Return Pump Question

[xrobbx03]

I'm upgrading to a new 65 tank within the new month or so. The overflow of the tank i want is rated for 600gph. What would be a good return pump which is not overly expensive i am on a budget. Havent gotten the tank but I think there will probably be around 3 head feet.

 

[drew2005]

Originally Posted by xrobbx03
I'm upgrading to a new 65 tank within the new month or so. The overflow of the tank i want is rated for 600gph. What would be a good return pump which is not overly expensive i am on a budget. Havent gotten the tank but I think there will probably be around 3 head feet.
Mag Drives are great pumps. I would go with a Mag 7(700gph) and fit a ball valve on the return line to regulate the return. Ive had the Mag 5(500gph) on my 46 gallon and its going strong for more than a year now. Do some shopping online and you can most definitely get it for $60-$70 maybe less.

 

[xrobbx03]

thanks. What if i were going to go with an external pump. Any suggestions there?

 

[drew2005]

Originally Posted by xrobbx03
thanks. What if i were going to go with an external pump. Any suggestions there?
You can run the Mag Drives externally.

 

[jessecnc]

When figuring out your head, make sure to take into account the plumbing as well. You probably have more than 3' head. Even so, the mag-drive is a good choice. As for an external pump, the Little Giant pumps are reasonably priced and good performers.

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by drew2005
Mag Drives are great pumps. I would go with a Mag 7(700gph) and fit a ball valve on the return line to regulate the return. Ive had the Mag 5(500gph) on my 46 gallon and its going strong for more than a year now. Do some shopping online and you can most definitely get it for $60-$70 maybe less.

incorrect... your head loss with this pump at 3' with a single ball valve and only 1 90deg elbow you return only 509 gph. your sump would overflow.
you could put the ball valve on the drain line to regulate tho overflow of water but that is tricky to do correctly measured.
with the specification you gave your best bet is a quite one 3000- 1" return tubing and 2 90degree elbows with one ball valve(which is not recommended for use on single return line ,restricting direct pump flow.)
Total losses are 3.76 feet of head pressure, or 1.63 PSI. with a flow rate of 600 GPH

but then again JUST MY OPINION

 

[hurt]

If he has an overflow rated for 600gph and you feel his return pump will do 509gph, why do you feel his sump will overflow? I'm confused on that one. If anything his overflow may lose siphon from airbubbles not making it all the way through the U-tubes and being trapped in the top of it eventually causing it to lose siphon. But I doubt it, that is not too far off IMO. Ideally you want the "actual" return flow to be just less than the overflow is capable of(i.e. 50gph or less). Also why would you ever put a ball valve on a drain line? The overflow will only do as much as is "actually" being returned to the DT by the return pump.

 

[coachklm]

600 is a garenteed # it wont flow more or less(without pipe restriction/ not recommended for reliability) then 600 gph ( a ball valve on overflow is good for replumbing in future ect..) if you put 600 gph in a tank and only 509 out . you have 91 gph extra with nowhere to go. but out the top of the sump. you want your Rpump as close as possible to the max allowable overflow rate (600gph) theres no way aound it i did not factor in the fact that many return tubes have 2 90degree elbows(over the top) not only that but many stands with tanks are at 4' head(common) so with that in mind your looking at with a mag 7:
with 1" piping 4.47 feet of head pressure, or 1.93 PSI. with a flow rate of 455 GPH.
with .75" piping: 418gph
1.25 piping: 471gph
too low for me but..... To Each Thier Own.

ok...it was obviously to early for me now i know what you were saying... but the overflowed sump will depend on the water level in the sump before starting and during and also the level of the inside overflow box ... running all the number in all ways i still cant see how you can think that a mag 7 is good enough?

 

[hurt]

I'm still a bit confused on what you are saying? An overflow does not have to be exactly matched to the "actual" return gph. It can't be less than the actual flow. But it can be rated larger than the actual return flow as long as the difference is not too great(i.e. 50gph or less ideally). Why do you feel it has to be the exact same? Not trying to argue, just trying to understand what you are saying. Also I am still lost as to why anyone would ever want to put a ball valve on an overflow drain. An overflow will only do as much flow, as the return pump is "actually" returning to the DT.

 

[coachklm]

it doesnt have to be exact but it's not reccomeded to be over 100gph off. i had all my plumbing with ball vaves to be able to switch plumbing if i needed to change a sump or add tunzes..ect especcially if there becomes a leak in a section of plumbing ...
eitherway the quite one 3000 is a better option for his situation. of course only IMO

 

[hurt]

I agree, it's not wise to have 500 gph actually going back to your DT when the overflow is only rated for 600 gph. This of course is because the flow through the U-tube will not be fast enough, and the airbubbles will likely not make it all the way through, thus they become trapped in the top of the U-tube and eventully build up enough to make the U-tube lose siphon. If his tank is drilled with overflows none of the above applies. Could you possibly explain with a little more detail as to why you would want to put a ball valve on the overflow drain. I'm still a bit confused on that.
Thanks,
BigHurt

 

[xrobbx03]

so your saying a mag7 wouldnt be good enough?

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by Hurt
I agree, it's not wise to have 500 gph actually going back to your DT when the overflow is only rated for 600 gph. This of course is because the flow through the U-tube will not be fast enough, and the airbubbles will likely not make it all the way through, thus they become trapped in the top of the U-tube and eventully build up enough to make the U-tube lose siphon. If his tank is drilled with overflows none of the above applies. Could you possibly explain with a little more detail as to why you would want to put a ball valve on the overflow drain. I'm still a bit confused on that.
Thanks,
BigHurt
here.... notice every drain and return for that matter has a ball valve ... this is good for shutting it to redo plumbing in the future or to fixa leak that has developed... it's a safety and convienience thing... but thats just my opinion.

 

[susieq]

Is this what your looking at? I am also upgrading to 90 later this month. I wanted to get a wet/dry but after looking at the plumbing and the return line issues i'm thinking about going with a canister instead. :notsure:

 

[hurt]

Coach, I see what you mean now. You are referring to a drilled tank with what looks like closed loops, and that's where you lost me. I can see why you would want to do such to disconnect the plumbing, otherwise you would drain your tank down to the bulkhead inlets. I was referring to HOB overflow's and thought you were attempting to close the ball valves to match the flow with the return pumps. I understand your point now with the closed loops, thanks.

 

[xrobbx03]

it would be better to have more of a return pump then too little of a pump am i right?

 

[hurt]

Yes, I would rather have a return pump with more "actual" return flow than less, compared to the overflow's capability. If you have more than the overflow is capable of you can put a T right off the return line with a ball valve on it. Some people put them in-line, but for most pumps it's better to do it with the T. Sequence pumps are apparently one of the exceptions. Here's the diagram. The more you open the ball valve, less water is returned to your DT and vice versa.

 

[xrobbx03]

thanks for the picture that helps out alot. I think I was going to get a quiet one 4000 pump which is rated for 980gph. I will use the T pipe with the ball valve like you mentioned and i should be fine.

 

[volunteerg]

thank goodness for this post!
i am designing a 55g frag tank with a fuge below and will be using a 55g to grow macro...i'm using leftover parts and couldn't figure out how to properly slow the flow of my quiet1 4000 pump to match the 600 gph overflow.
research pays off!

 

[fender]

Interesting reading here.
I happen to have a 65 gallon tank, with an overflow rated at 600 gph and a mag 7. Works great, has for 3+ years. I have a tee with the valve incase the pump pushed more than the overflow but never need it for that. Why get a bigger pump than you need?
Oh and btw, you could have an overflow rated for eleventy billion gph and it will only flow as much as the pump pushes into the tank.