Sad enough to give up
- Thread starter kackey
- Start date
fishieness
Active Member
Originally Posted by Kackey
I have 1/Penguin 200 bio-wheel,1/30/60 Whisper (Charcole in both) and Red Sea Protein Skimmer(up to 100 Gal)
so what is that? Only 300 gallons per hour? It may be that your fish, who move more so are more dependant on O2 are actualy suffocating in your tank. That is only about 6X turnover rate. I have 22X in my reef and 18X on my FO. The same thing happened to me before i added a powerhead to my FO. My snowflake almost died. You might want to get a powerhead. Well, numerous ones and make sure there is surface aggitation. They do make O2 test kits, but ih avent heard anything to see how accurate they are.....however, now that i think about it, i dont htink it is the problem because your pH is fine, but you might want to get one to avoid the instance if this happens in the future.
I have 1/Penguin 200 bio-wheel,1/30/60 Whisper (Charcole in both) and Red Sea Protein Skimmer(up to 100 Gal)
so what is that? Only 300 gallons per hour? It may be that your fish, who move more so are more dependant on O2 are actualy suffocating in your tank. That is only about 6X turnover rate. I have 22X in my reef and 18X on my FO. The same thing happened to me before i added a powerhead to my FO. My snowflake almost died. You might want to get a powerhead. Well, numerous ones and make sure there is surface aggitation. They do make O2 test kits, but ih avent heard anything to see how accurate they are.....however, now that i think about it, i dont htink it is the problem because your pH is fine, but you might want to get one to avoid the instance if this happens in the future.
kackey
New Member
Originally Posted by jamie814
Don't blame the inverts for fish deseases only can live on fish and can only get into your tank via a infected host fish which looks liked happened. Really the only way to rid the tank of the problem is to leave it fishless for about 8 weeks and quarantine all new fish for a few weeks to be sure they are not carrying and deseases or praisites on them. Their is no med that you can put in a reef tank or tank with inverts/liverock that will kill ick. Did you notice any little white spots on the fish? Where they eating fine?
"I have some Burgandy,White, and Green on the LR too"
Sounds like coraline algae and is good.
Thanks, I already knew I wasn't getting any more fish,I wanted help to keep the inverts living. I looked this site all weekend for help on disease.I saw nothing that looked like Ickon any of the fish. The clown's skin didn't look good ,for lack of better words It looked thin and slimy. They didn't eat Sat morning the day they died. The Blue Damsel was the last to die (today) I didn't see any white spots on him either.The blue damsel was swimming in a little back/forth motion Sat. nite. The clows had been sleeping in an empty shell and had quit sleeping in it. I already miss them the most.
Don't blame the inverts for fish deseases only can live on fish and can only get into your tank via a infected host fish which looks liked happened. Really the only way to rid the tank of the problem is to leave it fishless for about 8 weeks and quarantine all new fish for a few weeks to be sure they are not carrying and deseases or praisites on them. Their is no med that you can put in a reef tank or tank with inverts/liverock that will kill ick. Did you notice any little white spots on the fish? Where they eating fine?
"I have some Burgandy,White, and Green on the LR too"
Sounds like coraline algae and is good.
Thanks, I already knew I wasn't getting any more fish,I wanted help to keep the inverts living. I looked this site all weekend for help on disease.I saw nothing that looked like Ickon any of the fish. The clown's skin didn't look good ,for lack of better words It looked thin and slimy. They didn't eat Sat morning the day they died. The Blue Damsel was the last to die (today) I didn't see any white spots on him either.The blue damsel was swimming in a little back/forth motion Sat. nite. The clows had been sleeping in an empty shell and had quit sleeping in it. I already miss them the most.
jamie814
Member
:notsure: I guess I would just keep an eye on the inverts and wait a few weeks to try some more fish and if you can quarantine them first. If you want to 100% sure not to introduce any more problems with your new fish you can treat them with hypo when you get them to be safe. Get another small tank now so it is cycled and ready to go when you get your new fish. But don't give up yet.
aquapro_1
Member
I believe that it is the water. Tap water without an additive is a death sentence. If you can get some & start using it every time you use tap, the atmosphere will be more favorable.
I will never believe anyone who says 6 weeks is enough time. Like I said. I have 2 tanks. Neither was ready at 6 weeks. I have a ro/di system. I like to keep from adding chemicals to the tank. Also if your tank is not holding the ph, the it has to be the water. I am sure the playsand is not making matters any easier. The dust is quite toxic.
I will never believe anyone who says 6 weeks is enough time. Like I said. I have 2 tanks. Neither was ready at 6 weeks. I have a ro/di system. I like to keep from adding chemicals to the tank. Also if your tank is not holding the ph, the it has to be the water. I am sure the playsand is not making matters any easier. The dust is quite toxic.
jamie814
Member
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
I believe that it is the water. Tap water without an additive is a death sentence. If you can get some & start using it every time you use tap, the atmosphere will be more favorable.
I will never believe anyone who says 6 weeks is enough time. Like I said. I have 2 tanks. Neither was ready at 6 weeks. I have a ro/di system. I like to keep from adding chemicals to the tank. Also if your tank is not holding the ph, the it has to be the water. I am sure the playsand is not making matters any easier. The dust is quite toxic.
Yes tap water may or may not be good but unless it is tested it could be perfectly fine. Yes RO/DI is best.
Can you explain to me why the inverts are all fine :notsure: They are a lot more sensitve to water quality and meds than fish are. The PH is stable at 8.2-8.4. as all other parameters were also in check meaning the water should not be the problem.
I believe that it is the water. Tap water without an additive is a death sentence. If you can get some & start using it every time you use tap, the atmosphere will be more favorable.
I will never believe anyone who says 6 weeks is enough time. Like I said. I have 2 tanks. Neither was ready at 6 weeks. I have a ro/di system. I like to keep from adding chemicals to the tank. Also if your tank is not holding the ph, the it has to be the water. I am sure the playsand is not making matters any easier. The dust is quite toxic.
Yes tap water may or may not be good but unless it is tested it could be perfectly fine. Yes RO/DI is best.
Can you explain to me why the inverts are all fine :notsure: They are a lot more sensitve to water quality and meds than fish are. The PH is stable at 8.2-8.4. as all other parameters were also in check meaning the water should not be the problem.
kackey
New Member
Originally Posted by keonia
Kackey,
I'm sorry you experienced all of this so far but don't give up. First Can you list your water parameters?
PH -8.2 --- 8.4
Nitrate, ---20
Nitrite,
[hr]
0
Ammonia ----0
salinity ----1.024
temperature ---around 78
which marine buffer do you use? ----Seachem Marine Buffer
do you have any skimmer? Red sea protein skimmer/hang on up to 100 gal --- what kind of filter are you using? Whisper30/60 and Penguin 200 Bio-wheel
How did you start your cycle? did you spike it with a piece of shrimp? check water parameters? Started off bad with LS and CRushed Coral--I ditched the CC and restarted added LR and LS 2 weeks after cycle restarted. I used shrimp and watched parameters added 3 dansels 18 days after Lr &LS added
How far is your light from your tank? I recently had that brown stuff you are describing and after I placed 4 blue legged hermits, they chomped away and that brown stuff is all gone. I placed my light too close to tank! This light is a PC and it has adjustable legs, it is app.4" from aquarium and 6" from the water
Lets start problem solving your tank situation with your water parameters!!
Hang in there it will all be worth it. Thanks
Keonia
Thanks
Kackey,
I'm sorry you experienced all of this so far but don't give up. First Can you list your water parameters?
PH -8.2 --- 8.4
Nitrate, ---20
Nitrite,
[hr]
0
Ammonia ----0
salinity ----1.024
temperature ---around 78
which marine buffer do you use? ----Seachem Marine Buffer
do you have any skimmer? Red sea protein skimmer/hang on up to 100 gal --- what kind of filter are you using? Whisper30/60 and Penguin 200 Bio-wheel
How did you start your cycle? did you spike it with a piece of shrimp? check water parameters? Started off bad with LS and CRushed Coral--I ditched the CC and restarted added LR and LS 2 weeks after cycle restarted. I used shrimp and watched parameters added 3 dansels 18 days after Lr &LS added
How far is your light from your tank? I recently had that brown stuff you are describing and after I placed 4 blue legged hermits, they chomped away and that brown stuff is all gone. I placed my light too close to tank! This light is a PC and it has adjustable legs, it is app.4" from aquarium and 6" from the water
Lets start problem solving your tank situation with your water parameters!!
Hang in there it will all be worth it. Thanks
Keonia
Thanks
kackey
New Member
Originally Posted by jamie814
:notsure: I guess I would just keep an eye on the inverts and wait a few weeks to try some more fish and if you can quarantine them first. If you want to 100% sure not to introduce any more problems with your new fish you can treat them with hypo when you get them to be safe. Get another small tank now so it is cycled and ready to go when you get your new fish. But don't give up yet.
Yes, I'll Keep an eye on them, making sure they are moving around,keep doing water changes. Can I take LR/sand from this tank and jump start a quarantine tank? I wish my pic had attached.Is a 10 gal big enough?What is Hypo?
:notsure: I guess I would just keep an eye on the inverts and wait a few weeks to try some more fish and if you can quarantine them first. If you want to 100% sure not to introduce any more problems with your new fish you can treat them with hypo when you get them to be safe. Get another small tank now so it is cycled and ready to go when you get your new fish. But don't give up yet.
Yes, I'll Keep an eye on them, making sure they are moving around,keep doing water changes. Can I take LR/sand from this tank and jump start a quarantine tank? I wish my pic had attached.Is a 10 gal big enough?What is Hypo?
hot883
Active Member
I simply believe that the tank was not cycled when ALL the fish were put in. (thats a BIG NO NO) The tang in a 55 was another. Nothing could survive a bio load like that group produced. IMO. Stop, read, do not buy, read, ask questions, take a deep breath, read, and then read some more. All the mistakes that were made would not have been made if research was done and you understood the system.
I'm not flaming you, just saying it like it is.
LR cannot survive even a day without die off. If it was FULLY submerged in sw then OK, if not you had DIE OFF. Just another sourse of nitrogen and added to the ammonia levels that IMO killed everything. I think it was a total combination of all of this that lead to the deaths. Just my $.02
I'm not flaming you, just saying it like it is.
LR cannot survive even a day without die off. If it was FULLY submerged in sw then OK, if not you had DIE OFF. Just another sourse of nitrogen and added to the ammonia levels that IMO killed everything. I think it was a total combination of all of this that lead to the deaths. Just my $.02
sw65galma
Active Member
All the above posts are good, but a little confusing to new comers who are just bombarded with specific questions and "theroies" as to what happened..
Plain and simple
Basically if you think of the Bioload like wieght training....You can't goto the gym and start lifting 300lbs the first day...You have to work up to it...
What you did was started off training for the first month, which was good...ended at lifting 100lbs..
Next day layed down on the bench and had the trainer hand you 400lbs to bench which fell on you and crushed you...
That's essentially what you did to your tanks bioload by adding all that stuff at once..
You have to cycle your tank, "work it out" until it can handle the bioload by SLOWLY adding things one or 2 at a time (depending on size of tank and creature).
Where to go from here you ask?
Do 20% water changes weekly until the water is back to levels 0.
Things will probably die...but thats the way of the hobby (make bad mistakes and learn from them lol)
Wait a few weeks before adding anything else.
Then SLOWLY (and I think we need to start defining slowly) 1 Fish per Month or a few inverts per month...NOT BOTH.
This will insure your Bacteria is "trained" to handle the extra weight...
If you cannot wait this long then this is NOT the hobby for you..
A Decent sized tank to stock fully takes about 2 years
Plain and simple
Basically if you think of the Bioload like wieght training....You can't goto the gym and start lifting 300lbs the first day...You have to work up to it...
What you did was started off training for the first month, which was good...ended at lifting 100lbs..
Next day layed down on the bench and had the trainer hand you 400lbs to bench which fell on you and crushed you...
That's essentially what you did to your tanks bioload by adding all that stuff at once..
You have to cycle your tank, "work it out" until it can handle the bioload by SLOWLY adding things one or 2 at a time (depending on size of tank and creature).
Where to go from here you ask?
Do 20% water changes weekly until the water is back to levels 0.
Things will probably die...but thats the way of the hobby (make bad mistakes and learn from them lol)
Wait a few weeks before adding anything else.
Then SLOWLY (and I think we need to start defining slowly) 1 Fish per Month or a few inverts per month...NOT BOTH.
This will insure your Bacteria is "trained" to handle the extra weight...
If you cannot wait this long then this is NOT the hobby for you..
A Decent sized tank to stock fully takes about 2 years
aquapro_1
Member
Again, talking from experience & not a text book. I lost fish due to premature cycle..Completely my fault. Listened to too many different people. Live and learn! BUT I still have my original hermits. They survived the holocost of the Cycle! The snails and emerald crabs did too. I also have a brittle star. Getting the hint? All my fish died & left me with inverts!! Fish are very sensitive to nitrate levels. Too much stress & they die. Inverts are tougher. It is the nitrite level for them. And the cycle starts with ammonia, then it zeros out & goes Nitrate, then zeros out and go nitrite......Get the cycle? When one level lowers the others start & rise as the first cycle lowers and eventually zeros out.
Please if you have another tank. Use live sand & not the same water. That is contaminated. Start moving the fish over. Watch the levels. By the time the original tank has lowered it's level, the second will show signs. Transfer them back. That is how I kept mine alive. Bwteen 2 tanks. Then one day the tank matures & life as we know it, returns.
Only do it if your serious about keeping them alive.
Please if you have another tank. Use live sand & not the same water. That is contaminated. Start moving the fish over. Watch the levels. By the time the original tank has lowered it's level, the second will show signs. Transfer them back. That is how I kept mine alive. Bwteen 2 tanks. Then one day the tank matures & life as we know it, returns.
Only do it if your serious about keeping them alive.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
Again, talking from experience & not a text book. I lost fish due to premature cycle..Completely my fault. Listened to too many different people. Live and learn! BUT I still have my original hermits. They survived the holocost of the Cycle! The snails and emerald crabs did too. I also have a brittle star. Getting the hint? All my fish died & left me with inverts!! Fish are very sensitive to nitrate levels. Too much stress & they die. Inverts are tougher. It is the nitrite level for them. And the cycle starts with ammonia, then it zeros out & goes Nitrate, then zeros out and go nitrite......Get the cycle? When one level lowers the others start & rise as the first cycle lowers and eventually zeros out.
Please if you have another tank. Use live sand & not the same water. That is contaminated. Start moving the fish over. Watch the levels. By the time the original tank has lowered it's level, the second will show signs. Transfer them back. That is how I kept mine alive. Bwteen 2 tanks. Then one day the tank matures & life as we know it, returns.
Only do it if your serious about keeping them alive.
There is some false information here...
Aragonite playsand is perfect for an aquarium (I've got 700lbs of southdown in my tank. Do a search for southdown on this forum)
The cycle goes ammonia>NITRITE>NITRATE
Fish are not more sensitive than inverts... just the opposite.
Inverts, as a whole, are far more sensitive to water parameters than fish
Nitrates will kill corals...
If you disagree with anything I've said, please post references. I believe everything I've stated is accepted as the "norm".
Again, talking from experience & not a text book. I lost fish due to premature cycle..Completely my fault. Listened to too many different people. Live and learn! BUT I still have my original hermits. They survived the holocost of the Cycle! The snails and emerald crabs did too. I also have a brittle star. Getting the hint? All my fish died & left me with inverts!! Fish are very sensitive to nitrate levels. Too much stress & they die. Inverts are tougher. It is the nitrite level for them. And the cycle starts with ammonia, then it zeros out & goes Nitrate, then zeros out and go nitrite......Get the cycle? When one level lowers the others start & rise as the first cycle lowers and eventually zeros out.
Please if you have another tank. Use live sand & not the same water. That is contaminated. Start moving the fish over. Watch the levels. By the time the original tank has lowered it's level, the second will show signs. Transfer them back. That is how I kept mine alive. Bwteen 2 tanks. Then one day the tank matures & life as we know it, returns.
Only do it if your serious about keeping them alive.
There is some false information here...
Aragonite playsand is perfect for an aquarium (I've got 700lbs of southdown in my tank. Do a search for southdown on this forum)
The cycle goes ammonia>NITRITE>NITRATE
Fish are not more sensitive than inverts... just the opposite.
Inverts, as a whole, are far more sensitive to water parameters than fish
Nitrates will kill corals...
If you disagree with anything I've said, please post references. I believe everything I've stated is accepted as the "norm".
aquapro_1
Member
I may have have messed the order up. Was upset & not thinking. But I only have fish & inverts. Again, I speak from experience. My inverts out-lived my fish. The fish were healthy, no ich. I had green chromis & they are the sturdiest of all fish. They did not out last my inverts......Unless I have remarkable inverts...Explain that to me? My friend works at a fish store & can vouch the fish were healthy & dies due to cycling. Thus instaed of 3 month wait, I chose to wait 6mo. I was sick of carnage. It's been 3 years & I still have them.....
J
jdragunas
Guest
Kackey, we need to know your water parameters exactly. The LFS saying they're "fine" really can't help us much, as "fine" to them might not be so fine.
After reading your first post, i must ask, how exactly did you cycle your tank? I read that on aug. 14th, you began cycling your tank, but didn't add your LR or LS to the tank until Sept. 7th.
Here's the general jist of cycling:
1. introduce ammonia (feeding the tank as if a fish was there, or putting in a shrimp)
2. ammonia-eating bacteria grows and turns the ammonia into nitrites
3. nitrite-eating bacteria grows and turns the nitrites into nitrates
Since you didn't add your LR and LS to the tank until after this all happened, the only place that the bacteria grew on was your tank walls... This is not good. I would say that your tank, although cycled, was "under-cycled". When you added the fish to the tank, it probably kicked-off another cycle, because there wasn't enough ammonia-eating and nitrite-eating bacteria in your tank.
It is very possible for inverts to survive while fish die because of poor water problems... How do you think hitchikers always seem to survive on LR? Yes, inverts are more sensative to water quality, fish are more sensative to stress. So while the inverts only have to deal with poor water quality, the fish have to deal with that and stress. Because too many were introduced in such a short period of time, it is very plausible that the fish died of poor water quality, combined with stress.
Also, while inverts are sensative to water quality, they can survive in poor water quality, as long as you acclimate them properly. They're more sensative to quick water quality changes... not necessarily to water quality.
When was the last time you tested your water parameters? have you tested since the fish began dieing? Please test today and post all of your results so we can maybe get a better understanding of what's going in your tank. Without knowing any of your test results, it is impossible for us to continue this investigation as to why you lost your fish.
Please don't become disheartened. This is the most rewarding hobby in existance, IMO, and probably in the opinion of 99% of the people on this website. If you begin to let yourself become too disappointed, you'll never be able to truly enjoy yourself. It took me 4 months to stop killing fish. I haven't lost a fish since, and it's great. You just have to live and learn, and once you do, you'll be so glad you didn't give up because of your first big loss...
After reading your first post, i must ask, how exactly did you cycle your tank? I read that on aug. 14th, you began cycling your tank, but didn't add your LR or LS to the tank until Sept. 7th.
Here's the general jist of cycling:
1. introduce ammonia (feeding the tank as if a fish was there, or putting in a shrimp)
2. ammonia-eating bacteria grows and turns the ammonia into nitrites
3. nitrite-eating bacteria grows and turns the nitrites into nitrates
Since you didn't add your LR and LS to the tank until after this all happened, the only place that the bacteria grew on was your tank walls... This is not good. I would say that your tank, although cycled, was "under-cycled". When you added the fish to the tank, it probably kicked-off another cycle, because there wasn't enough ammonia-eating and nitrite-eating bacteria in your tank.
It is very possible for inverts to survive while fish die because of poor water problems... How do you think hitchikers always seem to survive on LR? Yes, inverts are more sensative to water quality, fish are more sensative to stress. So while the inverts only have to deal with poor water quality, the fish have to deal with that and stress. Because too many were introduced in such a short period of time, it is very plausible that the fish died of poor water quality, combined with stress.
Also, while inverts are sensative to water quality, they can survive in poor water quality, as long as you acclimate them properly. They're more sensative to quick water quality changes... not necessarily to water quality.
When was the last time you tested your water parameters? have you tested since the fish began dieing? Please test today and post all of your results so we can maybe get a better understanding of what's going in your tank. Without knowing any of your test results, it is impossible for us to continue this investigation as to why you lost your fish.
Please don't become disheartened. This is the most rewarding hobby in existance, IMO, and probably in the opinion of 99% of the people on this website. If you begin to let yourself become too disappointed, you'll never be able to truly enjoy yourself. It took me 4 months to stop killing fish. I haven't lost a fish since, and it's great. You just have to live and learn, and once you do, you'll be so glad you didn't give up because of your first big loss...
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by aquapro_1
I may have have messed the order up. Was upset & not thinking. But I only have fish & inverts. Again, I speak from experience. My inverts out-lived my fish. The fish were healthy, no ich. I had green chromis & they are the sturdiest of all fish. They did not out last my inverts......Unless I have remarkable inverts...Explain that to me? My friend works at a fish store & can vouch the fish were healthy & dies due to cycling. Thus instaed of 3 month wait, I chose to wait 6mo. I was sick of carnage. It's been 3 years & I still have them.....
I don't have the ability to explain one incident... but I will say that ICH is not the only marine disease or parasite. It is VERY possible that your fish died from disease, parasites, internal parasites...
A "cycle" isn't anything magical. You can test for it and see when your aquarium is ready for fish.
Not sure about your friend at the pet store. I live in the DFW area as well. I'd like to see a pet store that recommends a tank cycle for any length of time over 2 months.
Not trying to be argumenitive, but your posts come across as your way is THE right way. That's not fair to the other readers of the boards. Your opinion needs to be backed up by personal experience AS LONG AS it doesn't contradict proven methods and prior knowledge. Your comments on nitrite and nitrates, for instance... even if you mixed the 2 up the information is still incorrect. Nitrite is toxic to everything.... and your comments on play sand... that fancy pre-packaged stuff at the pet store is aragonite sand. Southdown, Old Castle, Yardright is too. Like I said, do a search on this forum for it... don't tell someone "playsand" is a problem. Explaining the differences in playsand would be a much better way to go.
I may have have messed the order up. Was upset & not thinking. But I only have fish & inverts. Again, I speak from experience. My inverts out-lived my fish. The fish were healthy, no ich. I had green chromis & they are the sturdiest of all fish. They did not out last my inverts......Unless I have remarkable inverts...Explain that to me? My friend works at a fish store & can vouch the fish were healthy & dies due to cycling. Thus instaed of 3 month wait, I chose to wait 6mo. I was sick of carnage. It's been 3 years & I still have them.....
I don't have the ability to explain one incident... but I will say that ICH is not the only marine disease or parasite. It is VERY possible that your fish died from disease, parasites, internal parasites...
A "cycle" isn't anything magical. You can test for it and see when your aquarium is ready for fish.
Not sure about your friend at the pet store. I live in the DFW area as well. I'd like to see a pet store that recommends a tank cycle for any length of time over 2 months.
Not trying to be argumenitive, but your posts come across as your way is THE right way. That's not fair to the other readers of the boards. Your opinion needs to be backed up by personal experience AS LONG AS it doesn't contradict proven methods and prior knowledge. Your comments on nitrite and nitrates, for instance... even if you mixed the 2 up the information is still incorrect. Nitrite is toxic to everything.... and your comments on play sand... that fancy pre-packaged stuff at the pet store is aragonite sand. Southdown, Old Castle, Yardright is too. Like I said, do a search on this forum for it... don't tell someone "playsand" is a problem. Explaining the differences in playsand would be a much better way to go.
J
jdragunas
Guest
ok, differences in play sand. It is ABSOLUTELY impossible for anyone to say that playsand IS bad for your tank. There are two types of playsand made. one is aragonite, and the other is silica. Both ARE OK to use in the aquarium, however, silica-based sand, because of it's surface, will house more bacteria, and allow algaes to grow on it better. This is the reason people say not to use silica based playsand in your tank. It's not toxic to your fish at all. Silicates are, however, this is completely different from silica-based sand.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
ok, differences in play sand. It is ABSOLUTELY impossible for anyone to say that playsand IS bad for your tank. There are two types of playsand made. one is aragonite, and the other is silica. Both ARE OK to use in the aquarium, however, silica-based sand, because of it's surface, will house more bacteria, and allow algaes to grow on it better. This is the reason people say not to use silica based playsand in your tank. It's not toxic to your fish at all. Silicates are, however, this is completely different from silica-based sand.
Sounds good to me, although I don't know a lot about silicates, silica-based sand, etc.
don't forget the other benefits of aragonite sand, too. Buffers pH, provides calcium, smoother edges for inverts to live in...
But, yes, we agree on the main point: You cannot say "don't use playsand". Too many people have proven that aragonite sand is aragonite sand. The pretty packaging and price tag don't change the ingredients.
ok, differences in play sand. It is ABSOLUTELY impossible for anyone to say that playsand IS bad for your tank. There are two types of playsand made. one is aragonite, and the other is silica. Both ARE OK to use in the aquarium, however, silica-based sand, because of it's surface, will house more bacteria, and allow algaes to grow on it better. This is the reason people say not to use silica based playsand in your tank. It's not toxic to your fish at all. Silicates are, however, this is completely different from silica-based sand.
Sounds good to me, although I don't know a lot about silicates, silica-based sand, etc.
don't forget the other benefits of aragonite sand, too. Buffers pH, provides calcium, smoother edges for inverts to live in...
But, yes, we agree on the main point: You cannot say "don't use playsand". Too many people have proven that aragonite sand is aragonite sand. The pretty packaging and price tag don't change the ingredients.
puffer32
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
There is some false information here...
Aragonite playsand is perfect for an aquarium (I've got 700lbs of southdown in my tank. Do a search for southdown on this forum)
The cycle goes ammonia>NITRITE>NITRATE
Fish are not more sensitive than inverts... just the opposite.
Inverts, as a whole, are far more sensitive to water parameters than fish
Nitrates will kill corals...
If you disagree with anything I've said, please post references. I believe everything I've stated is accepted as the "norm".
Agree 100% with everything you said!
There is some false information here...
Aragonite playsand is perfect for an aquarium (I've got 700lbs of southdown in my tank. Do a search for southdown on this forum)
The cycle goes ammonia>NITRITE>NITRATE
Fish are not more sensitive than inverts... just the opposite.
Inverts, as a whole, are far more sensitive to water parameters than fish
Nitrates will kill corals...
If you disagree with anything I've said, please post references. I believe everything I've stated is accepted as the "norm".
Agree 100% with everything you said!
kackey
New Member
Originally Posted by jdragunas
Kackey, we need to know your water parameters exactly. The LFS saying they're "fine" really can't help us much, as "fine" to them might not be so fine.
After reading your first post, i must ask, how exactly did you cycle your tank? I read that on aug. 14th, you began cycling your tank, but didn't add your LR or LS to the tank until Sept. 7th.
Here's the general jist of cycling:
1. introduce ammonia (feeding the tank as if a fish was there, or putting in a shrimp)
2. ammonia-eating bacteria grows and turns the ammonia into nitrites
3. nitrite-eating bacteria grows and turns the nitrites into nitrates
Since you didn't add your LR and LS to the tank until after this all happened, the only place that the bacteria grew on was your tank walls... This is not good. I would say that your tank, although cycled, was "under-cycled". When you added the fish to the tank, it probably kicked-off another cycle, because there wasn't enough ammonia-eating and nitrite-eating bacteria in your tank.
It is very possible for inverts to survive while fish die because of poor water problems... How do you think hitchikers always seem to survive on LR? Yes, inverts are more sensative to water quality, fish are more sensative to stress. So while the inverts only have to deal with poor water quality, the fish have to deal with that and stress. Because too many were introduced in such a short period of time, it is very plausible that the fish died of poor water quality, combined with stress.
Also, while inverts are sensative to water quality, they can survive in poor water quality, as long as you acclimate them properly. They're more sensative to quick water quality changes... not necessarily to water quality.
When was the last time you tested your water parameters? have you tested since the fish began dieing? Please test today and post all of your results so we can maybe get a better understanding of what's going in your tank. Without knowing any of your test results, it is impossible for us to continue this investigation as to why you lost your fish.
Please don't become disheartened. This is the most rewarding hobby in existance, IMO, and probably in the opinion of 99% of the people on this website. If you begin to let yourself become too disappointed, you'll never be able to truly enjoy yourself. It took me 4 months to stop killing fish. I haven't lost a fish since, and it's great. You just have to live and learn, and once you do, you'll be so glad you didn't give up because of your first big loss...
I started cycling 8/14 with 20lb live sand and 20lb crushed coral I kept the water and ditched the CC ,because of threads on this site. I added 40 lb LS,20 lb playsand, and 50lb and LR on 9/7 and raw shrimp. I kept records and watched parameters.I'm sure now from advice on this that I overloaded my system adding too fast,or that I brought in a sick fish I never saw my readings off,I tested the water like crazy.I tested today10/17 and here are the results,I have a drip test
[hr]
PH--8.4
[hr]
Nitrite(NO2)
[hr]
0
[hr]
AMM----0----Nitrate(NO3)----20ppm----Sal----1.024---temp--78
[hr]
Thanks to everyone,I'm watching my inverts and waiting.Kackey
Kackey, we need to know your water parameters exactly. The LFS saying they're "fine" really can't help us much, as "fine" to them might not be so fine.
After reading your first post, i must ask, how exactly did you cycle your tank? I read that on aug. 14th, you began cycling your tank, but didn't add your LR or LS to the tank until Sept. 7th.
Here's the general jist of cycling:
1. introduce ammonia (feeding the tank as if a fish was there, or putting in a shrimp)
2. ammonia-eating bacteria grows and turns the ammonia into nitrites
3. nitrite-eating bacteria grows and turns the nitrites into nitrates
Since you didn't add your LR and LS to the tank until after this all happened, the only place that the bacteria grew on was your tank walls... This is not good. I would say that your tank, although cycled, was "under-cycled". When you added the fish to the tank, it probably kicked-off another cycle, because there wasn't enough ammonia-eating and nitrite-eating bacteria in your tank.
It is very possible for inverts to survive while fish die because of poor water problems... How do you think hitchikers always seem to survive on LR? Yes, inverts are more sensative to water quality, fish are more sensative to stress. So while the inverts only have to deal with poor water quality, the fish have to deal with that and stress. Because too many were introduced in such a short period of time, it is very plausible that the fish died of poor water quality, combined with stress.
Also, while inverts are sensative to water quality, they can survive in poor water quality, as long as you acclimate them properly. They're more sensative to quick water quality changes... not necessarily to water quality.
When was the last time you tested your water parameters? have you tested since the fish began dieing? Please test today and post all of your results so we can maybe get a better understanding of what's going in your tank. Without knowing any of your test results, it is impossible for us to continue this investigation as to why you lost your fish.
Please don't become disheartened. This is the most rewarding hobby in existance, IMO, and probably in the opinion of 99% of the people on this website. If you begin to let yourself become too disappointed, you'll never be able to truly enjoy yourself. It took me 4 months to stop killing fish. I haven't lost a fish since, and it's great. You just have to live and learn, and once you do, you'll be so glad you didn't give up because of your first big loss...
I started cycling 8/14 with 20lb live sand and 20lb crushed coral I kept the water and ditched the CC ,because of threads on this site. I added 40 lb LS,20 lb playsand, and 50lb and LR on 9/7 and raw shrimp. I kept records and watched parameters.I'm sure now from advice on this that I overloaded my system adding too fast,or that I brought in a sick fish I never saw my readings off,I tested the water like crazy.I tested today10/17 and here are the results,I have a drip test
[hr]
PH--8.4
[hr]
Nitrite(NO2)
[hr]
0
[hr]
AMM----0----Nitrate(NO3)----20ppm----Sal----1.024---temp--78
[hr]
Thanks to everyone,I'm watching my inverts and waiting.Kackey
salty cheese
Active Member
Rule of thumb and a safe bet is 1 fish every 2 weeks. :happyfish