Sand sifter: who's the best?
- Thread starter dcrawford
- Start date
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I too would like to see some discussion here. Nassarius snails DO sift the TOP layer pretty well, but since we need to sift the entire bed, they dont complete the job. So..... who is the best sand sifter that WILL complete the job and thrive. Dragon gobies seem to do a pretty good job from what I've seen, as well as Yellow headed sleeper gobies seem to. But are they about as good as it gets? Will every individual do the job? What about a good combination of maybe 2 or three different animals, what would be a good combination? Not to consider things like S.S. Starfish, horseshoe crabs, that wont thrive long term. Whats the best thing for stirring a sandbed?
scotts
Active Member
I have to admit my diamond goby did a great job stirring up the sand bed. Almost too good because the water was kind of cloudy and there was a light film on the rocks. The real bummer is that I found out the hard way they are jumpers. It jumped out of my 125 with a glass top. There is about a 2 inch space at the back of aquarium. I have heard other say they have jumped through the egg crate of their tanks. Too bad because they are really cool fish, but I won't get another one.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
No, they wont stir the whole thing all at once. That would be the problem with vacuuming it. I believe the banded bullet goby is the same as the dragon goby. They are awesome fish!
reefkprz
Active Member
IMO you dont want to shift the entire sand bed you ONLY want to shift the top inch at most other wise you can destroy your anoxic and anaerobnic zones, doing more harm than good. the best IMO to keep your sand bed healthy are nassarius vibex, and various bristleworm species. sand SHIFTING is desired sand SIFTING is not as sand sifters (fish, stars, cucumbers etcetera) eat the little buggers that make for a healthy sand bed. healthy does not mean sparkeling white. healthy may not be sparkeling all the time but its not gross either. proper flow to keep detritus from setteling on the sand bed and keeping flow through the aerobic zones of your sand bed is also one of the most important factors and often the most overlooked factor in maintaining a healthy sand bed.
waterlogged
Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
IMO you dont want to shift the entire sand bed you ONLY want to shift the top inch at most other wise you can destroy your anoxic and anaerobnic zones, doing more harm than good. the best IMO to keep your sand bed healthy are nassarius vibex, and various bristleworm species. sand SHIFTING is desired sand SIFTING is not as sand sifters (fish, stars, cucumbers etcetera) eat the little buggers that make for a healthy sand bed. healthy does not mean sparkeling white. healthy may not be sparkeling all the time but its not gross either. proper flow to keep detritus from setteling on the sand bed and keeping flow through the aerobic zones of your sand bed is also one of the most important factors and often the most overlooked factor in maintaining a healthy sand bed.
How do you recommend placing powerheads for proper flow?
By the way, in the book "the conscientious marine aquarist" by Robert Fenner, he recommends vacuuming the substrate.
IMO you dont want to shift the entire sand bed you ONLY want to shift the top inch at most other wise you can destroy your anoxic and anaerobnic zones, doing more harm than good. the best IMO to keep your sand bed healthy are nassarius vibex, and various bristleworm species. sand SHIFTING is desired sand SIFTING is not as sand sifters (fish, stars, cucumbers etcetera) eat the little buggers that make for a healthy sand bed. healthy does not mean sparkeling white. healthy may not be sparkeling all the time but its not gross either. proper flow to keep detritus from setteling on the sand bed and keeping flow through the aerobic zones of your sand bed is also one of the most important factors and often the most overlooked factor in maintaining a healthy sand bed.
How do you recommend placing powerheads for proper flow?
By the way, in the book "the conscientious marine aquarist" by Robert Fenner, he recommends vacuuming the substrate.
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
How do you recommend placing powerheads for proper flow?
By the way, in the book "the conscientious marine aquarist" by Robert Fenner, he recommends vacuuming the substrate.
if the substrate in question is crushed coral then I agree, if the substrate is sand then I disagree with Mr. Fenner.
powerhead placement depends on many factors, like size of the tank, number of powerheads, size of powerheads, aquascaping structure, and more. basicly if you feed your aquarium flake food and any settles to the bottom anywhere in the tank, there isnt enough flow there. you either need to redirect flow or cause a surging (or a changing flow) effect that will keep light organic matter suspended so it can be filtered out by your filteration (skimmer, overflow, mechanical filtraion, filter feeders etcetera) there really is no exact answer to the question the way you asked it. but I shall suffice it to say there are no stagnant spots in the ocean, even low flow areas have a surge from wave action that can suspend a suprisingly heavy piece of organic waste. while flow isnt fast the water movement is something we have been trying to achieve in our tanks properly for a long time and perfect flow is damn hard to get right. the evolution of powerheads and wavemakers will attest to that. the wave2k style stuff is the newest step and the closest to the real thing. but salt spray from devices like that are a serious draw back..... sorry I'm rambeling. this is a subject that could consume hours or days of my time discussing and still not explain it all.
in summation: conflicting turbulent/surging flow is the best you dont want nio flow zones, you dont want pockets where stuff settles, the flow over sand maintains the flow under the sand, the critters in the sand keep the particles seperated so your sand bed can "breathe"
How do you recommend placing powerheads for proper flow?
By the way, in the book "the conscientious marine aquarist" by Robert Fenner, he recommends vacuuming the substrate.
if the substrate in question is crushed coral then I agree, if the substrate is sand then I disagree with Mr. Fenner.
powerhead placement depends on many factors, like size of the tank, number of powerheads, size of powerheads, aquascaping structure, and more. basicly if you feed your aquarium flake food and any settles to the bottom anywhere in the tank, there isnt enough flow there. you either need to redirect flow or cause a surging (or a changing flow) effect that will keep light organic matter suspended so it can be filtered out by your filteration (skimmer, overflow, mechanical filtraion, filter feeders etcetera) there really is no exact answer to the question the way you asked it. but I shall suffice it to say there are no stagnant spots in the ocean, even low flow areas have a surge from wave action that can suspend a suprisingly heavy piece of organic waste. while flow isnt fast the water movement is something we have been trying to achieve in our tanks properly for a long time and perfect flow is damn hard to get right. the evolution of powerheads and wavemakers will attest to that. the wave2k style stuff is the newest step and the closest to the real thing. but salt spray from devices like that are a serious draw back..... sorry I'm rambeling. this is a subject that could consume hours or days of my time discussing and still not explain it all.
in summation: conflicting turbulent/surging flow is the best you dont want nio flow zones, you dont want pockets where stuff settles, the flow over sand maintains the flow under the sand, the critters in the sand keep the particles seperated so your sand bed can "breathe"
dcrawford
Member
Just to clarify the nassarius vibex species. Is this the same as the nassarius being sold on this website. If so, is there a difference in the work rate of the "fancy nassarius" and the not so fancy nassarius.
Flow + pods + moderate sand "shifters" = healthy sand bed.
I wish there was a way of testing to see if your sand bed is healthy. Is it as simple as:
visible pods
no stagnant areas
2-3" of sand
a set of critters that rototil the top inch
Flow + pods + moderate sand "shifters" = healthy sand bed.
I wish there was a way of testing to see if your sand bed is healthy. Is it as simple as:
visible pods
no stagnant areas
2-3" of sand
a set of critters that rototil the top inch
ophiura
Active Member
If you want a functional deep sand bed you do not want any sand sifting fish or stars or horseshoe crabs as they EAT the beneficial fauna in a sand bed. Avoid them.
Stars and horseshoe crabs will also likely die well before their time. The stars have a chance in tanks with large sand beds - say 100g + minimum without a lot of rock. But most of these will die within 18 months in smaller tanks, of starvation. Horseshoe crabs tend to die much sooner. So success with both of these is measured in at least a year, at a minimum.
Obviously their is something wrong if the cucumber has stopped eating, and I would pay real careful attention to all of your parameters and have them double checked elsewhere. Specific gravity, nitrate, alk, calcium and pH would be primary concerns in an established tank. Whenever an animal stops eating, we should be concerned...very concerned...and adding another animal may not help this at all.
I would not consider sea cucumbers sand sifters, personally...they consume detritus and sand grains and digest the organics...they are not active predators on the worms and crustaceans (as are the stars, horseshoe and fish...frankly as well as hermits and other crabs).
Stars and horseshoe crabs will also likely die well before their time. The stars have a chance in tanks with large sand beds - say 100g + minimum without a lot of rock. But most of these will die within 18 months in smaller tanks, of starvation. Horseshoe crabs tend to die much sooner. So success with both of these is measured in at least a year, at a minimum.
Obviously their is something wrong if the cucumber has stopped eating, and I would pay real careful attention to all of your parameters and have them double checked elsewhere. Specific gravity, nitrate, alk, calcium and pH would be primary concerns in an established tank. Whenever an animal stops eating, we should be concerned...very concerned...and adding another animal may not help this at all.
I would not consider sea cucumbers sand sifters, personally...they consume detritus and sand grains and digest the organics...they are not active predators on the worms and crustaceans (as are the stars, horseshoe and fish...frankly as well as hermits and other crabs).
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by dcrawford
Just to clarify the nassarius vibex species. Is this the same as the nassarius being sold on this website.
no this website sells Ilyanassa obsoleta in the same Family, Nassariidae as that of of nassarius vibex, but they are truly suited better for cooler waters than our reef tanks run at shortening their lives due to an overactive metabolism from the heat. they also capture and consume minute worms (in the family Spionidaethe) in their natural environment who knows what other species of sand microfauna they dine on in the unnatural habitat of our reef tanks. only advantage over nassarius vibex that illyanassa offers is its FAR cheaper than true vibex. of course this only benifits the seller or the SMART consumer that only pays what they are worth. I wouldnt pay half as much for illyanassa as I would for vibex.
IMO due to their truncated lifespan Ilyanassa obsoleta aren't worth their weight in dead sand, as you will have to replace them 10x more often then you will nassarius vibex. unless or course you want empty snail shells for youer hermit crabs......
Just to clarify the nassarius vibex species. Is this the same as the nassarius being sold on this website.
no this website sells Ilyanassa obsoleta in the same Family, Nassariidae as that of of nassarius vibex, but they are truly suited better for cooler waters than our reef tanks run at shortening their lives due to an overactive metabolism from the heat. they also capture and consume minute worms (in the family Spionidaethe) in their natural environment who knows what other species of sand microfauna they dine on in the unnatural habitat of our reef tanks. only advantage over nassarius vibex that illyanassa offers is its FAR cheaper than true vibex. of course this only benifits the seller or the SMART consumer that only pays what they are worth. I wouldnt pay half as much for illyanassa as I would for vibex.
IMO due to their truncated lifespan Ilyanassa obsoleta aren't worth their weight in dead sand, as you will have to replace them 10x more often then you will nassarius vibex. unless or course you want empty snail shells for youer hermit crabs......
dcrawford
Member
Thanks Ophiura,
My parameters that I have tests for are:
salinity 1.025
PH 8.2-8.4
DKH 7.0-8.0
Phosphates 0 (best as I can tell from the tester)
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 5 (very low)
Calcium 420
Ammonia 0
Water flow: I have 2 rio 1700 and a mag 7 plus a small spot pump for a stagnant area.
I do battle cyno about every 8 months and treat with UltraLife Reef red slime remover. I don't like to but it seems to work, for about 8 months.
The sand sifter cucumber I had for about 2 years and there are lots of little pods running around the sand. When I got him, he was 4 inches long grew to 5 inches and now he is 3 inches and barely moves. He hides in the rock and doesn't eat.
Not sure what to do about the guy, except for maybe making the sand bed as healthy as possible.
thx,
DC
My parameters that I have tests for are:
salinity 1.025
PH 8.2-8.4
DKH 7.0-8.0
Phosphates 0 (best as I can tell from the tester)
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 5 (very low)
Calcium 420
Ammonia 0
Water flow: I have 2 rio 1700 and a mag 7 plus a small spot pump for a stagnant area.
I do battle cyno about every 8 months and treat with UltraLife Reef red slime remover. I don't like to but it seems to work, for about 8 months.
The sand sifter cucumber I had for about 2 years and there are lots of little pods running around the sand. When I got him, he was 4 inches long grew to 5 inches and now he is 3 inches and barely moves. He hides in the rock and doesn't eat.
Not sure what to do about the guy, except for maybe making the sand bed as healthy as possible.thx,
DC