Save My Tank!

[jds61403]

This is my first post so forgive my ignorance but I am desparate for some solutons. I am brand new to saltwater and I think the guy at the LFS makes everything sound WAY simpler than it is. Here's what I've got .....
- 10 gallon tank
- A very basic 10g filter system that came with the set-up
- A very basic incandescent lighting system
- Blue Damsel
- Yellow-tailed Damsel
- Chocolate Chip Starfish
- Clownfish
- About 6 or 7 pounds of base rock
Things I've previously killed
-Haitain Pink-tipped anemone
- 2 clownfish
-blue damsel
In my defense I think I have been getting screwed by the guy at the LFS and I understand now how complicated saltwater is. However I have sunk a lot of work and worry into this set-up and would like it to succeed on some level.
Problems:
-Levels often unexplainably fluctuate
-Bought "established" water when I started 2 1/2 months ago (didn't know about the cycling process beforehand)
Questions:
- Can a tank this small make it
- What equipment/process do I need to get my water stable
- Will this tank have to cycle?, need live rock?
I appreciate anyone willing to take the time to help me out and I'm sorry this is so long. I'm already addicted and love this hobby even though its brand new to me.

 

[fyi]

first I would suggest getting ALL livestock out of the tank and back to the store u got it from
second I say get some live rock for that tank, at least a few pounds.
third i say let it cycle
fourth i say get just ONE fish for a tank that size.. and think about some low light corals.

 

[mrmaroon]

Welcome to the hobby. This board will help you a lot. IMO, the first thing you need to do is find a good book and read it. Most people, especially beginners, have trouble keeping a tank that small. And many find that they wish they has a bigger tank down the road so that they can keep more things. If you decide to keep the 10g, I would take one or two of the fish back. It is really only meant ofr 1-2 fish. I would also take back the starfish. It is probably starving to death. And IMO, dont buy any more anemones. They are extremely hard to keep and are best left in the ocean.
As far as your water? DO you test it or have your LFS test it? How about water changes? You should plan on investing in a RO/DI water filter if you have not already. Tap water is not very good for these tanks. And do you have any more info on your filter?
Your lighting is Ok for now. I would focus on upgrading your tank size, filter, and getting an RO/DI.
Good luck and ask a lot of questions.

 

[alyssia]

I think your water levels are fluctuating so much because the tank is so small. Water parameters can be very unstable in smaller tanks. A problem can get out of hand REALLY quickly. The bigger the tank, the easier it is to keep your levels stable.
I would get at least 10 lbs of LR. It is recommended to have 1 to 1 1/2 lbs per gallon.
Your anemone died because the tank is so new and the lighting. No way can an anemone survive under that lighting!
Established water? Not sure about that one. :thinking:
Your tank has probably already cycled if you've had fish in it for 2 1/2 months.
BTW, did you have all those fish (inlcuding the dead ones) in there at the same time?

lfs....you get much better info here, no one on here is trying to make money off of you!
Wlecome to the boards. :joy:

 

[alyssia]

The book that is often recommended on here is The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner

 

[happyhourh]

IMO you should add some live rock for sure. This will help with the nitrogen cycle and is necessary for a healthy tank. A 10 gallon may prove to be quite difficult, if it were me, I would prob just spring for a bigger tank even a 25 or something where there is more room for error. Again, If it were me, I would try to take back the livestock and complete the cycle with live rock. Leaving livestock in a cycling tank is like bathing yourself in acid. Not pleasant for something to endure just because we cant wait long enough to properly start a tank before adding critters.
When I cycled my tank, I really enjoyed watching my rock come to life. Its like a grab bag of what you can wind up with in your tank. You can run your tank with just LR and powerheads once established and this will be enough filtration for a light bioload. You can keep the hang on filter you have and use it to run carbon and for flow. A Skimmer will make a nice leap in your filtration capabilities and I suggest running one.
As for water, be sure to use reverse osmosis/ de-ionized you can buy the units on an auction site for fairly cheap...this will pay itself off soon considering the cost of buying water for your top offs and water changes.
And most of all pick up a good book about the hobby and read it + keep asking lots of questions.

 

[jds61403]

Thanks for the advice so far. What I meant by "established" water is that the LFS said it would not have to cycle. I am going to set up a 30g or larger the right way in the next few weeks.
I have never had more than 4 small fish in there at once, and I test the water myself.
THANKS! As much as advice as you guys want to give is welcome.

 

[mrmaroon]

It is sill going to cycle b/c it is a new tank and filtration system. 4 fish is way too many. I may be a little to cautious but I only keep two clowns in my 55g (granted it has a lot of corals too). You should think about buying a real filter. They have hang-on-the-back skimmers that are ok. Run about $100.

 

[jds61403]

The LFS said 6 to 8 fish for a 10g. Shows what kind of advice I've been getting.
So if I add live rock to the tank it will still cycle and the current livestock will have to come out? Also, are 4 fish too many because of the wastes produced or what? I have been feeding the starfish freeze-dried peices of shrimp.
THANKS AGAIN!

 

[mrmaroon]

I would take your fish and starfish back and never go to that store again. Yes, it is b/c of the waste the produce and from the food they don't eat breaking down. If you add LR it will likely cycle again. If you add it slowly, 2-3 lbs. at a time, it will spike less. If I were you I would take as much back as you can and start over. You will have a lot more luck and fun with a larger tank.

 

[jds61403]

Here is one more extremely clueless question but what is the difference between a protein skimmer and a filter that uses replaceable cartridges. Is it one or the other, or are they used together? I was told a skimmer was not a concern for a 10g.

 

[ktsdad]

First off welcome to the boards jds!
Now I am going to throw in my .02$ worth.
Figure out which fish is your favorite and try to take back the others, especially the starfish. Your bioload is to high for a 10 gallon tank. Not all LFS will give your money back or store credit, if they will that is great. If you leave them in that small tank, they are all dead.
You have 6-7 pounds of live rock (base rock will work, just takes longer to become a very efficient bio-filter). That is good for a 10 gallon tank. Since you have had this rock and many fish in the tank, I would say the rock it cycled. The problem is that your bioload is too heavy for your filtration (rock and filter) to handle. Your tank is going threw mini-cycles, that is why your readings are varying. Get down to one fish and I will bet your levels will drop to where they need to be (amon 0, nitrIte 0, nitrate 0).
Do 10-15% water changes weekly. That will also help keep water consistant.
Your lights are not good enough for anything but fish (or inverts - shrimp, crabs etc.). Don't try to put in any corals. Your water quality isn't stable and your lights are to low to keep them alive.
I am a big fan of protein skimmers, but for a 10 gallon tank that may be overkill.
Just remember that patience are a big part of this hobby. You have to let nature do it's thing and fix your problems. Trying to keep a 10 gallon tank stable is a large task even for some of the most experienced folks in the business.
I understand you want to make this work and I hope some of my suggestions will help.
I am not a big fan of those who only offer up you spending more money to fix this problem.
If you are looking into a bigger tank, keep the 10 gallon and use it as a sump for your bigger tank. Go to the "Equipment & DIY" section for directions on how to do this.
Before you start your 30 gallon, do a search on cycling and you will get many ideas of how to do it properly from the start.
Good Luck

 

[ktsdad]

Originally Posted by jds61403
Here is one more extremely clueless question but what is the difference between a protein skimmer and a filter that uses replaceable cartridges. Is it one or the other, or are they used together? I was told a skimmer was not a concern for a 10g.
A protein skimmer used small air bubbles to remove bad stuff from the water column, to put it in simple terms.
Cartridges are usually "mechanical" filtration. The big stuff gets filtered out as the water flows threw the filter media. Some cartridges have carbon in them for more water cleansing.
A skimmer is a must for most tanks, IMO. But it would be overkill for a 10 gallon. Save your money and get a good one for your bigger tank you are thinking about.
Good Luck

 

[mrmaroon]

True. I would not buy a skimmer for a 10g. I meant that if the tank was upgraded to a 30g, it might not be a bad idea.

 

[oceanists]

Originally Posted by FYI
first I would suggest getting ALL livestock out of the tank and back to the store u got it from
second I say get some live rock for that tank, at least a few pounds.
third i say let it cycle
fourth i say get just ONE fish for a tank that size.. and think about some low light corals.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?! he has no businus even thinking about corals with his lighting and young tank ,second he could do well with 2 Perculas ...... few small fish .....a chocolate star gets pretty big but shrimp are ok , snails and crabs are fine get one nice size peice of LR let your tank cycle for 4-6 weeks with just rock

 

[ophiura]

AHHH, I've been there my friend

I've been there....and probably worse (I had no LR)
About 11 years ago I used one of my extra 10g, spare whisper hang on filter and extra undergravel filter...with some white gravel, 2 damselfish, 2 bar gobies, a brittlestar, a condylactus anemone, an arrow crab.
Most of those died real fast.
But I had one damsel for about 8 years.
In this case you are WAY ahead of me

Don't worry!!!
As mentioned, the tank is small. Small tanks actually require MORE care than larger. Things fluctuate a lot. Get your own test kits. Some livestock may need to be returned. Forget about getting an anemone.
If you have LR, a filter, stay on top of water changes, stick to one small fish and some inverts - yes possibly even some low light corals in the future (you may upgrade lighting) - you will be OK. It takes more care, but keep it simple and you will succeed.
If you are getting a larger tank, run the smaller as a QT for new fish or as the sump/refugium of the larger tank.
Your LFS has SERIOUSLY mislead you except on LR. THe water issue, the number of fish...all that is wrong information. "established" water is nothing more than water someone else would have thrown out...there is not enough bacteria in the water to really help, but you can inherit problems with water quality from the beginning.
The best thing you have done is ask questions. People will definitely help

What was done is done.

 

[unleashed]

i whole heartedly agree your lfs was looking for a quick sale (they love newbies) i have tris setting up a 10 gal after having very large systems keeping water quality to perfection is almost impossible without very good filtration.instead of a hang on filter try a canister filter such as a fluval meant for a somewhat larger tank.that may help conciderably.but as everyone else suggests i would also return most of these fish if not all of them to the lfs in which you purchased them.go streight to the maner with this situation and explain to them you were misinformed and found at a later date your tank isnt ready to keep this fish alive.if they cannot be sympathetic to your situation they dont deserve your buisness in the futureIMO