Rock VS Bio Balls

stonepran

New Member
I'm still in the process of picking between a REFUGE or a wet/dry for my 29g reef, although wondering if I did decide to go with the wet/dry would using small pieces of dead rock act better then bio balls? I believe one of the major problems with wet/dry's is the nitrate levels and hoping the rock would be better?
I did find these: http://www.reeferrocks.com/coralpieces.htm
any help would be great, thanks!!!
 
T

thomas712

Guest
Lets take a look at the thought process here. If you go with a wet/dry and you use bio balls, we know that the balls are very efficiant at breaking down the very toxic to the least toxic ammo>trites>trates, and this is where most have a DSB, Fuge, nitrate coil, or some plan to export or use up the nitrates. The balls are also very good at oxygenating the water as well, very good due to the round shape and tiny little spikes on them.
Main complaint here is that eventually the bio balls will get clogged with debris and raise the nitrates, which can be cured with simple maintance, btw.
I took a look at the link and saw square dead coral peices. It would have helped to expand the pic to take a better look at the squares to see how porous they were but letts say that they were very porous, full of nooks and crannies, and looked good.
Now if you use them in the same manner as you would bio balls in a trickle method what would happen.
This is my OPINION --
Would they house the benifical bacteria.....Yes
Would there be as much surface area vs. bio balls.... I don't believe so,. no way.
Would they be as good at oxygenating the water.... No way.
Why? Lets take a look at the shape of the balls vs. the squares here for a moment. Ever notice that nature tends to make things round? A square boulder will even become round given enough time. Rocks in a river bed become smooth and rounded. A drop of water, even the atoms and electrons that form that drop of water are rounded. Even the earth is round. This is one reason why we like sand rather than crushed coral. An ounce of sand will have more surface area than an ounce of CC.
Round is natures way of giving something that will have the most amount of volume with the smallest amout of space. Sure that doesn't help stack leftovers in the fridge but you get the idea.
So what I am saying is that the round shape vs. the square, round will offer much more surface area, more surface area will result in more filtration and a higher bio load capacity.
The more surface area offered by the bio balls will also allow the water to cover more surface area, the spikes on the balls will also help to break up the water and cover more area. The more the water is exposed to surface area the faster the reaction time for it to convert the ammonia down into nitrates. You can't beat that with squares or even rock rubble.
On the clogging problem, both the balls and the squares/rock rubble are going to have the same problem here. They will get dirty, if they get dirty they will have to be cleaned, its going to be alot easier to clean the balls, how are you going to get the junk that has formed up in the middle pores of the square? It can be done but it will most likely take more maintanance.
Does all this mean that the square rock will not work.. No but why would you want to use something what will reduce your surface area, reduce your oxygen, and require higher mainanace :confused: If your not gaining anything why reduce your benifits.
I think if you were to submerge the rocks instead and let the water flow through them instead of trickle, then you would have a more natural way of filtering and you could maybe maintain them better, like the turkey baster thing to clean them off, but since they are small and square you can just rinse them like bio balls. Live rock in the sump is a good idea for extra filtration.
Well I might as well get off of my soapbox, I didn't draw much of a crowd anyway.
Thomas
 

joerdie

Member
wow great analisys. im not being sarcastic. i really mean it! IMO i would only use both. been using both for 3+ years and have not had a problem. just my 2c
 

krux

Member
excellent post. on a side note, the reef rocks are the roundish things at that top of the page, the square things towards the bottom are for coral propigation. still the same principle holds true though i believe.
one of the most common posts i see is people saying how terrible bio balls are, but as you pointed out, with minimal maintenance, there is 0 problem. when the balls start to get dirty, all you need to do is remove 1/4 of them and rinse them off when you do your water changes. easy, problem solved.
 

tangman99

Active Member
I have to agree with Thomas on the Coral pieces not even coming close to the bio-balls. The claim of the same volume of coral rocks compared to bioballs is totally misleading and wrong. The thing that matters is surface area. If you calculated the surface area of a single bioball with all the prongs, it would take a huge piece of coral rock to equal that much surface area.
I don't think the coral rubble will do it alone. If you add a sandbed in addition to the rubble, then you would probably be ok.
This is my humble opinion.
 

stonepran

New Member
Thanks everyone for the reply... I was actually talking about the small pieces of rock rubble in the first part of the url, not the cubes at the bottom...
I guess my question is now is if I have a good prefilter won't that foam take out any large debris or dirt that could clog the rock like your talking about above? I find it hard to imagine that a piece of plastic is a better filter then actual rock.
Thanks!
 
T

thomas712

Guest

Originally posted by stonepran
I find it hard to imagine that a piece of plastic is a better filter then actual rock.
Thanks!

Well the ocean is better than our glass boxes too, but I hear what your saying. When looking for a place to grow your benifical bacteria doesn't care what it is. It will be on your rock, sand, tank walls, pipes, tubes you name it.
Yes having the pre filter floss will help a good deal, depending on what happens you can expect to change it every week to two weeks. I get a good size wad of it from my lfs and cut the pieces to fit into my pull out drawer in the wet/dry, store them in a zip lock bag and use as needed.
Thomas
 

stonepran

New Member
Thomas thanks for the reply,
By chance would you happen to have some pictures of your filter area? I'd love to take a look at the experienced reefers setups and get some ideas. It seems you are using a wet/dry yourself? Are you using bioballs or removed them?
Thanks again,
 
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thomas712

Guest
Sorry no pics, :( . But I got a digi on my wish list. Yes on a wet/dry, Yes on the bio balls, Experienced ? well maybe someday. ;) If I can afford it.
Thomas
 
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