E
eric b 125
Guest
on a drilled return with loc-lines, where is the best place to drill the hole for the siphon break? or is there a better way?
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/3166308
on a drilled return with loc-lines, where is the best place to drill the hole for the siphon break? or is there a better way?
I think there is a couple of factors. Got a pic of yours?
http:///forum/post/3166308
on a drilled return with loc-lines, where is the best place to drill the hole for the siphon break? or is there a better way?
I think there is a couple of factors. Got a pic of yours?
E
eric b 125
Guest
havent done it yet. even though curve balls are always thrown, i try to think (maybe over-think) of all the kinks i can iron out before getting started.
mkroher
Member
I almost drilled my tank for the returns. Instead, I went up and over with the pvc. Then, I made sure the return lines were as high as I can make them, this way if power goes out, it doesn't siphon too much water to overflow the sump.
I also have a Wye check valve, which works great. I've tested the system without the valve, and when the power cuts out, the returns siphon only a small amount of the tank out back into the sump. Never overflowing the sump.
Is your tank drilled already for the returns?
I also have a Wye check valve, which works great. I've tested the system without the valve, and when the power cuts out, the returns siphon only a small amount of the tank out back into the sump. Never overflowing the sump.
Is your tank drilled already for the returns?
E
eric b 125
Guest
mkroher: the tank is not drilled yet, but i would really like to have the return drilled (if there's a good fail-safe). i have an open top tank and want to keep things as clean looking as possible. can you post pics of the wye check valve, or explain it to me?
dedecv3: i know not to use brass, but thanks for looking out on that one. i've heard the check valves arent that good of a fail-safe...?
dedecv3: i know not to use brass, but thanks for looking out on that one. i've heard the check valves arent that good of a fail-safe...?
E
eric b 125
Guest
i'm ordering the overflows from glass-holes, but it doesnt incorporate the return. i'm going with two 700gph boxes. i may just split the return with a scwd, and have wye loc-lines so water will be going in 4 different directions, and on each of the wye loc-lines i'll face one of the loc-lines higher so i can get a good spread of flow, but the higher loc-line will suck air thus breaking the siphon. theres no "standpipe" siphon breaks?
mkroher
Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/3166705
mkroher: the tank is not drilled yet, but i would really like to have the return drilled (if there's a good fail-safe). i have an open top tank and want to keep things as clean looking as possible. can you post pics of the wye check valve, or explain it to me?
dedecv3: i know not to use brass, but thanks for looking out on that one. i've heard the check valves arent that good of a fail-safe...?
http://www.**************.com/images/1-wye-check-valve-1.gif
I too wanted a real clean look, and wanted to drill for the returns. But honestly, my returns don't look bad at all. It's not very noticeable.
Yes, check valves CAN fail... that's why your returns should be close enough to the surface to not siphon more water than the sump can handle.
My sump is a 20gal long, and during operation it's half full. When the pump shuts off, the sump fills up with still 2-3" of room to spare. So really, I don't need the check valve, but it's there because I sleep better.
http:///forum/post/3166705
mkroher: the tank is not drilled yet, but i would really like to have the return drilled (if there's a good fail-safe). i have an open top tank and want to keep things as clean looking as possible. can you post pics of the wye check valve, or explain it to me?
dedecv3: i know not to use brass, but thanks for looking out on that one. i've heard the check valves arent that good of a fail-safe...?
http://www.**************.com/images/1-wye-check-valve-1.gif
I too wanted a real clean look, and wanted to drill for the returns. But honestly, my returns don't look bad at all. It's not very noticeable.
Yes, check valves CAN fail... that's why your returns should be close enough to the surface to not siphon more water than the sump can handle.
My sump is a 20gal long, and during operation it's half full. When the pump shuts off, the sump fills up with still 2-3" of room to spare. So really, I don't need the check valve, but it's there because I sleep better.
E
eric b 125
Guest
so really my best bet is to either:
A) bring the return over the back and drill a small hole right under the water line.
--- i would do two holes since the return will be split. the only thing that i dont like about this is i wanted to use flex tubing and doing it this way requires all hard plumbing and a lot of elbows. are snails or algae a threat?
or
B) have at least one of the loc-lines come close enough to the surface to break the siphon.
A) bring the return over the back and drill a small hole right under the water line.
--- i would do two holes since the return will be split. the only thing that i dont like about this is i wanted to use flex tubing and doing it this way requires all hard plumbing and a lot of elbows. are snails or algae a threat?
or
B) have at least one of the loc-lines come close enough to the surface to break the siphon.
E
eric b 125
Guest
that looks good, i can dig it. i think that's the way i'll do it. i'd like to split the external plumbing with a scwd, go over the tank and split again with a wye loc line. i'll drill a few holes in the plumbing right below water line. i'll do what you did and put the check valve on just for comfort. do the 2 90's over the top really cut down on flow?
mkroher
Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/3166852
that looks good, i can dig it. i think that's the way i'll do it. i'd like to split the external plumbing with a scwd, go over the tank and split again with a wye loc line. i'll drill a few holes in the plumbing right below water line. i'll do what you did and put the check valve on just for comfort. do the 2 90's over the top really cut down on flow?
I wouldn't split again, you'll lose a lot of flow. Before I had those two "flanges", I had each return split again into more loc line. So i had 4 exit points total. I barely felt any flow. I put the two flange pieces back, and I'm happy. But, I have a wussy pump... It's a Quient One rated at 330ish GPH. I did start out with a Mag-Drive 24, a monster. I hooked it up, turned it on, and my girlfriend gave me "that look". It was SO loud. I tried everything to reduce the vibration. I gave up and bought the dinky pump. Needless to say the mag24 is in storage for my dream tank that will probably never happen.
Even though my pump is small, the way I have the returns pointing up, there is flow throughout the entire tank. No dead spots. I'm not getting the volume of water down into my sump that I would like, but my nitrates are at 0 right now so I'm OK with it. Live and learn I guess.
-Mike
P.S. I have a piece of carpet in between the PVC and tank to prevent any chronic vibration damage (if any). I'll post a pic soon...
http:///forum/post/3166852
that looks good, i can dig it. i think that's the way i'll do it. i'd like to split the external plumbing with a scwd, go over the tank and split again with a wye loc line. i'll drill a few holes in the plumbing right below water line. i'll do what you did and put the check valve on just for comfort. do the 2 90's over the top really cut down on flow?
I wouldn't split again, you'll lose a lot of flow. Before I had those two "flanges", I had each return split again into more loc line. So i had 4 exit points total. I barely felt any flow. I put the two flange pieces back, and I'm happy. But, I have a wussy pump... It's a Quient One rated at 330ish GPH. I did start out with a Mag-Drive 24, a monster. I hooked it up, turned it on, and my girlfriend gave me "that look". It was SO loud. I tried everything to reduce the vibration. I gave up and bought the dinky pump. Needless to say the mag24 is in storage for my dream tank that will probably never happen.
Even though my pump is small, the way I have the returns pointing up, there is flow throughout the entire tank. No dead spots. I'm not getting the volume of water down into my sump that I would like, but my nitrates are at 0 right now so I'm OK with it. Live and learn I guess.
-Mike
P.S. I have a piece of carpet in between the PVC and tank to prevent any chronic vibration damage (if any). I'll post a pic soon...
E
eric b 125
Guest
mike, i know "the look" very well.
my tank is a 125 and i'm going for a pump thats rated for 1400 gph. what do you think of the scwd on the return line? your plumbing is just hanging on the back, eh? i think i may ancor my hard plumbing to the rear center brace of my cabinet and use flex tubing b/w the pump and the anchor. do you really think the wye loc-lines will cut down that much? i figure since it will only be going to one side of the tank at a time there should be a good current and i'll be able to direct the flow to more areas since i'm not going to do a CLS.
my tank is a 125 and i'm going for a pump thats rated for 1400 gph. what do you think of the scwd on the return line? your plumbing is just hanging on the back, eh? i think i may ancor my hard plumbing to the rear center brace of my cabinet and use flex tubing b/w the pump and the anchor. do you really think the wye loc-lines will cut down that much? i figure since it will only be going to one side of the tank at a time there should be a good current and i'll be able to direct the flow to more areas since i'm not going to do a CLS.
mkroher
Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/3167061
mike, i know "the look" very well.
my tank is a 125 and i'm going for a pump thats rated for 1400 gph. what do you think of the scwd on the return line? your plumbing is just hanging on the back, eh? i think i may ancor my hard plumbing to the rear center brace of my cabinet and use flex tubing b/w the pump and the anchor. do you really think the wye loc-lines will cut down that much? i figure since it will only be going to one side of the tank at a time there should be a good current and i'll be able to direct the flow to more areas since i'm not going to do a CLS.
I'm not familiar with the scwd. Someone on here had a thread going about the scwd. He bad luck with it, but turns out it was a defect and the company stood by their product and made it right. I would be really interested in knowing how often the scwd switches, allowing it to really give a wave affect. The other thing I dislike about the scwd is that can't be hard plumbed. it's barbed fittings and uses some hose-clamps.
Yeah my plumbing is just hanging off the back. It's easy to pull and off if I had to do any maintenance to it. It's 1" from the pump, then reduces to 3/4" to the returns.
http:///forum/post/3167061
mike, i know "the look" very well.
my tank is a 125 and i'm going for a pump thats rated for 1400 gph. what do you think of the scwd on the return line? your plumbing is just hanging on the back, eh? i think i may ancor my hard plumbing to the rear center brace of my cabinet and use flex tubing b/w the pump and the anchor. do you really think the wye loc-lines will cut down that much? i figure since it will only be going to one side of the tank at a time there should be a good current and i'll be able to direct the flow to more areas since i'm not going to do a CLS.
I'm not familiar with the scwd. Someone on here had a thread going about the scwd. He bad luck with it, but turns out it was a defect and the company stood by their product and made it right. I would be really interested in knowing how often the scwd switches, allowing it to really give a wave affect. The other thing I dislike about the scwd is that can't be hard plumbed. it's barbed fittings and uses some hose-clamps.
Yeah my plumbing is just hanging off the back. It's easy to pull and off if I had to do any maintenance to it. It's 1" from the pump, then reduces to 3/4" to the returns.
E
eric b 125
Guest
i wasnt aware that it couldnt be hard plumbed. i thought i saw on melevs reef that he had it hard plumbed but i could be mistaken. i'll have to investigate that further. i do know that the more gph a pump pushes, the faster the switch is. but the one i was looking at can only be used on pumps up to 1400 gph, which sounds about right for my sized tank anyways.
E
eric b 125
Guest
the more i think about this, the harder it is to make up my mind. i sent glass-holes an e-mail to see if they had any suggestions on a siphon break other than a check valve on the drilled returns. i'll see what they say. its not even a decision i have to make right away, but i want to get this done by years end and i want to make sure i make the right choice. i try to think things out, but a lot of times i think i over complicate things.
mkroher
Member
Originally Posted by Eric B 125
http:///forum/post/3167588
the more i think about this, the harder it is to make up my mind. i sent glass-holes an e-mail to see if they had any suggestions on a siphon break other than a check valve on the drilled returns. i'll see what they say. its not even a decision i have to make right away, but i want to get this done by years end and i want to make sure i make the right choice. i try to think things out, but a lot of times i think i over complicate things.
you can have both siphon break and a check valve. But how can you have a siphon break on a drilled return? When you drill a hole in a tank, it's suggested that you drill the hole one "drill bit" distance away from an edge. That brings your hole down further.
Also, the more holes you drill, the more places you can have a leak. I wouldn't use the cheap ABS bulkheads either that come with glass-hole's return kits.. They are crap.
If you really want drilled returns, do it right, search for Hayward bulkheads. The bulkheads require a certain size drill bit. When I bought my Hayward bulkheads, it came with instructions about which size drill bit I need.
Learn from my mistake....the following is how I wasted money:
I bought return kits from glass-holes.com. (This was for a 90gal that I don't have anymore). I drilled 4 holes for 4 returns. I installed the ABS bulkheads that came with the kit. I just had a really bad feeling about the bulkheads. They didn't seal well, and I felt the hole was much too large. I didn't even do a leak test, I just didn't like what I saw. Anyways, being paranoid I ordered 4 new Hayward bulkheads. Came to about $50. The bulkheads arrived, and of course, they wouldn't fit in the holes I made. So I had to order a new drill bit. *sigh*.
I sold the 90 (some guy wanted to use it as a frag tank... whatever). I still have the Hayward bulkheads and drill bit in storage.. who knows if I'll ever use them.
I currently have a 75gal, with the plumbing you see in the pictures above.
-Mike
http:///forum/post/3167588
the more i think about this, the harder it is to make up my mind. i sent glass-holes an e-mail to see if they had any suggestions on a siphon break other than a check valve on the drilled returns. i'll see what they say. its not even a decision i have to make right away, but i want to get this done by years end and i want to make sure i make the right choice. i try to think things out, but a lot of times i think i over complicate things.
you can have both siphon break and a check valve. But how can you have a siphon break on a drilled return? When you drill a hole in a tank, it's suggested that you drill the hole one "drill bit" distance away from an edge. That brings your hole down further.
Also, the more holes you drill, the more places you can have a leak. I wouldn't use the cheap ABS bulkheads either that come with glass-hole's return kits.. They are crap.
If you really want drilled returns, do it right, search for Hayward bulkheads. The bulkheads require a certain size drill bit. When I bought my Hayward bulkheads, it came with instructions about which size drill bit I need.
Learn from my mistake....the following is how I wasted money:
I bought return kits from glass-holes.com. (This was for a 90gal that I don't have anymore). I drilled 4 holes for 4 returns. I installed the ABS bulkheads that came with the kit. I just had a really bad feeling about the bulkheads. They didn't seal well, and I felt the hole was much too large. I didn't even do a leak test, I just didn't like what I saw. Anyways, being paranoid I ordered 4 new Hayward bulkheads. Came to about $50. The bulkheads arrived, and of course, they wouldn't fit in the holes I made. So I had to order a new drill bit. *sigh*.
I sold the 90 (some guy wanted to use it as a frag tank... whatever). I still have the Hayward bulkheads and drill bit in storage.. who knows if I'll ever use them.
I currently have a 75gal, with the plumbing you see in the pictures above.
-Mike