Save the BIG 3 or let them fail?

lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
ok......all three of those main dipsticks showed up in their $20,000 PLUS round trip private jets. ONE PERSON per jet. Yeah......way to make an impression.
Just my personal opinion...........put your arse in business class ( GASP!!!!)
with maybe a layover............if you work it right you can get back home before 9-10 PM so you don't have to spend extra $$$$ for a 1st class hotel.

Do it like the rest of us.......1-3 flights a day sometimes and get home before midnight so you don't get a hotel.

These clowns better not take their "peformance" bonuses
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally Posted by COWFISHRULE
http:///forum/post/2845839
i've belonged to a union before.
never again.

oh BTW, 2 friends of ours said the same thing. One worked for Ford and the Ford plant in Hazelwood MO closed.......union said "oh well..." the other worked for Chrysler and they shut down the van assembly........union said......
"hmmmm........sorry"

Look at how much UAW contributes to politicians.... there is the answer and problem.

 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Let them fail.
Henry Ford bailed out of his first endeavor (later known as Cadillac) and the world is still here. There hasn't been a "new" US car company in decades. Let them die already. We will be better off in the long run.
ps...I have lots of family employed by GM and if they tank it will hit very close to home. Let them tank.
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
You guys have to realize that this will affect far more than the big 3 employees around here. I agree with everyone that the major problem with the big 3 is that labor costs make it difficult or impossible for them to compete with the foreign companies. They probably have to sell 2-3 times as many vehicles to bring in the same profit.
However I'm torn because I have family and friends who work for the big 3. Imagine working for GM for 15 years, buying a house, starting a family and building a life. And now people are suggesting that the only way for you to keep your job is to cut your salary in half. I feel for these people.
Not to mention that, in areas of Michigan where a large percentage of the citizens work for the auto industry, the effects of a bankruptcy (or even a merger) will destroy many of the surrounding businesses. A lot of the restaurants, bars, retail stores, etc will no longer have a clientele. Fortunately I have security in my professional position, but trust me people, if you see 1 or more of the big 3 go down, Michigan will go into its own mini-depression. And it would be a very long time before this state could recover, as it's prominent industry for the past century will have failed.
And BTW, this isn't just a gift the companies are looking for. The assistance would be in the form of loans, which would be paid back with interest. Such an investment could be profitable for the US government.
In any event, I'm waiting for my Lincoln MKS... doing my part.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
The only reason I'd hate to see the Big 3 fail is because of the trickle-down affect it'll have on all their suppliers. I do contract work for one, and they've laid off 20% of their work force this year, and will most likely lay off another 10% in the next 6 months. So unfortunately, GM, Ford, and Chrysler aren't the only companies that get hurt here.
My take on the bailout is this - why don't they simply find a bank to loan them the money? A friend of mine told me a story today of when he first got married, he asked his dad if he could co-sign a loan for a house he wanted to buy. His dad asked him - If a bank can't trust you to pay off the loan, why should I? Bottom line, the Big 3 simply take their business strategies to the banks and show them how they will turn things around. If the banks don't believe or trust them, they won't get the loan. Next step, bankruptcy.
If the Big 3 do want to survive, they need to abolish the UAW. Although this organization has kept these companies running for several decades, it's time for them to bite the bullet and lower their demands if they want these auto manufacturers to stay in business. Neither Toyota, Honda, or Hyundai have unions. They pay a decent wage for a full day's work. If it works for them, it can work for the Big 3.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
http:///forum/post/2845858
oh BTW, 2 friends of ours said the same thing. One worked for Ford and the Ford plant in Hazelwood MO closed.......union said "oh well..." the other worked for Chrysler and they shut down the van assembly........union said......
"hmmmm........sorry"

Look at how much UAW contributes to politicians.... there is the answer and problem.


My old man was a UAW guy. They are as crooked as 40 miles of curvy highway. He was a union steward and CAP Councel committeeman.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
I don't want to see them fail.......its just that today it shows total management failure. Private jet to a meeting to plead a gazillion $$$ loan/bailout. Rid these companies of multiple layers of do nothing overpaid executives and not allow the UAW to finace their agenda.
"couldn't you all have just down graded to first class?" $20K vs $800-1000
first class???
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
They wont fail. They will reorganize.
I am not sure how much of a cut the employees need to take. They just need to have rules in place so they can fire lazy, dishonest or unneeded workers.
They had a 4th generation auto worker on FOX today and she told the story about the guy who clocked in and went to the bar down the street. He bragged about it so she would find out. She paged him at the bar and gave him a 30 day suspension. When he got back he thanked her for the vacation. She said thats fine if you can afford the loss of pay. He said "what loss of pay? the union renegotiated so administative leaves are fully paid now." She said it isn't all that uncommon to have people clock in and disappear for hours at a time.
I worked a union job and they fought the company when they fired a guy for shutting down the unit and going out to breakfast. IT WAS THE SECOND TIME HE HAD BEEN CAUGHT DOING IT,
 
lkgrenegade22

lkgrenegade22

Member
Let them fail. Everybody needs to learn lessons in life.
It's hard to feel sorry for companies that not too long ago were charging 5K-20K dealer markup over sticker on certain cars.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
"everybody" as in hundreds of thousands of people???????????? Not just the workers of the companies in question. Its called trickle down to the person that works on the copy machines that supply the paper to the company...... really........think about it. Really think about how far down or up it goes.
towns, business, schools, stores, restaurants........
management or mis-management and corrupt unions. period.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2845923
It's hard to feel sorry for companies that not too long ago were charging 5K-20K dealer markup over sticker on certain cars.

Let's go, start rattling names (of makes/models) off, please...
 
lkgrenegade22

lkgrenegade22

Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2845939
Let's go, start rattling names (of makes/models) off, please...
When I was looking at the C6 Z06's about a year ago the dealerships around me wanted 10K OVER sticker. Same exact thing with the Shelby GT500's from Ford. They aren't that way now, but they were for a good while.
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2845942
When I was looking at the C6 Z06's about a year ago the dealerships around me wanted 10K OVER sticker. Same exact thing with the Shelby GT500's from Ford. They aren't that way now, but they were for a good while.
Yeah.. dealers are lucky to get anything close to msrp now.. lol... definitely not a sportscar market right now.
 
lkgrenegade22

lkgrenegade22

Member
Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2845947
Yeah.. dealers are lucky to get anything close to msrp now.. lol... definitely not a sportscar market right now.
I agree, but a year ago they were trying to gouge everyone they could.
The new thing I have noticed around here at the dealerships is they will put aftermarket parts on the cars/trucks (wheels, tint, grills, etc.) add a RIDICULOUS fee (usually about twice what the parts actually cost) on for those parts and retain the stock parts. One of my friends bought a California Special Roush GT Mustang a few months back and I went with him. They had tacked on 8K in Roush parts to the sticker. I told him he should ask and get the stock stuff with the car since it came on it and they did not take any price off the aftermarket parts. He mentioned it, said he wanted his stock rims and stuff and they look lost. Said nobody had every had that request before. I was like GTFO, he's paying for the stuff in the original sticker price, it's his.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by LKGRenegade22
http:///forum/post/2845942
When I was looking at the C6 Z06's about a year ago the dealerships around me wanted 10K OVER sticker. Same exact thing with the Shelby GT500's from Ford. They aren't that way now, but they were for a good while.
So what? If people are willing to pay these prices what's it matter? You do realize that these people willing to pay over sticker, also are willing to pay for 'order slots' as well? Do you think when a new BMW M3 debuts, they sell at sticker? Or try to find a Nissan GT-R for sticker. Or better yet, go to California, and try to find a new Toyota Prius for sticker.
 
lkgrenegade22

lkgrenegade22

Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/2845954
So what? If people are willing to pay these prices what's it matter? You do realize that these people willing to pay over sticker, also are willing to pay for 'order slots' as well? Do you think when a new BMW M3 debuts, they sell at sticker? Or try to find a Nissan GT-R for sticker. Or better yet, go to California, and try to find a new Toyota Prius for sticker.
There were plenty of people that ordered the cars and paid the markup. Good for them. There were also a bunch of cars that never sold with the markup and ended up selling for less than sticker, wherein lies my point...they shouldn't have been that greedy in the 1st place.
Also it will be a cold day in hell before I ever buy a prius.
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
A few guys I know in houston have R33s... I've wanted to borrow one of their cars and take it to a nissan dealer and be like "so what will ya give me for trade in towards a new one?" ROFL... I bet the sales guys would flip out at the whole RHD thing.
BTW... R33 skyline GTR is defintely my fave import and the Nismo 400R is just icing on the cake lol.
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Originally Posted by Squidward
http:///forum/post/2845193
Typical let's blame it all on the unions. Typical republican responses.

Typical Democrat response, don't hold anyone accountable right? Just throw money at it, it's Japan, Korea, and Germanys fault for making cars too good....What gives them the right

Someone needs to be held accountable.
 
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