Sand sifter: who's the best?
- Thread starter dcrawford
- Start date
dcrawford
Member
Thanks ReefkprZ,
I had a small crew of Ilyanassa obsoleta several years ago. I know what you mean about their life span. One of the shells acts as a piece of pottery for a small feather duster in the tank. It's is truely funny. I'll see if I can get a picture of that.
I do want to add some vibex to help the sand bed.
DC
I had a small crew of Ilyanassa obsoleta several years ago. I know what you mean about their life span. One of the shells acts as a piece of pottery for a small feather duster in the tank. It's is truely funny. I'll see if I can get a picture of that.
I do want to add some vibex to help the sand bed.
DC
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by dcrawford
I wish there was a way of testing to see if your sand bed is healthy. Is it as simple as:
visible pods
no stagnant areas
2-3" of sand
a set of critters that rototil the top inch
till the top inch without "sifting" yes.
the way to know if your sand bed is healthy is to look close you will see microfauna everywhere, pods scurrying after lights out, polychaete worm tunnels against your glass, hair worms in their tubes, from the bottom you'll see pockets of anoxic bacteria, even minor algae growth between the sand and glass on the sides.
the signs of an unhealthy sand bed are farily obvious (but of course can also be indicative of other problems as well. ammonia, nitrites, excess nitrates, rampant nuiscance algae growth accross the sand, cyanobacteria blooms originating at the sand bed level.
I wish there was a way of testing to see if your sand bed is healthy. Is it as simple as:
visible pods
no stagnant areas
2-3" of sand
a set of critters that rototil the top inch
till the top inch without "sifting" yes.
the way to know if your sand bed is healthy is to look close you will see microfauna everywhere, pods scurrying after lights out, polychaete worm tunnels against your glass, hair worms in their tubes, from the bottom you'll see pockets of anoxic bacteria, even minor algae growth between the sand and glass on the sides.
the signs of an unhealthy sand bed are farily obvious (but of course can also be indicative of other problems as well. ammonia, nitrites, excess nitrates, rampant nuiscance algae growth accross the sand, cyanobacteria blooms originating at the sand bed level.
waterlogged
Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
If you want a functional deep sand bed you do not want any sand sifting fish or stars or horseshoe crabs as they EAT the beneficial fauna in a sand bed. Avoid them.
Stars and horseshoe crabs will also likely die well before their time. The stars have a chance in tanks with large sand beds - say 100g + minimum without a lot of rock. But most of these will die within 18 months in smaller tanks, of starvation. Horseshoe crabs tend to die much sooner. So success with both of these is measured in at least a year, at a minimum.
Obviously their is something wrong if the cucumber has stopped eating, and I would pay real careful attention to all of your parameters and have them double checked elsewhere. Specific gravity, nitrate, alk, calcium and pH would be primary concerns in an established tank. Whenever an animal stops eating, we should be concerned...very concerned...and adding another animal may not help this at all.
I would not consider sea cucumbers sand sifters, personally...they consume detritus and sand grains and digest the organics...they are not active predators on the worms and crustaceans (as are the stars, horseshoe and fish...frankly as well as hermits and other crabs).
What do you reccomend for a cleaner crew?
If you want a functional deep sand bed you do not want any sand sifting fish or stars or horseshoe crabs as they EAT the beneficial fauna in a sand bed. Avoid them.
Stars and horseshoe crabs will also likely die well before their time. The stars have a chance in tanks with large sand beds - say 100g + minimum without a lot of rock. But most of these will die within 18 months in smaller tanks, of starvation. Horseshoe crabs tend to die much sooner. So success with both of these is measured in at least a year, at a minimum.
Obviously their is something wrong if the cucumber has stopped eating, and I would pay real careful attention to all of your parameters and have them double checked elsewhere. Specific gravity, nitrate, alk, calcium and pH would be primary concerns in an established tank. Whenever an animal stops eating, we should be concerned...very concerned...and adding another animal may not help this at all.
I would not consider sea cucumbers sand sifters, personally...they consume detritus and sand grains and digest the organics...they are not active predators on the worms and crustaceans (as are the stars, horseshoe and fish...frankly as well as hermits and other crabs).
What do you reccomend for a cleaner crew?
dcrawford
Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
till the top inch without "sifting" yes.
the way to know if your sand bed is healthy is to look close you will see microfauna everywhere, pods scurrying after lights out, polychaete worm tunnels against your glass, hair worms in their tubes, from the bottom you'll see pockets of anoxic bacteria, even minor algae growth between the sand and glass on the sides.
the signs of an unhealthy sand bed are farily obvious (but of course can also be indicative of other problems as well. ammonia, nitrites, excess nitrates, rampant nuiscance algae growth accross the sand, cyanobacteria blooms originating at the sand bed level.
Here are a few sections of the sand bed. What do you see in the way of health?
till the top inch without "sifting" yes.
the way to know if your sand bed is healthy is to look close you will see microfauna everywhere, pods scurrying after lights out, polychaete worm tunnels against your glass, hair worms in their tubes, from the bottom you'll see pockets of anoxic bacteria, even minor algae growth between the sand and glass on the sides.
the signs of an unhealthy sand bed are farily obvious (but of course can also be indicative of other problems as well. ammonia, nitrites, excess nitrates, rampant nuiscance algae growth accross the sand, cyanobacteria blooms originating at the sand bed level.
Here are a few sections of the sand bed. What do you see in the way of health?
reefkprz
Active Member
Originally Posted by dcrawford
Here are a few sections of the sand bed. What do you see in the way of health?
all those bubbles trapped in the top inch are a bad sign, they indicate that the top layer isnt getting turned over enough to release gasses at a controlled rate from your sand bed, as anoxic and anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate they release by products as a gas that usually is slowly expelled though the activity of various sand dwelling critters, releasing it all at once could poison your tank. you can manually stir small sections with your fingers to release the trapped gasses (I wouldnt stir up more than a 6 inch square at a time) the bubbles however are a sign that you have good anoxic activity lower in the sand bed, thats a good thing, the areas of green and black can be good signs of anoxic activity and mild algae growth (that I mentioned before) the red though is cyano bacteria probably forming around areas of concentrated nutrients. by judging from the distance from the bottom band I would say you have about 3 inches of sand (give or take) wich is what I consider a hard depth to maintain properly as it is too shallow to be a proper DSB and too deep to be a shallow sand bed.
there are however good signs of worm activity shown from the micro tunnels in the sand, it just doesnt look like you have large tunnels cvaused by larger worms, the larger worms would be more likley to release the bubbles than the micro worms.
and thats my 2 cents on what I see there,
what are the chances of you posting a under the tank shot up at the bottom of the glass?
Here are a few sections of the sand bed. What do you see in the way of health?
all those bubbles trapped in the top inch are a bad sign, they indicate that the top layer isnt getting turned over enough to release gasses at a controlled rate from your sand bed, as anoxic and anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate they release by products as a gas that usually is slowly expelled though the activity of various sand dwelling critters, releasing it all at once could poison your tank. you can manually stir small sections with your fingers to release the trapped gasses (I wouldnt stir up more than a 6 inch square at a time) the bubbles however are a sign that you have good anoxic activity lower in the sand bed, thats a good thing, the areas of green and black can be good signs of anoxic activity and mild algae growth (that I mentioned before) the red though is cyano bacteria probably forming around areas of concentrated nutrients. by judging from the distance from the bottom band I would say you have about 3 inches of sand (give or take) wich is what I consider a hard depth to maintain properly as it is too shallow to be a proper DSB and too deep to be a shallow sand bed.
there are however good signs of worm activity shown from the micro tunnels in the sand, it just doesnt look like you have large tunnels cvaused by larger worms, the larger worms would be more likley to release the bubbles than the micro worms.
and thats my 2 cents on what I see there,
what are the chances of you posting a under the tank shot up at the bottom of the glass?
dcrawford
Member
Thanks ReefkprZ,
I was worried about the bubbles, now you confirmed I need to address the sand stirring issues. I have nothing in the tank moving the sand right now, except a protective clown that fans away sand from the Frogspawn in a 6x6 inch area. I think it would be fun to see if I could document the revival of my sand bed.
Unfortunately the under body of the tank is sitting on a stand, so I can't get a shot of that.
Good spot on the Cyno. I've had a recent breakout which seems to come about every 8 month or so. The picture are 1.5 days after I treated with Red Slime Remover. I fear the breakouts will come quicker if I don't get the sand bed healthy.
thx,
DC
I'll get some N. Vibex asap...
I was worried about the bubbles, now you confirmed I need to address the sand stirring issues. I have nothing in the tank moving the sand right now, except a protective clown that fans away sand from the Frogspawn in a 6x6 inch area. I think it would be fun to see if I could document the revival of my sand bed.
Unfortunately the under body of the tank is sitting on a stand, so I can't get a shot of that.
Good spot on the Cyno. I've had a recent breakout which seems to come about every 8 month or so. The picture are 1.5 days after I treated with Red Slime Remover. I fear the breakouts will come quicker if I don't get the sand bed healthy.
thx,
DC
I'll get some N. Vibex asap...
mach03infront
Member
inverts: i would go for a few Nassarius Snails, Queen conch(s) depending on how big your tank is or the florida sand sifting starfish.
fish: jawfish or any goby such as yellow watchmen or the diamond
fish: jawfish or any goby such as yellow watchmen or the diamond
princess8077
Member
Originally Posted by Mach03InFront
inverts: i would go for a few Nassarius Snails, Queen conch(s) depending on how big your tank is or the florida sand sifting starfish.
fish: jawfish or any goby such as yellow watchmen or the diamond
Does the yellow watchman take sand in thier mouths and sift it thru the gills like the diamond does?
inverts: i would go for a few Nassarius Snails, Queen conch(s) depending on how big your tank is or the florida sand sifting starfish.
fish: jawfish or any goby such as yellow watchmen or the diamond
Does the yellow watchman take sand in thier mouths and sift it thru the gills like the diamond does?
blazin2k6
Active Member
well i had Twin spot gobies, and they did an excellent job at sifting the sand but they also eat the critters in the sand also so. But they have recently mysteriously died. One i got recently would only sift the sand and wouldnt eat when i fed the other but the other one would eat directly from the turkey baster, brine shrimp and mysis shrimp but all of a sudden he died on me. Dont have any clue why though unless they just werent getting enough food i dont know. But i was watching the last one last night and he was fine then i walked away for 5 minutes and came back to look and i seen a nassarius snail sucking away at it. Poor fellow. Are nassarius snails just scavengers or will they also kill weak fish ? Thanks and also if you can point me in the direction of a good fish for a 24 gal aquapod that will stir the sand for me it would be cool.
mach03infront
Member
Originally Posted by Princess8077
Does the yellow watchman take sand in thier mouths and sift it thru the gills like the diamond does?
no mine just places sand from one side to the other side of the tank. i also see him hold little crush coral (small rocks) in his mouth pretty cool to watch
Does the yellow watchman take sand in thier mouths and sift it thru the gills like the diamond does?
no mine just places sand from one side to the other side of the tank. i also see him hold little crush coral (small rocks) in his mouth pretty cool to watch
camanuch
Member
are you gonna see the pods and other worms in a shallow bed as well. I am asking because I want to put a DSB in my fuge but still keep my shallow bed in my DT. Also should I be cleaning the shallow bed with my water changes? Shallow bed is about 1" deep and my DSB is going to be about 4-6"