Seahorse Tank - How do I cycle?

[dwhatley]

I am going to use an 8 gal hex show as a dwarf seahorse tank and I am not sure how to cycle it. I am starting with an undergravel filter, crushed coral substrate, Magnum HOT canister. I plan on feeding with a constant supply of live baby brine shrimp from a hatchery attached to the tank. Once I put the crushed coral and saltwater in the tank, can I start the shrimp growing to set up the cycle?
I plan to stock with a single cowrie snail, 2 lettuce nudibranchs and a marble Fromia starfish in addition to half a dozen or more dwarf seahorses.
I would appreciate cycling suggestions without buying throwaway fish. I do have 3 - 4 feeder guppies that got too big to eat that I would gladly sacrafice by bringing up the salinity slowly if that will work in addition to/in lieu of using the shrimp.
At what point can I add the snails (including the nudibranchs)?
Should the canister run from the beginning or stay off until the ammonia rises?
What is the best filter media to facilitate the cycling?
Thanks,
Denise

 

[ren99]

I thought I am starting to know a lot about salt water aquriums, but but,,,this sea horse stuff is obviously way beyond me.

 

[cowfishrule]

if you are going to do a species tank (seahorses), i would just keep it that. i would even go barebottom, or just a dusting of sand. i would use branches of live rock in the tank, something that they could grab onto. seahorses, if im correct, do not like a lot of water movement.
i would skip all the extra livestock, imo. maybe a turbo snail, at most.
also, i wouldnt do a cannister filter. for a tank this small, i would get a small hob filter.

 

[scubatiffy]

Be careful when choosing your filter. Because the dwarf seahorses (aka pixies and pygmies) are so little, they can easily get sucked into the filter. I placed some pantyhose around the opening which helped a lot. Even with this, every so often I'll find one stuck to it!
A word of advice after much research- don't put live rock in your tank. There's too much risk for these little guys. I would also suggest not adding anything more than what you have previously stated. Dwarf Seahorses breed like crazy, and you don't want to over load the biobed!

 

[dwhatley]

COWFISHRULE - As mentioned by scubatiffy, there is a great deal of danger creating a natural type envirnoment with seahorses. As I understand it, the giants need a reef, the dwarfs need minimum biologics. Many people recommend plastics. I will use one central seafan that fills the tank and not much else. Sand is out but the coral should be OK as long as I have cleaners. Since I want interesting cleaners, my choices have come from mutual recommendations by several experts in these little guys.
SCUBATIFFY - Thanks for the warning about my canister. I have already researched this and you are right, of course, about putting something fine over the intake. The best recommendation that I have read is to use a sponge (second the stocking) which will give some biological positives as well as not sucking up babies, tails or all the food. Even with the sponge, the filter will only be run at night - set on a timer. From my reading the dwarfs (unlike the giants) pose little overloading problem with the setup (one of the reasons for the canister) and I am hoping to maintain on going generations as they are short lived (about 2 years). Ideally, I will trade food for babies at my LFS or through internet sales.
Cycling info is my big issue at this time.
Thanks!
Denise

 

[mudplayerx]

Like others have said, make sure the water flow is relatively low. You will probably want to use aragonite or no substrate at all due to the low flow rate. Definately do not use crushed coral.
Make sure your seahorses have plenty of things to cling to (they like caulerpa). Also, do not mix fish of any kind with the seahorses as anything that moves faster than the seahorses is likely to outcompete them for food.
Seahorses also are extremely susceptable to disease.... extremely. Make sure you have a QT tank and all your meds available before you even buy them.

 

[cowfishrule]

Originally posted by dwhatley

Even with the sponge, the filter will only be run at night - set on a timer. From my reading the dwarfs (unlike the giants) pose little overloading problem with the setup (one of the reasons for the canister) and I am hoping to maintain on going generations as they are short lived (about 2 years). Ideally, I will trade food for babies at my LFS or through internet sales.
Cycling info is my big issue at this time.
Thanks!
Denise

you put a cannister filter on a 8gallon tank, and its going to be a washing machine, timer or no timer

 

[scubatiffy]

I am in the process of setting up a second SH tank. Right now, I have temp. put a piece of LR in it to help with they cycle. This will be taken out in about two weeks. I also purchased some bio stuff at my LFS that is suppose to help with the cycle. My ammonia level is perfect, my nitrates and nitrites are way out of the norm. Just waiting patiently for it to run it's course and do it's thing! I will probably get some damsels to put in their after everything reads ok just to ensure it has completed it's cycle. (They'll be moved to my reef tank before I get my ponies)
Thanks for doing your research on these beauties- they are so wonderful to have and it just blows my mind how many people get something without reading up on it!
Have you checked out seahorse.org? Great site!

 

[dwhatley]

Thanks for the reference to seahore.org - I missed that one and will direct my questions there since I may need a specialist ;>). They have a nice article on tank cycling and I think I WILL try pulling a shrimp out of the freezer rather than using (wasting) my brine and guppies. Please post or email me with your success/failure with the bacteria additive (and the name) as I would like to try it. The article suggests putting it in at the same time as the fish so I may just see if my LFS has one for saltwater and give it a shot (I saw no negatives just potential for spending money without results). My undergravel filter has still not arrived (first thing ordered - last to arrive) but I expect/hope to see it tomorrow. My canister MAY fit the undergravel and I am contemplating using it that way and putting a filter over the second tube. Any thoughts on this? My husband is afraid that I will not get enough filtration of the upper regions and I have read that sucking through the undergravel MIGHT hamper bacteria growth but I am reluctant to give up on the idea because of the seahorse's needs for calm water. Thanks again dwhatley@mindspring.com

 

[jobob]

im also doing a 10gal seahorse tank. i had it layin around. i got the tank set up it with sand and 6lbs live rock. i plan on useing a sea fan or a gorgonia. i wanted to have a pipe fish in there with the sea horses. i want to keep corals in there. so i got a pc 96watts, do u guys think its to much for the sh?

 

[dwhatley]

Jobob
You might want to put the light on for a while and watch the temp before you add the ponies. According to my reading, the light is a good thing though as it helps them see their food. Are you doing full size/giant, dwarf or pigmy? I have read several conflicting articles but most of the conflicts revolve around giants vs dwarf vs pigmy. The Atlantic dwarf are supposed to be relatively easy to raise for inlanders (like me) and can live on live brine shrimp hatchlings. I have purchased a "hatch n' Feeder" to provide a continuous supply of live food with supposedly minimum hassle (once a week cleaning). My tank is an 8 gallon show hex so it is 20" high rather than long and it positions the feeder nicely in the tankand allows for a LARGE seafan. The one precaution I read in several places suggests that the dwarfs are better kept in a minimized tank (no live rock, minimum substrate) because of a sensitivity to some of the creatures in live rock. My cable internet is down and I am using my laptop so I don't have access to the links but if you are interested, I will locate the articles and post.
"D"

 

[dwhatley]

Mudplayerx
My substrate is an argonite formula but is listed as crushed coral.
IF my month+ research has led me in the right direction (only one book so far - two on order - evenings searching out "expert" articles on the net and now forums for real time experiences ;>), The Gulf/Atlantic dwarf's are tremendously different than all the others. They thrive and breed well in a minimized SMALL tank (large is bad), should not be kept in reef style and live a normal life span (approximately 2 yrs) on newly hatched brine shrimp. The exact opposite is true of the others which do not breed in anything but a reef tank, need more space, are susceptible to all kinds of maladies and must be fed diffently as they mature. If anyone has in interest in starting a similar tank, please email me and I will detail my trials ;>)
"D"
dwhatley@mindspring.com

 

[jobob]

i think im goin to keep dwarfs, since i read they are the easiest to keep. i only have 3 pieces of live rock and about 1in of sand. i need to get a sea fan. but i have awhile since im still cycling.yes please send me the sites or post them. i need a hatchery for the shrimp.. i was thinkin of puting in a sandsifter goby, i dont think he will steal the food, cause he eats the (bugs) or shrimp from the sand. but im not sure.

 

[dwhatley]

Jobob
You might like to look into the Hatch'n Feeder as I almost gave up on the seahorses because of the mess and fuss for feeding them. I found mine at:
http://petdiscounters.com/customer/p...1&cat=0&page=1
I looked at several homemade setups but decided this thing was worth the money. The brine eggs stay in the unit and it is supposed to be able to use continuously with a cleaning every 10 days (I'll do weekly to keep a schedule). Most posts I read showed success with it and I has sawed up the top of my tank to easily accomodate removal (my tank has a build in cover which never are predrilled the way you want ;>).
I have spent the evening reading up on Bio Spira (fishgeeks) and think I am back to trying to cycle with the guppies and the Bio Spira then adding my cleaners and finally swapping the guppies for the seahorses.
I have posted there soliciting info on Bio Spira and saltwater - the thread complete with a large number of testimonials and experiments is very encouraging for a new tank
"D"

 

[dwhatley]

Jobob
There is a great article on seahorse.org on compatibiltiy and DEGREES of compatibility (thanks again scubatiffy - as it turns out I HAD seen and bookedmarked this article before but not taken the time to review the site - NOW I am registered)
http://www.seahorse.org/library/arti...ankmates.shtml
"D"

 

[scubatiffy]

Jobob- In my experience and research, I would not recommend live rock in your tank with dwarves."Dwarf seahorses are very susceptible to stings from the hydroids and Aiptasia anemones that often hitchhike on live rock, let alone predatory crabs and mantis shrimp. Conditions in a dwarf seahorse setup are ideal for Aiptasia and hydrozoans, which flourish on the ponies' daily diet of newly hatched brine shrimp, and can quickly explode to plague proportions." (Peter Giwojna) A dead sea fan works great as their is lots of room for them to hitch onto. IMO, KEEP IT SIMPLE! I only have ponies and snails in my tank with two fans.
D- I would side with your husband about the canister. I have a really great article if you want it- to long to post here but i'll email it to you if you want it. It explains almost everything you need to know about dwarf seahorses. Also, check out the Yahoo Group "Ocean Rider". Ocean Rider is a website that sells all different types of SH, and they sponsor the yahoo group. Very informed SH keepers, quick to respond as well!

 

[dwhatley]

ScubaTiffy
PLEASE do send the article (dwhatley@mindspring.com).
We did set up the tank today (undergravel FINALLY arrived) and are trying the through the under gravel method but slightly improvised. My undergravel came with a mini charcoal filter for the rizer tube top (I have not seen this before). Since the UGF has two openings available, we stuck the little filter above the substrate and blocked the airline tube opening. I may raise it later if I can find an appropriate lifter tube base but for now we just forced the cut off end of the first tube into the popout. We also improvised a sprayer to defuse the return flow more than the original exhaust. The flow is still questionable so we may add a few elbows to extend the defusion but I will get a better feel for the amount of movement when I add something to the tank. Right now it looks like most is at the top and I have a full 18" (20" high tank) below so I am hoping it will be ok as I have it. I will probably assemble the extension before I have the seahorses shipped just in case but will watch before adding it. I also started acclimating the guppies today and will add more salt daily to their little tank until the Bis Spira arrives.
"D"