SCInet question for you?

[sleasia]

Just a quick question...on one of your stand threads you mentioned using "building foam" under the tank to help compensate for imperfections. the new glass 150 I am setting up has two plastic "braces" which run under the tank bottom as supports I guess. they are connected to the black plastic rim which goes around the base of the tank....being that this is a glass tank, and will carry alot of lbs of LR, sand, etc. for a reef setup, I was worried about these braces causing the tank bottom to crack on me. If I sit the tank down on a sheet of 1/2 or 3/4 inch building styrofoam will this be ok? I think these braces are about 1/8 - 1/4 inch thick. Or do you think I should cut them off? I'm not sure what I should do about them. the tank originally sat on a metal frame stand, so in that set up it wasn't an issue. I'm at work now so don't have a good pic. I could post one tomarrow.

 

[acrylic51]

Sorry to butt in, but foam under a tank is to take up minor imperfections as you stated........Some tank manufacturers recommend this and some don't.....To be totally on the safe side I would contact the manufacturer on that question, because it could void your warranty, and alot of times if you don't put the tank on a manufacturers stand your warranty is void as well, so it might not make a difference......You should not cut the bracing away from the tank.....
The bracing actually sits up against the glass and should be level with the bottom of the tank, so there shouldn't be any undue stress on the tank, but again contact the manufacturer to be sure. If you do sit it on foam you will be totally amazed that the foam will compact very little if any that is really noticeable.....I have mine sitting on 3/4" foam and totally full of water you couldn't even tell......

 

[sleasia]

thanks acrylic 51...no warranty on the tank since its a freebie...you see my worry is that even though the braces are "even" with the rest of the tank bottom's support, since its glass, I was worried about all the weight of the LR stressing the glass on either side of the braces, where it will float 1/8 - 1/4" above the counter type stand . do you think I should use the foam or not...I was thinking I should, otherwise I could cut pieces of pegboard, which is about the same thickness to place in between the braces for added support?

 

[sleasia]

I think there are only two braces on a 6 ft tank so that leaves about 2ft sq of glass on either side of the braces...quite a large section of unsupported glass.

 

[zman1]

sleasia,
The thin plastic bracing is there to prevent the frame from bowing (front to back) and causing a seal failure. Tempered glass is susceptible to pin point pressure. In my opinion having rock sit on sand is better than rock sitting directly on glass to reduce pinpoint pressure. Again my opinion, I would only use foam on acrylic if I were inclined to use it at all.

 

[acrylic51]

Most good acrylic tank builders don't recommend putting foam under an acrylic tank.......I think you'd be perfectly fine putting the tank on foam....If your still alittle nervous about it you could put a layer of neoprene under it.....It's thin, rubber like gasket material.....I think you can get it from like McMasters online........Actually I think if you search out RobChucks' thread on his build of his system I think that is what he used under his tank as well......

 

[clekchau]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Most good acrylic tank builders don't recommend putting foam under an acrylic tank.......I think you'd be perfectly fine putting the tank on foam....If your still alittle nervous about it you could put a layer of neoprene under it.....It's thin, rubber like gasket material.....I think you can get it from like McMasters online........Actually I think if you search out RobChucks' thread on his build of his system I think that is what he used under his tank as well......
yikes all the ones i went to recommended this is there a disadvantadge to putting foam under an acrylic tank?

 

[acrylic51]

It will vary from builder to builder.......Like AGA and such don't think that is key with them, but like Tom at GlassCages it says right on the tag that comes with the tank and specifies 3/4" foam.......To be on the safe side ask if in doubt if that's what you want to do.

 

[clekchau]

well the builder i chose, midwest custom aquariums not only recommends it, he won't honor his lifetime warranty without it. hopefully there won't be a problem down the line :crosses fingers:

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by clekchau
well the builder i chose, midwest custom aquariums not only recommends it, he won't honor his lifetime warranty without it. hopefully there won't be a problem down the line :crosses fingers:
That's what I'm saying just ask the manufacturer......Did you check Envisions before you decided on who was going to build for you?

 

[clekchau]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
That's what I'm saying just ask the manufacturer......Did you check Envisions before you decided on who was going to build for you?
yep i got a quote from envision, socalcreations, glasscages, tenecor and midwest. all about the same give or take, midwest was able to design my overflow and sump the way i wanted it and shipping was alot cheaper.
james at envision i heard was the "best" acrylic builder though, not sure if he recommends styrofoam or not.

 

[scsinet]

*Sniff Sniff* this is the first time someone specifically asked me a question on the forum. **gets misty eyed** I'm touched!
Yeah okay so I put building foam under acrylic tanks but not glass.
Let me put it to you this way... All fish tanks are designed to sit as provided on the hypothetical "perfectly flat surface." If the braces are there under the tank, they are there for a reason, so no, you don't remove them.
Acrylic is more flexible than glass so generally acrylic tanks with flat bottoms need more continuous support along their entire bottom surface.
All of my glass tanks sit directly on the stand, but I design stands to provide this flat surface. When I build a stand, I design it so the tank sits on either a face frame or directly on the stand's structural frame (2x4s, 2x6s, etc). In either case, I run these items through a table saw or a jointer to make them perfectly true and flat, so there is no need for foam in those cases.
If the tank and stand you obtained were from the same source and were previously used together, I'd tend to think you could continue using them just as is without any problems. As Acrylic stated, you're dealing with warranty issues here. Foam is really something that is either specified by the manufacturer or is used when custom building stands. When you are using a DIY stand, the warranty is voided anyway.
As for your rock, there are two schools of thought on this. Zman makes a good point. The sand will serve to spread out the load and prevent the rock from exerting a lot of weight on a very small spot, something that can easily shatter glass. The other school of thought is to place it on the glass and fill in the sand around that. The thinking here is that it will keep burrowing animals from causing a rock collapse, and will prevent detritus accumulation.
I have a good compromise, but I will confess I've not tried it yet.
Lay eggcrate across your entire tank bottom, put in sand to just fill the squares of the eggcrate, then put the rock in, then the rest of the sand. The eggcrate will discourage burrowing too deep, will help to keep the rocks steady (the 'compartments' will grab little points of the rock and keep it from sliding), and will help to distribute the weight.

 

[clekchau]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
When you are using a DIY stand, the warranty is voided anyway.
not always the case, at least not with my builder

 

[scsinet]

Sorry.. meant to say usually.

 

[cgrant]

When i purchased my 210 i called aga and asked them exactly how they recommend setting up the tank, They did mention NOT to use foam as they have had issues with tanks leaking from uneven pressure when/if the foam got wet. So basically they said they have had issues with the foam getting wet and packing down and that would cause the tank to sit uneven.
She explained that aga would not insure the tank if setup with foam, they suggest only shimming the bottom of the stand to make it level, so you would level the stand.
edit: my 210 is glass

 

[acrylic51]

As stated each manufacturer will recommend something different......but as SCSInet stated with most major manufacturers like Oceanic, Tenecor, it will void the warranty.......

 

[sleasia]

well, I don't have a manufacturer. the tank is unmarked and was a freebie...someone "gave" it to me....and no markings....so I take it with a glass tank you should just set it on a perfectly level surface right down on the braces, and not put support under the areas which float 1/8-1/4 " above the stand surface???...I will be using sand anyway...I can put egg crate in the bottom like scinet suggested, fill it , put the rock in and fill again around the rockwork...this is a few weeks away yet. But I hope to move the tank in to the stand soon and wasn't sure whether to protect the bottom or not?

 

[sleasia]

ps..scinet, I didn't mean to make you cry

sorry

 

[scsinet]

You are correct, set it on the stand with no foam.
In fact, with my stands, the support structure just sits where the braces are, it's just open underneath the glass. When I had a pistol shrimp, I could stick my head under the stand with a flashlight and look right up through the bottom into his burrow.

 

[sleasia]

I guess the reason I became concerned is because a friend with a 100 gallon goldfish tank kept adding gravel and more gravel until I think he had 6-8" of gravel on the bottom of the tank, and guess what....surprise, it cracked and leaked all over...the tank is a "behind the wall" tank sitting on a 2x4 framed stand which does not have a flat top, only a frame. So I'm thinking that by the time you get your sand and live rock in, this approaches the same weight. thanks everyone.