moderate, to expensive. It's really up to you to make the best decision for your tank, husbandry and skills.

1. Cheap -

Get a rubbermaid or other food grade plastic container that will fit under your tank in the sump area. This container should be about 18 gallons if you choose to pick a pump that is 300-400gph at 6ft of head, or closer to 20-22 gallons if you pick a larger pump. (The quiet one 4000 pump should have about a 20g sump.) The plastic container should be food grade - it will have a triangle somewhere imprinted on it with a number or a letter. Look up the list of types of plastic and find what the acceptable numbers/letters are for food grade. (I don't know them off the top of my head.) Next, by a smaller container that takes up about 1/4th of the inside of the main tub. This will be your live rock rubble housing. Poke holes all in one side of it, about 2" from the bottom of the container. (this is where detritus will settle. It's easy to pick the bucket up and remove the rock and detritus at the same time.) Next, buy an even smaller bin that fits inside the other medium sized bin. Cut a hole out in the lid of the medium sized bin so that the small container will sit inside of it. This small container is your filter housing. It should also have a lid. I like to personally take a bulkhead and cut a hole out of the top of the lid and insert the bulkhead to it, and have flex tubing from the overflow to the drain. It just makes it A LOT easier to take it apart to change the filter media out. This filter basket should be very porous. If you choose to buy a small container that doesn't have any holes, poke holes in only the bottom of the container. This makes sure that all of the water has to pass through the filter media before it reaches the live rock. In the filter basket, you can layer a few layers of polyfiber (quilters batting, Wal-Mart $7.50 per 4x20' rolls) and then add any type of chemical filtration media on top of it.

You remember the medium sized basket that holds the live rock? There should only be one large hole in this container for water to pass through. Let me explain the reasoning - when you put your protein skimmer next to this bucket, you will place the intake of the protein skimmer as close to this opening as possible. This ensures that only "dirty" water is entering the skimmer. The more water that can pass through the skimmer at a time, the better. The middle section can hold all kinds of nice things, like biopellet reactors or phosphate reactors or basically anything else you want. A benefit of having a rubbermaid sump is that you can drill a hole in the side of it to use a float valve as a top off mechanism instead of one of those expensive Auto Top Off Units. I have done this type of setup before, very, very successfully. There is nothing wrong with going cheap. The rubbermaids/plastic containers should cost you right around $50.

You can also get pretty creative with those plastic containers. I have seen some people use those plastic containers with drawers... the top is where water enters, so the top drawer is for mechanical filtration. The middle drawer is for chemical filtration and the bottom drawer is for live rock. Of course, it has to sit in a larger rubbermaid container.

2. Second option... middle ground.

If you don't like the look of rubbermaids and are willing to spend a little extra cash, get yourself a small aquarium - like a 20g long, would be plenty for a 60g. Sumps made out of aquariums are generally baffled, meaning they have "chambers." Glass separates the chambers, and is siliconed in on the sides and (sometimes) the bottom of the sump. The glass is usually siliconed in a over, under, over pattern. A 20g aquarium is usually large enough to have a very small filter section, coupled with a decent sized skimmer section and even a refugium before going to the return pump. The problem of making so many chambers in a 20g long is that by the time you allocate enough space for the other stuff, the return chamber is going to be quite small. So, I recommend keeping it that way, and adding an auto top off system to it. (JBJ makes a good ATO. Aqualifter pumps are awesome!)

3. Pre-built or custom acrylic sumps. (expensive)

You will just have to shop and see. Dimensions, needs, specialty things (like frag racks, probe holders, etc.) are all in the eyes of the beholder. It's what you decide - if you want to spend that much money on potentially something that you could do yourself, then go right ahead. There's no particular brand that I have ever enjoyed more than the other. I think the first pre-built sump that I ever tried was a pro-flex brand sump - and it just had a refugium.
peKerning/>
/>
me="List Number 4"/>
d="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true"
Name="HTML Address"/>
"Table Grid 5"/>
="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List"/>
cked="false" Priority="72" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>
phasis"/>
on Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="Grid Table 5 Dark Accent 4"/>
ority="51"
Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 3"/>

 

[pstanley]

Thanks Snake. I actually ended up going with your option 3 and placed an order. Strangely enough, almost everything I bought was different than I first posted in this thread lol. I went with a Trigger Systems sump, Mag 9.5 pump, Eshopps overflow, and Reef Octopus 4 skimmer. My next step is to run the plumbing, fill it up with fresh water and verify that everything works properly.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533176
Thanks Snake. I actually ended up going with your option 3 and placed an order. Strangely enough, almost everything I bought was different than I first posted in this thread lol. I went with a Trigger Systems sump, Mag 9.5 pump, Eshopps overflow, and Reef Octopus 4 skimmer. My next step is to run the plumbing, fill it up with fresh water and verify that everything works properly.

FWIW and from my experience.
Testing:
1) sump does not flood during power out. (remember the reverse siphon from the pumped return lines)
2) normal operation resume during power return.
3) (and the one I originally forgot to test LOL) If the drain fails (siphon break or drain blockage) the display should not flood.
Setting water level of the display and sump are important. To start out have the display at about an inch below full and the sump half way full. You can then adjust the display level so that the sump does not flood during power out. (be sure to prevent the back siphon from the pumped return lines by either having the return outlets above the water line or small holes pointing down and drilled on the return lines to all air to break the siphon.
then check for normal operation after power return.
then "fail" the overflow. If the display floods before the sump runs dry either/or lower the display water level or the water level in the sump. the latter requires removing water from the system.
And of course just t omake sure repeat all the tests. Hopefully at this point the system will pass all tests.
After you get that all sorted out and it is running again, mark the water level in the sump. From that point on never add water above that line. Like during water changes, topoffs and so on. Any water over that line may result in a display flood should the overflow fail.
Seems complicated but once you do it it makes more sense. LOL
my .02

 

[pstanley]

I saved your testing procedures to my desktop.... I didn't really think about all the details. I just had hoped to fill both up with water and turn them on lol. This may be a stupid question, but once you fill both the sump and display tank as you stated, do you start the siphon/overflow and then have somebody else plug in the return pump immediately afterwards (my sump is in a different room)?

I can't thank the people on this site enough. When I started this process again I felt pretty overwhelmed. I consider my first saltwater tank (back in 2002) a failure. I had nothing but hair algae issues in a small tank full of large predators. I feel much more knowledgeable this time around.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533205
I saved your testing procedures to my desktop.... I didn't really think about all the details. I just had hoped to fill both up with water and turn them on lol. This may be a stupid question, but once you fill both the sump and display tank as you stated, do you start the siphon/overflow and then have somebody else plug in the return pump immediately afterwards (my sump is in a different room)?

I can't thank the people on this site enough. When I started this process again I felt pretty overwhelmed. I consider my first saltwater tank (back in 2002) a failure. I had nothing but hair algae issues in a small tank full of large predators. I feel much more knowledgeable this time around.

Hi,

Everyone has their own way...here is my method of setting the sump water level....

I put all of my pumps on a power strip, that allows me to shut off everything at once when first setting the tank and sump system up....(I kept them on a power strip even after, to create an emergency shut off with a single button.)

Fill your tank, to the level you want...then add enough water to the sump to cover about an inch on the return pump, have your bucket ready to add more water and turn on you system...power strip with shut off button close by...let the system run and keep filling the sump to stay one inch above the return pump...once the water levels and stays that one inch, they are set to run in sequence. Then shut off the system altogether and watch to see how much water goes into the sump. Then fill the sump with water about half way up the tank.

When power is off, the sump will not fill beyond the point you added the water at shut off. The overflow drain will always allow the water to not flow over in the display. Make sure you have a hole just below the water line on the return pipe or hose...to not allow a back syphon when power is off.

Since you have sump in a different room, two people...one to watch the display as you mess with the sump, LOL ... and keep that power strip handy....

 

[pstanley]

Thanks Flower....between you and Snake I think I have it figured out. Now for the next round of questions while I wait for my equipment to arrive

How do you guys make/store your ro/di water? I will initially have to make enough water to fill the tank and sump (my filter makes 75 GPD). I assume I can't make it directly into the tank due to having to mix it with salt prior to avoid messing up the sand in the tank. Do you just make it directly into a 5 gallon plastic bin and mix salt 5 gallons at a time or can I make it into a larger container, mix the salt, and use a utility pump and garden hose to pump it into the tank? I am guessing a lot of it is just a matter of preference...just wanted to find the best way to go about it. When storing water, does it need to be aerated or can it just sit in a plastic bin with a lid?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533254
Thanks Flower....between you and Snake I think I have it figured out. Now for the next round of questions while I wait for my equipment to arrive

How do you guys make/store your ro/di water? I will initially have to make enough water to fill the tank and sump (my filter makes 75 GPD). I assume I can't make it directly into the tank due to having to mix it with salt prior to avoid messing up the sand in the tank. Do you just make it directly into a 5 gallon plastic bin and mix salt 5 gallons at a time or can I make it into a larger container, mix the salt, and use a utility pump and garden hose to pump it into the tank? I am guessing a lot of it is just a matter of preference...just wanted to find the best way to go about it. When storing water, does it need to be aerated or can it just sit in a plastic bin with a lid?

HI,

Again everyone has their own way.

Mine is to keep a plastic 37g garbage can (marked Fish Only)....I fill it but not all the way, I leave room for a few gallons, and put a utility pump on the bottom to churn the water...then I add my salt 1/2 cup at a time... counting to match close to the amount of water my can holds ( I make sure there is more salt mix to water ratio, it's easier to add more RO water then to put salt in and wait another 24 hours. After 24 hours, I check the SG ... then I add a little more water if need to 1 to 2g at a time, I measure the SG again after 1 hour of mixing, I repeat that until I have the correct SG that I want. This also my method of getting my water change ready to do. So the plastic can, utility pump and hose (that I attach to the pump to fill the tank) are part of my fish keeping supplies.

After doing this for so long, I measure that water and salt almost to perfection each time and seldom need to add more then a gallon of water to reach my SG goal.

I keep ready made SW... I cover my can with a table cloth, it hides the can and LOL....keeps the dog hair out of it. I always have water just sitting in it for any emergency...the top off water, I keep in a little jug that's easy to tote from the RO unit to the tank, and fill the water level back to my line each night before bed. I used to use an Auto top off when I had a reef, A big plastic can filled with RO water only...then I topped off the holding container for that.

Just in case you don't know about Top off, or for anyone else reading this post:
I also mark my sump with a piece of white tape, and I top off to that line to maintain the SG level. (water evaporates but salt doesn't) so by keeping the water level always the same, it keeps the SG stable. With a sump system the water level in the display remains constant, the evaporation appears in the sumps water level. With HOB filters or canisters, the water level drops in the display.