Rid Ick?
- Thread starter myamia113
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
I used Rid Ick all it did was rid me of my money
ifirefight
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
I used Rid Ick all it did was rid me of my money
I used Rid Ick all it did was rid me of my money
geridoc
Well-Known Member
UV sterilizers are chancy. If the flow is slow enough, and if the bulb bright enough, and if it is new enough, then you can kill a lot of ich organisms, and keep the infection load low enough that the level of infection will not be a serious problem. Notice, though, that there are a lot of if's in the sentence above. One mistake, and the ich organisms, which will not be completely eliminated by UV treatment, will re-emerge and cause problems again.
lesleybird
Active Member
I have used Kick Ich which is 5-nitroimidoles, think it is a relative of flagyl. I have had ich twice in the 5 years since having saltwater fish and it has worked both times. Was ich free for two years and recently introduced a new fish and exactly two weeks later this fish has ich. The other fish in the tank did not show any ich except for one fish had a couple of ich spots on it's tail. It could be since they had had it two years earlier that they had some immunity to it. So, this is actually my third time to use the Kick Ick. Started dosing the Kick three days ago and don't see any more spots. I will continue to dose the Kick for a total of 5 to 6 weeks straight as I know that in the past if you stop dosing after only two to three weeks, even though the spots are not visable, it will come back in a couple of days. When I dose for 6 weeks without stop it has stayed away for two years. The stuff did not kill my shrimp or crabs or affect my biofiltration. All the moderaters on this site will tell you it does not work but it does for me. It may be too late for you if you don't catch it when it first comes the fish can be too weak to recover.
Here is how the bottle says to dose....beginning on day one add 2 oz. per 25 gallons of total water volume including sumps etc. repeat dose on days 4, 7, 10 and 13. It says that you may repeat the cycle. It says for heavy infestations to repeat instead on days 3, 5, 7, 10, and 13.
Here is what Lesley the RN does successfully. I dose 2 oz. of Kick per 25 gallons on day one, then dose 1 oz. per 25 gallons every single day for 6 weeks straight. I do 25 percent water changes weekly while doing this as you must turn your skimmer off, remove any carbon type media and turn off any UV filter if used as all degrade the medicine. Since it only kills the swimming stage I dose in the morning because I have read that the swimmers always hatch in the morning and it is a good time for the med to be the strongest at this time to kill the most of them. I dose the smaller daily dose as any medication degrades some if it is in the water with the rocks and lights etc. for any length of time and becomes less effective. Daily dosing keeps fresh medication in the tank where it can kill the swimmers better. I do this for 6 weeks straight as I said, even thought the spots are gone in a couple of days they will come right back if one stops in only 2 or 3 weeks as some of these buggers are tough and since Kick is a weak, but reef safe killer some might still survive through the first two week life cycle but it gets to the point where fewer and fewer survive each life cycle until they are gone. Sure beats taking all the fish out of the tank. I dose like this as I know from real life with bacterial infections my patients often go home for at least 6 weeks of IV antibiotics which even continue after the infection looks gone after a few weeks as there are always stragglers that are tougher and will come back and multiply if the med stops. I know that ich is not a bacteria, but the principal is the same. Says it is safe for corals too...don't really know but it has not killed the mushroom corals and my brain coral which are the only ones that I have. If one can get a fish out of the tank that is heavily infested they can benefit from a 2 to 5 minute dip in fresh water of the same temp which is ph adjusted with about a half a teaspoon of baking soda per gallon to match the ph. If the fish seems stressed take him out sooner and place him back in the tank. Did this with my new wrasse this time which started to act funny after two minutes. Put him back in the tank and he was fine and the spots were all gone by the next morning as the osmolarity of the fresh (dechlorinated) fresh water makes the spots pop which is only aparent after a few hours after the fish is put back in the tank. The Kick is about 40 dollars for a large bottle at most fish stores but subsequent bottles can be purchased on line for about $23 if you have a large tank and need a large amount like I do it is worth the shipping fee. Got to buy the first bottle locally or the fish will die waiting for you to get it. Good luck, Lesley
Here is how the bottle says to dose....beginning on day one add 2 oz. per 25 gallons of total water volume including sumps etc. repeat dose on days 4, 7, 10 and 13. It says that you may repeat the cycle. It says for heavy infestations to repeat instead on days 3, 5, 7, 10, and 13.
Here is what Lesley the RN does successfully. I dose 2 oz. of Kick per 25 gallons on day one, then dose 1 oz. per 25 gallons every single day for 6 weeks straight. I do 25 percent water changes weekly while doing this as you must turn your skimmer off, remove any carbon type media and turn off any UV filter if used as all degrade the medicine. Since it only kills the swimming stage I dose in the morning because I have read that the swimmers always hatch in the morning and it is a good time for the med to be the strongest at this time to kill the most of them. I dose the smaller daily dose as any medication degrades some if it is in the water with the rocks and lights etc. for any length of time and becomes less effective. Daily dosing keeps fresh medication in the tank where it can kill the swimmers better. I do this for 6 weeks straight as I said, even thought the spots are gone in a couple of days they will come right back if one stops in only 2 or 3 weeks as some of these buggers are tough and since Kick is a weak, but reef safe killer some might still survive through the first two week life cycle but it gets to the point where fewer and fewer survive each life cycle until they are gone. Sure beats taking all the fish out of the tank. I dose like this as I know from real life with bacterial infections my patients often go home for at least 6 weeks of IV antibiotics which even continue after the infection looks gone after a few weeks as there are always stragglers that are tougher and will come back and multiply if the med stops. I know that ich is not a bacteria, but the principal is the same. Says it is safe for corals too...don't really know but it has not killed the mushroom corals and my brain coral which are the only ones that I have. If one can get a fish out of the tank that is heavily infested they can benefit from a 2 to 5 minute dip in fresh water of the same temp which is ph adjusted with about a half a teaspoon of baking soda per gallon to match the ph. If the fish seems stressed take him out sooner and place him back in the tank. Did this with my new wrasse this time which started to act funny after two minutes. Put him back in the tank and he was fine and the spots were all gone by the next morning as the osmolarity of the fresh (dechlorinated) fresh water makes the spots pop which is only aparent after a few hours after the fish is put back in the tank. The Kick is about 40 dollars for a large bottle at most fish stores but subsequent bottles can be purchased on line for about $23 if you have a large tank and need a large amount like I do it is worth the shipping fee. Got to buy the first bottle locally or the fish will die waiting for you to get it. Good luck, Lesley
sepulatian
Moderator
You need to treat ALL of your fish with hyposalinity. You will have to either move your fish or the rocks, sand, and inverts to a qt to do this.
myamia113
New Member
What's the best way to start hypo treatment? Slowly drop the salinity or drastically drop it? For how long? Step by step instructions would be helpful and appreciated. I have a Black & White Clownfish, a Purple Stripe Pseudochromis and a Firefish in my 20 Gal. tank. The Firefish is the only one that I can't tell if he has the Ich or not because of his color. He shows no spots on the red portion of his body. But it's most likely right? It's been at least a week of Ich infestation and so far all I've been doing to treat it is use RId-Ick as directed. As of now my fish are still acting fairly normal. The Clownfish seems to be affected by it the most. I hope he makes it. I'm not really worried about my live rock as of now I only have 5 lbs. I was planning on adding some slowly, as I was converting from a FO tank to a FOWLR, but this ick thing put that on hold. As of inverts all I have are 2 small hermit crabs and a small nassarius snail. Will the hypo hurt them? Ich doesn't effect them? Should they be moved?
murph
Active Member
Interesting info lesly;
I may do some experimenting with this product and see if I can duplicate your results.
I will setup a ten gallon tank normal reef style. Sand rock, probably base rock and get it stabilized and toss in a few shrooms and maybe Xenia's and yellow polyp couple of snails and crabs.
I can then easily obtain and inexpensive and infected fish, there's a ***** a few blocks from my house
Should not be to expensive to duplicate your dosing procedures with this product in this small a tank. We shall see what happens in regards to the fish and its reef safe claims.
I may do some experimenting with this product and see if I can duplicate your results.
I will setup a ten gallon tank normal reef style. Sand rock, probably base rock and get it stabilized and toss in a few shrooms and maybe Xenia's and yellow polyp couple of snails and crabs.
I can then easily obtain and inexpensive and infected fish, there's a ***** a few blocks from my house
lesleybird
Active Member
Hi, You know it has been 11 days since I started the Kick Ich this time......got kind of scared even though it worked twice in the past for me as everyone on this board says it does not work and keeps preaching hyposalinity which to me seems like a nightmare to perform. Well, after 11 days of treatment all fish are doing well, swimming fine, eating well. Did see one spot that is fading over my Majestic angel's eye but it is very tiny (she only got a couple of spots this time and the other fish that have been around and got treated for the ich a couple of years ago either got no ich at all or only one or two spots. I think the goal here is not total irradication of the ick, but to keep the fish alive and well with an occasional spot until they build up immunity to the white spot. It is very interesting that the fish I have that were with me when I treated with the Kick Ich 2 years ago barely got any ich at all....it was only the new fish and the one that had only been in the tank for a year that got ich. Maybe the ich was not brought in on the new fish since it took a full two weeks for it to get the ich. Maybe the ich is in the system at a very low level and the fish that were previously infected had a lot of immunity. I don't know, but I have been having saltwater fish for 5 years and have never lost any fish due to ich and I have never messed with hyposalinity, don't want to. I have only used the Kick Ich as in the manner that I stated earlier in this thread and knock on wood, I hope the success continues.
I will say that I always look for the ich spots and treat immediately before the fish show any signs of stress from it as I think that if it is left untreated for a couple of days the fish are too far gone for anything to work well.
The other things that I wish to say is that the way I treat is to calculate for the total water volume of the tank and sump without subtracting for the water volume replaced by rock as the darn rocks still absorb and deactivate the med at the same rate as water in my gestimation which means that I dose the daily amount listed in the above thread and caculate the amount for the 90 gallons of my tank plus the sump amount minus a small amount for the overflow box. If anyone is batteling ich I would suggest you try it and do keep it up in the water for a full 6 weeks as the spots may pop up one here and there for that long and then you can stop using the med and keep watching your fish to make sure it is not comming back. If you stop the treatment after only 3 weeks or so when it looks like all the spots are gone they will often come back and you will have to start dosing all over again counting 6 weeks from the new outbreak time. Like I said, my fish treated in this way have been ich free for at least two years until I added this last wrasse who is now doing well. If you think it does not work it at least keeps them from dieing before you get your hypo tank set up. Also, I want to say that I do not have any tangs as I read that they are ich magnets. Don't know if anything can help them but hypo and total fallow irradication for 5 weeks for the main tank to be fishless. There is a new med out there that I might try if my ich treatment does not work like it has in the past and it is called Ich Attack by Kordan....read some early reviews that were favorable and it is suppose to be reef safe also. Lesley
I will say that I always look for the ich spots and treat immediately before the fish show any signs of stress from it as I think that if it is left untreated for a couple of days the fish are too far gone for anything to work well.
The other things that I wish to say is that the way I treat is to calculate for the total water volume of the tank and sump without subtracting for the water volume replaced by rock as the darn rocks still absorb and deactivate the med at the same rate as water in my gestimation which means that I dose the daily amount listed in the above thread and caculate the amount for the 90 gallons of my tank plus the sump amount minus a small amount for the overflow box. If anyone is batteling ich I would suggest you try it and do keep it up in the water for a full 6 weeks as the spots may pop up one here and there for that long and then you can stop using the med and keep watching your fish to make sure it is not comming back. If you stop the treatment after only 3 weeks or so when it looks like all the spots are gone they will often come back and you will have to start dosing all over again counting 6 weeks from the new outbreak time. Like I said, my fish treated in this way have been ich free for at least two years until I added this last wrasse who is now doing well. If you think it does not work it at least keeps them from dieing before you get your hypo tank set up. Also, I want to say that I do not have any tangs as I read that they are ich magnets. Don't know if anything can help them but hypo and total fallow irradication for 5 weeks for the main tank to be fishless. There is a new med out there that I might try if my ich treatment does not work like it has in the past and it is called Ich Attack by Kordan....read some early reviews that were favorable and it is suppose to be reef safe also. Lesley
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by myamia113
What's the best way to start hypo treatment? Slowly drop the salinity or drastically drop it? For how long? Step by step instructions would be helpful and appreciated. I have a Black & White Clownfish, a Purple Stripe Pseudochromis and a Firefish in my 20 Gal. tank. The Firefish is the only one that I can't tell if he has the Ich or not because of his color. He shows no spots on the red portion of his body. But it's most likely right? It's been at least a week of Ich infestation and so far all I've been doing to treat it is use RId-Ick as directed. As of now my fish are still acting fairly normal. The Clownfish seems to be affected by it the most. I hope he makes it. I'm not really worried about my live rock as of now I only have 5 lbs. I was planning on adding some slowly, as I was converting from a FO tank to a FOWLR, but this ick thing put that on hold. As of inverts all I have are 2 small hermit crabs and a small nassarius snail. Will the hypo hurt them? Ich doesn't effect them? Should they be moved?
Drop the SG over 48 hours gradually. Pull out some tank water then slowly dribble FW in all day long if you can. The more gradual the better. It should take 48hrs; no more, no less. All fish need to be treated whether they show spots or not. Rid ich will not help. We will be happy to walk you through this.
What's the best way to start hypo treatment? Slowly drop the salinity or drastically drop it? For how long? Step by step instructions would be helpful and appreciated. I have a Black & White Clownfish, a Purple Stripe Pseudochromis and a Firefish in my 20 Gal. tank. The Firefish is the only one that I can't tell if he has the Ich or not because of his color. He shows no spots on the red portion of his body. But it's most likely right? It's been at least a week of Ich infestation and so far all I've been doing to treat it is use RId-Ick as directed. As of now my fish are still acting fairly normal. The Clownfish seems to be affected by it the most. I hope he makes it. I'm not really worried about my live rock as of now I only have 5 lbs. I was planning on adding some slowly, as I was converting from a FO tank to a FOWLR, but this ick thing put that on hold. As of inverts all I have are 2 small hermit crabs and a small nassarius snail. Will the hypo hurt them? Ich doesn't effect them? Should they be moved?
Drop the SG over 48 hours gradually. Pull out some tank water then slowly dribble FW in all day long if you can. The more gradual the better. It should take 48hrs; no more, no less. All fish need to be treated whether they show spots or not. Rid ich will not help. We will be happy to walk you through this.
murph
Active Member
I would agree. Rid ich might be fun to experiment with but its likely these products serve only to aid in controlling the parasite at non lethal levels if that.
Hypo should be your first line of attack and you can fall back on copper as a last resort. Parasite eradication should be the goal. Simply trying to control the parasite at non lethal levels will eventually lead to lethal levels at some point IMO.
For idiots like me who would intentionally bring parasite into the house and risk cross contamination to existing systems just so they have something to play around with is another matter altogether
Hypo should be your first line of attack and you can fall back on copper as a last resort. Parasite eradication should be the goal. Simply trying to control the parasite at non lethal levels will eventually lead to lethal levels at some point IMO.
For idiots like me who would intentionally bring parasite into the house and risk cross contamination to existing systems just so they have something to play around with is another matter altogether
lesleybird
Active Member
Hi, I think that ich can come into your system any time you add a live rock or coral etc. also as the swimmers or cysts could be on them. I used the Kick Ich successfully a couple of years ago with the same fish, in the same tank and for at least two years there was no visable ich an the fish were healthy looking and feeding well. If the Kick Ich did not totally remove any ich from the system or not, I don't know. I did not get ich this time until I added a new fish that was not quarentined and two weeks later it had ich. The fish that had the ich a couple of years ago did not get ich at all, or maybe just a spot or two.....gets me thinking that once they get the ich and are treated and survive that their immune system is able to fight it off? As I stated before, when I used the Kick Ich in the manner stated in my earlier post in this thread all of the treated fish lived and are still alive a couple of years later in the same tank. You can preach hyposalinity all you want, but if this continues to work for me it sure is a lot easier. I hope my ich population never develops resistance to the drug in Kich Ich which is related to flagyl that is given to humans to treat amebiasis, trichomoniasis and anaerobic bacterial infections. Yes, Kich Ich is a drug, not pepper sause! Lesley
B
bellaroxio
Guest
Originally Posted by sepulatian
Drop the SG over 48 hours gradually. Pull out some tank water then slowly dribble FW in all day long if you can. The more gradual the better. It should take 48hrs; no more, no less. All fish need to be treated whether they show spots or not. Rid ich will not help. We will be happy to walk you through this.
What if the QT tank is already at 1.009? Would that shock the fish going from infected DT to QT?
Drop the SG over 48 hours gradually. Pull out some tank water then slowly dribble FW in all day long if you can. The more gradual the better. It should take 48hrs; no more, no less. All fish need to be treated whether they show spots or not. Rid ich will not help. We will be happy to walk you through this.
What if the QT tank is already at 1.009? Would that shock the fish going from infected DT to QT?
al mc
Active Member
Bella...I think the shock treatment would be a bad idea. Many people will use a freshwater bath that is of same pH and temp as the DT water to 'knock off' some of the ICH organisms. however, thiey only shock the fish for 2-5 minutes. One member of the forum claimed to have made the mistake of adding all his/her DT ICH infested fish into 1.009 without lowering the salinity gradually and claimed they all were lethargic for 24 hours but survived.
IMHO it would be best to lower the SG from DT level to 1.009 with a series of small water changes over a 2-3 days period. Keep the SG at 1.009 for 3 weeks then gradually increase the SG to 1.026 over 4-6 days.
IMHO it would be best to lower the SG from DT level to 1.009 with a series of small water changes over a 2-3 days period. Keep the SG at 1.009 for 3 weeks then gradually increase the SG to 1.026 over 4-6 days.
B
bellaroxio
Guest
Ciao!
murph
Active Member
Originally Posted by Lesleybird
Hi, I think that ich can come into your system any time you add a live rock or coral etc. also as the swimmers or cysts could be on them. I used the Kick Ich successfully a couple of years ago with the same fish, in the same tank and for at least two years there was no visable ich an the fish were healthy looking and feeding well. If the Kick Ich did not totally remove any ich from the system or not, I don't know. I did not get ich this time until I added a new fish that was not quarentined and two weeks later it had ich. The fish that had the ich a couple of years ago did not get ich at all, or maybe just a spot or two.....gets me thinking that once they get the ich and are treated and survive that their immune system is able to fight it off? As I stated before, when I used the Kick Ich in the manner stated in my earlier post in this thread all of the treated fish lived and are still alive a couple of years later in the same tank. You can preach hyposalinity all you want, but if this continues to work for me it sure is a lot easier. I hope my ich population never develops resistance to the drug in Kich Ich which is related to flagyl that is given to humans to treat amebiasis, trichomoniasis and anaerobic bacterial infections. Yes, Kich Ich is a drug, not pepper sause! Lesley
More power to ya Leslie. But you probably have already noticed that excepted methods in this hobby are becoming pretty much written in stone these days. A bad thing for he advancement of the hobby in general IMO.
I have even seen resistance to the use of sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate which is the active ingredient in ammonia detoxifiers, for no other reason than "its a chemical and has a chemical sounding name, it has to be bad". Little do they know that pretty much every fish they have ever bought was exposed to this chemical during transport or it would have killed itself with its own waste before it arrived at the retail level or mailed to there home.
Trying to explain the difference between free ammonia and ionic ammonia is also seemingly a concept that is impossible to explain to most hobbyist. The list could go on but why bother.
The only thing I would ask of you is that you paragraph out your post so they easier for me to read.
Hi, I think that ich can come into your system any time you add a live rock or coral etc. also as the swimmers or cysts could be on them. I used the Kick Ich successfully a couple of years ago with the same fish, in the same tank and for at least two years there was no visable ich an the fish were healthy looking and feeding well. If the Kick Ich did not totally remove any ich from the system or not, I don't know. I did not get ich this time until I added a new fish that was not quarentined and two weeks later it had ich. The fish that had the ich a couple of years ago did not get ich at all, or maybe just a spot or two.....gets me thinking that once they get the ich and are treated and survive that their immune system is able to fight it off? As I stated before, when I used the Kick Ich in the manner stated in my earlier post in this thread all of the treated fish lived and are still alive a couple of years later in the same tank. You can preach hyposalinity all you want, but if this continues to work for me it sure is a lot easier. I hope my ich population never develops resistance to the drug in Kich Ich which is related to flagyl that is given to humans to treat amebiasis, trichomoniasis and anaerobic bacterial infections. Yes, Kich Ich is a drug, not pepper sause! Lesley
More power to ya Leslie. But you probably have already noticed that excepted methods in this hobby are becoming pretty much written in stone these days. A bad thing for he advancement of the hobby in general IMO.
I have even seen resistance to the use of sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate which is the active ingredient in ammonia detoxifiers, for no other reason than "its a chemical and has a chemical sounding name, it has to be bad". Little do they know that pretty much every fish they have ever bought was exposed to this chemical during transport or it would have killed itself with its own waste before it arrived at the retail level or mailed to there home.
Trying to explain the difference between free ammonia and ionic ammonia is also seemingly a concept that is impossible to explain to most hobbyist. The list could go on but why bother.
The only thing I would ask of you is that you paragraph out your post so they easier for me to read.