Separate Refugium and Sump?

marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Currently I have a 20 gallon sump which includes a fuge in the center compartment for my 29 Gallon display.
However, I'm working on a 120 Gallon tank build and i'll be building a new sump out of either a 40 or 50 gallon breeder tank (whichever I can get first from CL or the $1 per gallon sale at ***** coming up in January).
After I move my fish over to the 120 gallon from the 29 gallon i'll have a 10 gallon tank, 20 gallon tank and 29 gallon tank that won't be in use.
I was thinking using either the 20 or 29 as the new quarantine tank (and the other as a top off reservoir) and then using either the 10 or 20 gallon as a separate refuge.
Would it be advisable to possibly run on of these as separate fuge along side the 40 gallon breeder sump?
Are there pro's or cons?
How would I go about configuring this?
Would I just have 2 compartments in the sump, filtration at intake and then a return chamber?
I was envisioning having the refugium tank accept runoff water from the return pump backpressure and then use either a overflow box or bulkhead to drain off water from the top of the fuge back into the sump?
Make sense?
 
robertmathern

robertmathern

Active Member
I did something similer on my old 180 gal. I used 2 big wet dry systems that I gutted. The first one I used to hold my skimmer with a baffle then a fuge with held chetao. Then I drilled and connected the second one with a 2" bulkhead (overkill). In the second one I had culpera in a second fuge then a baffle and then my return pump. It worked great to keep the 2 seperate algae actually seperate. To me it was a pian when they grew together and I would try to trim it as they would be all tangled.
Now you have glass but I have drilled all those sucessfully just go real slow. Or you will need 2 return pumps which is a waste IMO.
Looking back if I did this again I would do a couple things differently.
1: If I was to do the 2 fuges again I would but some light diffuser or something between the to fuges as algea seemed to get in there and clog it. Not a big deal as long as you keep your macros trimmed as they can not grow in the plumbing (no light) but not good to have it die in there.
2: If I was to actually do this again I would use 1 tank for the skimmer (make this campartment as large as possible. Of course have a baffle then a return pump. I would again have the skimmer campartment as large as possible and have the output going over the first wall of the baffle. Reason for this is to keep dirty water in the skimmer area as long as possible to get sucked up in the skimmer and when it goes through the skimmer it goes directly to the next compartment. So you are not skimming already skimmed water. Now I with the second overflow in your (assuming you have 2) I would run it to the fuge tank. Again a baffle then connect the to tanks so the fuge runs directly to the return pump.
It is my opinion that #2 would work better in hindsight but I never tried it. Just food for thought.
Also though if you want my real opinion it would be to sell all you unneeded tanks on CL and but as large as a tank you can for the sump. It make life a lot more simple and simple is good. The more simple and easy it is to maintain a system the more likely you will be successfull at it
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Agree.....Make your sump as large as you can if possible do it all in 1.....Not sure what your overall plan is, but when you initial look at the space beneath the tank your like wow!!!!! I have tons of room, but as you start adding stuff in that space is consumed rather quickly, and I think if your trying to keep everything under your stand you'll find you'll be cramped on space......Just my .02
 
xcali1985

xcali1985

Active Member
I run two different tanks for a sump and another for a fuge. My preference as it allows me to clean my sump and not have to worry about the fuge side. It has been a blessing. However as you can see I utilized all my space under my tank. These are both custom 50 gallon sumps So my filter area is 1/3 of my tank.
They are now plumbed together with a T and then connected to the pump. If you have the space I would recommend this. If not I would say use a single tank with decent compartments. I however, disagree with a comment above. Make the fuge area as big as you can, just make the sump area big enough to hold all your equipment. Ill search for an updated picture with it all up and running, or I will take a new picture later today.
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Thanks for the input everyone. I'm actually going right now to go look at a 40 gallon breeder tank I found on CL that will fit under my main tank. I'm have room behind the tank for a 10 gallon refugium. I'm playing with the idea of placing the fuge right behind the sump in the wall and the sump directly under the tank. Since I have the room that may be an option. I'm still unsure though I what I'm going to do.
I'm also toying with the idea of adding a algae scrubber. Been reading SnakeBlitz's posting about it and I'm intrigued.
Should be finishing up my drywal work and prime/paintl this week and putting the tank into place with all the plumbing.
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
So I did make up my mind to do a separate 10 gallon refugium that is connected to my 40 gallon sump. I've been trying to figure out how to plumb everything. here is what I am thinking.
Here is a rough layout of how I"m thinking of setting up the sump and refugium. Placing the refugium on a block and then drilling a hole for a bulk head to drain back into the return chamber of the sump. All the water the fuge will take in will be supplied by the return.

Here are some more complete, less obstructed views.
Back:

And Front:

Do you think there are any issues dropping my lines down and making the 3 90" turns?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Can you post a pic of just the return setup? I think you can run into problems there. Also with the small tank refuge sitting on a platform you lose water volume and running your sump at a level that will not overflow when you shut the system down you will lose even more water in the refug.
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Just the return would look as follows. I cut my baffles a bit shorter on my sump to allow headroom for an extra 5 gallons of water beyond what I will need for when the pumps are off on the main display. The refugium will only stay as full as the level I have the bulk head placed at. The valves should allow me to control all return channels to make sure most of my flow is going to my 2 returns to the display and then a very low flow goes into the refugium.
Should not have any flooding issues if the pump fails or shuts down. Was that the main concern? Or do you see a problem with the physics?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/393789/separate-refugium-and-sump#post_3504475
So I did make up my mind to do a separate 10 gallon refugium that is connected to my 40 gallon sump. I've been trying to figure out how to plumb everything. here is what I am thinking.
Here is a rough layout of how I"m thinking of setting up the sump and refugium. Placing the refugium on a block and then drilling a hole for a bulk head to drain back into the return chamber of the sump. All the water the fuge will take in will be supplied by the return.

Here are some more complete, less obstructed views.
Back:

And Front:

Do you think there are any issues dropping my lines down and making the 3 90" turns?
Might cause an issue, but not 100% sure....If anything might have to put what I'll call a breather in the lines.....The more bends in the design the more it "toys" with the setup though.....
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Yeah.. I'm not sure either. I may dry plumb it and give it a try. I also came up with a modification that may work. I can do one of two things to incorporate an algae scrubber into the overflow.
The first idea is to cap off the main siphon line so that the horizontal pipe becomes the algae scrubber line.

However, capping it may cause too much flow over the scrubber, so I think it may be better to leave the drop pipe in place but add a valve to control the back pressure of flow over the scrubber.

Thinking this could work. The overflow will be pushing a very decent amount of GPH, more then enough for a scrubber from what I've read! If I can fine tune it, adding a scrubber should be an easy modification.
I can light both sides of the scrubber conveniently by adding some reflective clamp on lamps on the sides of the tank walls.
Just an idea!
 
sweatervest13

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelFan http:///t/393789/separate-refugium-and-sump#post_3504541
Yeah.. I'm not sure either. I may dry plumb it and give it a try. I also came up with a modification that may work. I can do one of two things to incorporate an algae scrubber into the overflow.
The first idea is to cap off the main siphon line so that the horizontal pipe becomes the algae scrubber line.

However, capping it may cause too much flow over the scrubber, so I think it may be better to leave the drop pipe in place but add a valve to control the back pressure of flow over the scrubber.

Thinking this could work. The overflow will be pushing a very decent amount of GPH, more then enough for a scrubber from what I've read! If I can fine tune it, adding a scrubber should be an easy modification.
I can light both sides of the scrubber conveniently by adding some reflective clamp on lamps on the sides of the tank walls.
Just an idea!
Is this the same section (for the algae scrubber) as the skimmer?? Are you planning on one or the other, or both (skimmer and AS)? I am not sure if you would have enough room for both.
Fantastic work on the drawings BTW. Real nice work.
FWIW, I would go with the largest tank possible to fit my area for my sump, and then put the fuge in the same tank. But there are lots of ways to skin a cat.
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Sweatervest, thanks for the input. I have an undersized 65-gallon rated skimmer that I will eventually replace if I need to, but right now its' the one thing I decided not to upgrade. I was going to run the skimmer with an algae scrubber. It looks the the algae scrubber would more then make up for the under-rated skimmer.
About 5 min ago I discovered the newer Upflow Algae Scrubber design. I think I like this idea 100x better then the waterfall design. Bubbles are better then splashing!
I'm not sure which one I will do, but I think the underwater would be better. I can move it where I want in the sump and still have room for the skimmer as well.
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393789/separate-refugium-and-sump#post_3504632
A "breather" I was referring to would be nothing more than a "T" placed in your drain line with a little extension pipe coming up to let the air escape the line.....
Ok.. that makes sense. I'm going to dry plumb it all hopefully this week and so a test of the overflow. I'll see how that goes and see if this will be necessary. The reason I installed the beananimal was to run it dead quiet. However I was just thinking that if I do a waterfall algae scrubber, it kinda of defeats the purpose.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I decided on the design as well for quietness, but most of all and probably the biggest feature to me it's easily tunable, and can handle any flow range you want to throw at it......
 
marvelfan

marvelfan

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT8 http:///t/393789/separate-refugium-and-sump#post_3505393
What program do you guys use for those awesome drawings ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393789/separate-refugium-and-sump#post_3505429
I think most use Sketchup
Yup. Sketchup. Once you get use to it you can pretty much quickly draw anything to scale. Very useful to estimate build costs. I'll be using it to plan out my algae scrubber next. I even tried to plan out my aquascaping for a brief moment. Except I decided measuring dry rock and creating virtual pieces from it was not worth the time.
There are a ton of tutorials on youtube that teach you how to use it if your interested.
 
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