Researching equipment....need opinions
- Thread starter pstanley
- Start date
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions#post_3533205
I saved your testing procedures to my desktop.... I didn't really think about all the details. I just had hoped to fill both up with water and turn them on lol. This may be a stupid question, but once you fill both the sump and display tank as you stated, do you start the siphon/overflow and then have somebody else plug in the return pump immediately afterwards (my sump is in a different room)?
I can't thank the people on this site enough. When I started this process again I felt pretty overwhelmed. I consider my first saltwater tank (back in 2002) a failure. I had nothing but hair algae issues in a small tank full of large predators. I feel much more knowledgeable this time around.
I would setup the system with water and start any HOB overflow siphon. then let things settle down and make any adjustments on water levels.
then start the pump and go through those tests.
If you have time I would recommend you setup a test system with two or more plastic storage containers in your garage or driveway. And play with that until you get it right. even with just freshwater. Much better to spill some freahwater in the garage then saltwater all over the living room carpet.
my .02
I saved your testing procedures to my desktop.... I didn't really think about all the details. I just had hoped to fill both up with water and turn them on lol. This may be a stupid question, but once you fill both the sump and display tank as you stated, do you start the siphon/overflow and then have somebody else plug in the return pump immediately afterwards (my sump is in a different room)?
I can't thank the people on this site enough. When I started this process again I felt pretty overwhelmed. I consider my first saltwater tank (back in 2002) a failure. I had nothing but hair algae issues in a small tank full of large predators. I feel much more knowledgeable this time around.
I would setup the system with water and start any HOB overflow siphon. then let things settle down and make any adjustments on water levels.
then start the pump and go through those tests.
If you have time I would recommend you setup a test system with two or more plastic storage containers in your garage or driveway. And play with that until you get it right. even with just freshwater. Much better to spill some freahwater in the garage then saltwater all over the living room carpet.
my .02
pstanley
Member
Ok, thanks everybody...I think I have that portion figured out. One more quick question before I go and buy the plumbing parts tomorrow. I have a return from my old Rena/API canister filter that connects with vinyl tubing. Is that what is normally used or does everybody make their own out of PVC? If I use my API/Rena return, will going from 1" PVC to much smaller diameter vinyl tubing cause any issues for the return line? I guess I can also cut off the barbed portion of the return and attach the PVC directly to it but it will still be going to a much smaller diameter.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Go all PVC. You don't want to go down to a much smaller diameter tube or else you risk damaging the pump. Most modern pumps should have a male thread on the outside of the output on the pump... put an adapter on there, then a union and then a ball valve. I'd also recommend NOT cementing in the very last joint over the overflow portion, so that it's very easy to remove the sump to clean it once a year... OR if you don't like that idea, put a union on it, so that you can still get it out.
I have seen a lot of tanks plumb in their overflows under the tank with hard PVC and the last portion (the one I told you not to plumb in) is flex hose - connected to a bulkhead in a pane of glass - to cut down on splash/ overspray/saltcreep - and it's easily removable for maintenance.
Anyways, just something to think about.
I have seen a lot of tanks plumb in their overflows under the tank with hard PVC and the last portion (the one I told you not to plumb in) is flex hose - connected to a bulkhead in a pane of glass - to cut down on splash/ overspray/saltcreep - and it's easily removable for maintenance.
Anyways, just something to think about.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions/20#post_3533313
Ok, so you are saying don't use the attached picture but make one out of PCV instead?
If I understand correctly, that is the HOB part of a canister filter. A canister filter is a limited closed container as opposted to a sump which is an open container. So that will drain the tank untill the canister fills up then stop. With an open container, the sump will continue draining until the upper container's water level is below the intake. Before that the sump could flood water. And after there is air in the line and when power returns the siphon has been broken so normal operation will not return.
By contrast the "beaslbob traps" drains to a certain level and the draining stops. With water "trapped" in the HOB part so siphon does not break. When power returns the upper container water level rises and the draining resumes. So normal operation resumes.
a good expample of this is your toilet. 1) look at the bowl from the side. You will see a "trap" from the side. 2) then watch the bowl level as you pour a bucket of water in. The level in the bowl will more or less stay the same as you pour the water in.
my .02
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions/20#post_3533313
Ok, so you are saying don't use the attached picture but make one out of PCV instead?
If I understand correctly, that is the HOB part of a canister filter. A canister filter is a limited closed container as opposted to a sump which is an open container. So that will drain the tank untill the canister fills up then stop. With an open container, the sump will continue draining until the upper container's water level is below the intake. Before that the sump could flood water. And after there is air in the line and when power returns the siphon has been broken so normal operation will not return.
By contrast the "beaslbob traps" drains to a certain level and the draining stops. With water "trapped" in the HOB part so siphon does not break. When power returns the upper container water level rises and the draining resumes. So normal operation resumes.
a good expample of this is your toilet. 1) look at the bowl from the side. You will see a "trap" from the side. 2) then watch the bowl level as you pour a bucket of water in. The level in the bowl will more or less stay the same as you pour the water in.
my .02
pstanley
Member
I understand what you are saying but we are talking about two different parts (or I am really confused lol). Aren't the "beaslbob traps" a replacement for the overflow? I am just talking about the return nozzle from the pump to the tank. If I was going to use the nozzle that I had, I would have to drill a hole slightly below the waterline (I assume) for a siphon break. I just didn't know if the smaller diameter pipe on my Rena nozzle would work since I would be feeding it with 1" PVC coming from the pump or if it would be better to just use the 1" PVC to return the water to the tank from the sump. I also have a spraybar that I used in my planted freshwater aquarium....again it is smaller diameter though so I would have to use some reducing adapters. Could this be used? I will be using powerheads also for additional flow.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go from 1" to 1/2" honestly. Too much constriction will put pressure on the pump. At max, I would reduce a 1" down to a 3/4", like what I have on my current tank plumbing. There are many companies out there that sell Loclines... they are the "multidirectional flow adapters" for tanks... they are usually in "megaflow overflow kits" but are sold seperately. They should have male threads for a female adapter. Of course, you should always drill a small siphon break hole in it as well.
I like loclines, they look professional, can be adapted to suit the needs of the tank and are easily installed with teflon tape.
I like loclines, they look professional, can be adapted to suit the needs of the tank and are easily installed with teflon tape.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions/20#post_3533328
I understand what you are saying but we are talking about two different parts (or I am really confused lol). Aren't the "beaslbob traps" a replacement for the overflow? I am just talking about the return nozzle from the pump to the tank. If I was going to use the nozzle that I had, I would have to drill a hole slightly below the waterline (I assume) for a siphon break. I just didn't know if the smaller diameter pipe on my Rena nozzle would work since I would be feeding it with 1" PVC coming from the pump or if it would be better to just use the 1" PVC to return the water to the tank from the sump. I also have a spraybar that I used in my planted freshwater aquarium....again it is smaller diameter though so I would have to use some reducing adapters. Could this be used? I will be using powerheads also for additional flow.
You're correct in that the beaslbob traps are for the overflow/drain not the pumped return lines.
Yes you need small holes on the return line when the return exit is below water line. I just drill a hole slightly above the water line pointing downard. That way the return line will get air immediately after a power outage. These likes have to the "cleaned out" often as salt creep builds up.
I also agree the return lines need to be surprisingly (to me anyway) large. In my case goring form 1/2" returns to 1" returns really really increased the water flow in the system.
my .02
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396504/researching-equipment-need-opinions/20#post_3533328
I understand what you are saying but we are talking about two different parts (or I am really confused lol). Aren't the "beaslbob traps" a replacement for the overflow? I am just talking about the return nozzle from the pump to the tank. If I was going to use the nozzle that I had, I would have to drill a hole slightly below the waterline (I assume) for a siphon break. I just didn't know if the smaller diameter pipe on my Rena nozzle would work since I would be feeding it with 1" PVC coming from the pump or if it would be better to just use the 1" PVC to return the water to the tank from the sump. I also have a spraybar that I used in my planted freshwater aquarium....again it is smaller diameter though so I would have to use some reducing adapters. Could this be used? I will be using powerheads also for additional flow.
You're correct in that the beaslbob traps are for the overflow/drain not the pumped return lines.
Yes you need small holes on the return line when the return exit is below water line. I just drill a hole slightly above the water line pointing downard. That way the return line will get air immediately after a power outage. These likes have to the "cleaned out" often as salt creep builds up.
I also agree the return lines need to be surprisingly (to me anyway) large. In my case goring form 1/2" returns to 1" returns really really increased the water flow in the system.
my .02