Rylan and Obama supporters please defend this stance for me.

[hlcroghan]

I just feel that those countries should have more of a choice. There are many Iraqi citizens that have been quoted saying that they apprecaiate the help and are relieved Sadaam is gone but that they want the Americans to leave now so they can run their own government. We are kind of shoving it down their throats.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by CoralJunkie
http:///forum/post/2723620
I find it hard to believe that we can get pictures of the mistreatment of prisoners in abu garib but not one picture has leaked of a dead Osama Bin Laden????? Come on? I respect your service to this country and applaud you for doing so but I just find this very hard to believe.
If they bombed the house, he probably wouldn't exist any more those things get pretty hot...

 

[hlcroghan]

The pictures were because one of the soldiers was dumb enough to take them. Trust me when I say that no one was dumb enough to report this if it wasn't allowed and it still isn't. I have been out for 5+ years now though and I am not bound by that. It is a sore subject with me and I sidelined this thread big time. I apologize.
Back to the regular program....lol

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Squidward
http:///forum/post/2723503
Again, no one's comparing countries, just you. You just got to face the fact that we're in a recession no matter what your media tries to say that we're not.
Maybe try picking up a dictonary and read the definition of economic recession

 

[coraljunkie]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723626
The pictures were because one of the soldiers was dumb enough to take them. Trust me when I say that no one was dumb enough to report this if it wasn't allowed and it still isn't. I have been out for 5+ years now though and I am not bound by that. It is a sore subject with me and I sidelined this thread big time. I apologize.
Back to the regular program....lol
Well then lets just say we can agree to disagree

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723622
I just feel that those countries should have more of a choice. There are many Iraqi citizens that have been quoted saying that they apprecaiate the help and are relieved Sadaam is gone but that they want the Americans to leave now so they can run their own government. We are kind of shoving it down their throats.
Sure, that is why they voted, to write a constitution, then voted based on that constitution. At some point you have to take that step of faith and trust that the govt will work. And with some of the reports coming out of there, I doubt we'll have a major military presence there by the end of the next prez's term. Now Afghanistan might be another story. Oboomer has proposed a "surge" over there.
We've had good success in the past rebuilding nations and leaving. Japan, Germany, S Korea. We actually occupied those places for years, before we left, we rebuild everything, set up a democratic government and left. (minus some military bases b/c of the strategic location on the globe.)

 

[hlcroghan]

Yes I agree to disagree...
I sure hope you are right. It gets so old to hear about our troops dying. I unfortunately think that we may be there for a while longer. We always find some way to leave some people behind to "watch" the countries. We have military bases set up in all of those countries, BTW. We sure as hell didn't leave them alone.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723626
The pictures were because one of the soldiers was dumb enough to take them.
hey we can agree on something, I always wondered why in the world these morons took pictures of the "torture"

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723622
I just feel that those countries should have more of a choice. There are many Iraqi citizens that have been quoted saying that they apprecaiate the help and are relieved Sadaam is gone but that they want the Americans to leave now so they can run their own government. We are kind of shoving it down their throats.

My son just got back from Iraq, funny how he or none of those he served with were hearing that.

 

[hlcroghan]

because they thought they were cool. you would never think that people would do things like that. people always say that in that situation they would never do the same thing but peer pressure is hard on you. I am grateful that I was never in that situation because I was an MP. A lot of those Muslims are nothing more than dogs to some of the soldiers because of how much they are taught to hate them. I think this more in the beginning of the war though. I could tell you some crazy stories they do not put on the news. Some of the horrible things that they do to their own children just to kill a few Marines.

 

[hlcroghan]

Reefraff, it was an article that was put out a while ago. Maybe a year and a half? I may be behind the times on how events are unfolding now in country or that may have been in a different area of the country than your son was. Idk?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723636
I sure hope you are right. It gets so old to hear about our troops dying. I unfortunately think that we may be there for a while longer. We always find some way to leave some people behind to "watch" the countries.
I don't think we are "watching" germany anymore. Maybe east germany during the cold war... I don't know how much you read news, but the last big faction of "insurgents" basically surrendered. IMO it is basically over. Iraq says they are almost good to go. I don't know if they'll set up a permenate military base in Iraq. I think McCain would try but Obama wouldn't.

 

[hlcroghan]

I am saying we still have bases over there. Every place we have gone to war with, we have created a military base in. Do you see any japanese or german military bases here?? no. we would never allow it. how is that fair?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2723645
My son just got back from Iraq, funny how he or none of those he served with were hearing that.
My cuz is in a special forces recon division, and he has nothing but good things to say about it. so does the rest of my family that went over there. The funny thing is, they did said all kind of crap about going into bosnia.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2723656
I am saying we still have bases over there. Every place we have gone to war with, we have created a military base in. Do you see any japanese or german military bases here?? no. we would never allow it. how is that fair?
B/C we beat them? Then rebuilt them

 

[hlcroghan]

idk, i was never in a recon unit or in the infantry obviously. i am a woman. i only know my personal experiences. i just believe our country is here to protect us, not to be involved in every other country's business. it is not a popular viewpoint i know, but it is the one i have.

 

[cranberry]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2723130
it is the doctors duty to do everything possible to see that child gets cared for medically, it is called the hypocratic oath.

I must have missed this post earlier. A little review of the oath is in order. Nowhere does it say what you said. Also the oath is not standardized per se, and has been adapted overtime to try and keep up a little bit with the times. Not all schools even use them.... but most do.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2723130
But let's take your excuse and see if it holds water. There is no cure for alzheimers at this point, so should doctors bother treating these patients since they will die anyway? I mean why bother, they always die and are never cured.
But.... that's a whole different ball game. You can't lump every disease/condition into the same basket. Shoot.... why treat anyone for anything because we're all gonna die someday anyway? And with Alzheimers you kindda treat the mind so it can keep up with the body for as long as it can. If you didn't really treat it, your mind would go alot quicker but your body would live on like it would having been treated. That's if they keep up the same lifestyle of course.
We can not medically keep a 21 weeker alive.
"For most neonatologists, there will be a minimum gestational age, below which they will refuse to resuscitate despite parental request. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has stated that noninitiation of resuscitation in the delivery room is appropriate for newborns with confirmed gestational age less than 23 weeks, and that this recommendation may change as the limits of viability change."
That's what we follow at our hospital.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2723130
it is the doctors duty to do everything possible to see that child gets cared for medically.
Sometimes caring for a child medically means letting them go peacefully. Do you think it is more humane to treat them like a tortured P.O.W. before letting them go? You have no idea what goes on behind those doors once they enter our unit. It can look like it's a scene straight out of the movie Hostel. A lot of people say they couldn't do what I do.... seeing the pain I often inflict or stand by and watch them go through. But I do it proudly because I'm giving a viable baby a chance. A few months back I went to a 22 weeker delivery. The parents wanted to try, O.B. are soft in their opinions and the neo that was on that night was BRAND new from an outside agency. So she opted to try. Wanna hear about the rotten stinkin' things I did to that baby for 12 straight hours before we withdrew? PM me... I'll tell ya all about it. There's nothing like ending your shift with tears in your eyes and whispering to a little suffering baby "I'm so sorry little one". Until technology changes I will never attend another delivery like that with hopes of resusitation without first recounting that night for those parents. That instead of holding their perfect looking little baby now and peacefully watch them die, we will be handing them to the folks in about 12 hours looking unrecognizable after all our "helpful" interventions. We know what our obstacle is, it's a lung thing and we are working on it. But until we are there...... no baby, through either a spontaneous or induced abortion, should be resusitated if they are not of the viable gestation. Just my opinion, of course. How they "came into this world" is a whole other debate. But it doesn't change the fact you are still holding in your hands a baby that we can't medically fix yet.
And remember, a lot of abortions occur at clinics... what do you think a clinic can do with a preemie what my hospital cannot. And I'm not from some backwards town... it's a level III NICU in L.A. Ship them off to the nearest hospital? The wouldn't survive the ride.

 

[hlcroghan]

Thanks Cranberry (oh so grateful for your intervention on this thread) I agree 100% here. I very much doubt Obama is okay with killing healthy babies. I think if I had to vote knowing that is what they are preventing, then I would vote against it too. I am sorry you had to go through that with that baby.

 

[reefraff]

Obama voted against the bill numerous times. He also refused to allow the bill to be amended to match the language of the federal law which was passed unanimously by the US Senate and all but 13 members of the US House of Representatives. So over 400 congressmen and ninety some odd Senators were wrong but Ohbs is right

 

[cranberry]

I can't speak to the politics of it all... all I know about is preemies.